Help on amps!

[peachmonkey]

Yup,staying in sabah. But will be coming down to KL next weekend to visit my grandma :p
The stuff in brothers good or not? So far have heard lots of complaints about them. But if I'm doing my own installation shouldn't be a problem right?

When you say the amps will go to protect what do you mean? Something like it will auto-shutdown?
For the amp powering the sub it should be a higher power rating than the sub right? Will that prevent it from overheating?

If I can't find any good HU in KK I might do my shopping in KL next week.

 

[Izso]

rf_Accord : it depends on what type of sub you are using.

500watts for 2ohms.

dual DVC 12". What did you wire the sub to? Let's say your sub are DVC 2ohm and you wire both at 1ohm, meaning if you put both subs in series you'll get total 2ohm.

Which means you're powering your subs (both) at 500watts.

If you wire both subs at 4ohm and connect both subs in parallel oso gets you 2ohms which is also 500watts.

All depends on what you're sub rating is like.

 

[Izso]

peachmonkey, I heard east malaysia can get alpines much cheaper than west malaysia. Why don't you check the prices first before you decide to buy in KL!

 

[peachmonkey]

Alpine cheaper in east m'sia? Hmm...I never really noticed that. Than again I was never really into ICE till one month ago :p

Hrmm...the important thing in getting a HU is that is has a 3-way output right? Anything else?

 

[Izso]

peachmonkey, not every hu has 3-way. Some have 4. But that's super rare. Anyway, check that the pre-out is at least 4v. Anything less don't buy it. You'll regret like mad.

 

[kyheng]

Brothers only know how to change HU from original HU with the speakers wires unchange. This is their standard, anything more than that like adding an amp or others they sure fail.
When the amp go to protect means there is short circuit or the amp overheated. When this happens the amp will shutdown itself, after sometime it can be on back again.
Anyway you can do a quick check on Alpine HU on Sabah like Izso said. Look at their website, this year models all comes with mp3 but some still 1 pre-out. But don't compare Pioneer with Alpine for the price with mp3 and 3 pre-outs.
Pioneer only supply 2.2V for its pre-out, not like Alpine gives 4v. If lower supply voltage, the amp gain have to set more and this can cause airplane sound if the amp not earth properly. Anyway this is not a big problem.

 

[DJThoRmented]

peach: Don't fall to the good side of the force too soon. Plan your way and the force will lead to the dark side.

If your initial plan is to get a new Head Unit, good. Stay with it. Don't make sudden moves or the Jedi council will regret you joining them (ha ha). Get the Head Unit, install and hear the outcome. Any difference you find, if yes then good. If no then why go on.

Like I said before. Live with what you have and do the best of it.

Once you are ready for an amp, look for a bridgable 4 channel amp and please no cap ayam. Seconds are good too.

Why I say 4 channel bridgable, well its just because you can fondle around with it. You'll have a lot of ways wiring. Example:
2 channel for front & 2 channel for rear
2 channel for mids & 2 channel for tweets
2 channel for components & 2 (bridged) channel for sub

From there you will learn the varieties you have. From there you will know also your head unit capabilities even more. From there you will know the matching of this slope/dB/and so on. From there you will know the nature of the dark side of the force (sorry can't help it ).

So please, carefully plan your journey.


As for your question, my XO is limited to a 3 way because of its features. It only has 3 pairs of RCA output (tweets/high, mids/band, subs/low). So I'm only settle with a 3-way XO. While some other XO goes far until I don't know what way already.
So its, 3 lobang, 3 jalan la.
Lebih lobang, lebih jalan la but frankly 3 lobang only works... mouth, pu$$y & arseh()le he he he...

If you buy a component set, why la want to waste money and buy another set of tweeters. Remember the word TEST before you purchase. Eh, nowdays look for wife also we test first you know... ha ha ha...

Ok lah talk too much bore others.

So conclusion/morale of the story is, Plan you way and lead yourself to the dark side of the force and only then can we RULE the galaxy (sorry just can't help it again)

 

[peachmonkey]

Ok guys...I went to a car acc shop just now (after work) to survey the HU that they have available. They had only a single Pioneer HU available (Pioneer 2750).
I checked with the seller,he said it only had 2-preouts (high & low) and can only plug 1 RCA. He said that if want to connect to an amp,I need to use a splitter (not sure what that is). Btw,he didn't understand when I used the word 'pre-out'. Is there another term for it?

Ok,now I'm quite confused. The 3-pre outs that we've been talking about, one for high,band and low, do they go directly to the amp or speakers? What about the wires from the mids,tweeters and sub. Where do they go? And the XO? Sorry for the extremely n00bish question. A jedi must master his way slowly before achieving glory (aiyak,infected by DJThor!)

Izso,the pre-out voltage must not be less than 4V? If less what are the implications? Aeroplane noise like kyheng mentioned ar? But what if there's non that's less than 4V,is there a way to counter this 'tragedy'?
Btw,most of the alpine in the shop I went only had 1 pre-out. Price ranging from rm699 onwards...*shivers* :p

Any advise how to proceed? I'll be looking at more stores on saturday though.

 

[peachmonkey]

Dear msater jedi DJThor,
Hahah! Sorry I can't imitate the talk of the jedi. Have to dig back my starwars collection before I can start talking like that! :p

Thanks for the advise. Am looking around for a good/decent HU now. When I start digging in the amp market I'll holler out again!

 

[Zenn]

that pioneer only has 1 set of pre out (1 pair of rca). depending on your 4 ch amp, u may or may not need the splitter thing (we call it Y-cable), or maybe he means 2/3 way electronic crossover (one pair rca in - 2 or 3 pairs rca out). XO (crossovers) come in between HU & amp(s), after the amp then the wires go to all the speakers. for the moment dont worry about pre-out voltage, your amp has a gain/level knob to adjust for this. the advantage of high voltage pre out is stronger signal = cleaner sound, and minimum gain on amp = better sound.

 

[peachmonkey]

Hmm...so even with 1-preout it can be split into 3 after going through an XO? So what's the advantage of getting a HU with 3-preouts? No need for an XO?

The guy in the shop told me that its hard to find a unit with 3-preouts now. But he didn't really understand when I said 'pre-out'. Is there a different term or was I using it wrongly?

If say I get a HU with 2-preouts,mids and sub,what will power the tweeters? The XO? Or the amp? How will the connection go from there? It's hard to imagine really :p

 

[kyheng]

Told you already what. Alpine is not your brand unless you are going for high end. Pre-out also they don't understand? Wah like that also can open a shop... Anyway you can use term RCA output, RCA pre-out and so on. Seems like most of the Sabah shop is outdated. If still cannot get I think you can try in KL.

The 3 pre-outs is go to amp first, then from amp to speakers. If you have a HU with 3 pre-outs, then you no need to have XO already unless your ears can differentiate between 10hz and 15hz from the speakers. Just say a HU with 1 pre-out cost rm700 and the XO is rm400 or more(cheap one guarantee give airplane sound), the total is rm1100. With this money you can get a good HU already.

My HU only supply 2.2v only but no problem at all. Only the amp have to work harder for the 1.8v. Anyway now got some airplane sound because of changing a new amp myself and caused short circuit to the HU until it got no proper earthing.

For Pioneer 5750 the 3pre-out are front+rear+sub/non fading. When select f+r+s is the sub volume is follow rear. When select f+r+n is the sub volume will not change, is constant.

If you looking for decent HU with price of 1k, you can try 7750, the display is total blue.

The splitter or Y-cable can be use for a HU with 1 pre-out, but you totally got no control for your speakers and sub volume, all follow the same setting by your HU. Anyway this gadget acc. shop selling for rm20-30(so called for car use, heat resistant), but when go to eletronic shop same thing, but selling for rm4 the most..

Anyway if your car don't have any amps yet you can try in Lelong, look for Hiap Seng, selling all the high end brands but with cheap price compare to shops. Only they don't have serial nos.

 

[RF_Accord]

Hi Izso,
Thanks for d advice. After checking the spec., my DVC subs are 4 ohm each coil. So, actually I've already wasted my monoblock capacity (300wx1@4ohm; 600wx1@2ohm) because I wired the 2 DVC to achieve 4ohm only. Does that mean I pumped 300w to each sub? or only 150w to each sub?

BTW, bro peach, I've one mono block used for only 2 months. Are you interested? It's RF BD500.1 with original certificate.

 

[peachmonkey]

So if I get a HU with 3-preouts I wouldn't need an XO? How big is the difference of sound at 10Hz and 15Hz? Is it really that noticeable? If I get a HU with only 2-preouts,that means I need an XO before hooking it up to my amp correct?
So with a 3-preout HU I don't need an XO at all?

If the amp is working extra to supply the 1.8V,will it effect the amp on the long run? Overheat quickly or damaged? Is it possible to get a HU with a higher preout voltage than 2.2V which is not alpine?

I'm hoping to keep things simple,no usage of splitters & preamps. I've heard people using equalizers,what are these? Don't they have this built in the HU?
If do manage to get the 5750 I should set it to front+rear+non-fading correct? This way the sub volume won't change right?

Btw,is there any other brand I can look at besides pioneer? Seems not much choice here. There have lots of sony players though.

RF_accord,thanks for the offer but a monoblock is one of the last things on my list. I need to change my HU,get an amp to power my mids,than get a monoblock and sub. Plus I don't have much background on ICE so I figure this might take a while.
Thanks anyway!

 

[kyheng]

As I said before, we cannot differentiate between 5hz unless using equipment to test it or your ear is very sensitive. If you only can get a HU with 2 pre-outs, is not a big problem after all, as 1 is meant for sub and 1 is for speakers. You really only need 3 is when you have 2 and 2 rear speakers and a sub, for better control of your fader on speakers.
You need a pre-amp or XO only when your HU have 1 pre-out.
Sorry to say is Pioneer, Kenwood or Sony(middle class HUs) cannot give you high pre-out V compare to Alpine and Eclipse, if not there's no money gap between them. Anyway it won't effect much on the amps. Only the signal from HU to amp might lost abit say supply 10hz, reach amp only have 6-7hz due to resistance on the RCA cable. Can you differentiate them? I cannot. Maybe Alpine is 7-8hz when reach amp. 1 thing for sure is how good a RCA cable is there are still have some resistance unless you are using a pure gold RCA cable.
To make your system simple, the best is HU, amps, speakers and sub. This can let you easy to troubleshoot for airplane sound. What for you need a pre-amp or XO where your Hu got 2 or 3 pre-outs?
If you manage to get 5750 that is the best setting for it.
Sony don't try to think of it, as the lense very fast spoiltand the problem start's to come out after warranty finished, Kenwood and JVC I used it before, not bad but don't know why people don't like it now.
Anyway I'm a middle end user, maybe will consider Alpine or Eclipse if got money to waste latter on.

 

[peachmonkey]

Right than...tomorrow will check out a few more shops around my area. Hopefully they'll have much more choices than the shop I went yesterday.
Hrmm,so getting a 2-preout HU isn't so bad also. Only problem is when I want to install rear speakers right? If that's the case would I need a splitter? Or will a 4channel amp be able to handle both front and rear speakers and the tweeters?

Btw,this 'aeroplane sound' thingy. What izzit actually? Static? Sounds like the real aeroplane with the loud noise and all?

 

[kyheng]

You have a 4 channel and your Hu only have 2 pre-outs. That's the time you need a Y cable to split. This can solve your problem also, only the speakers volume you have to set from the amp's gain. Is abit more troublesome, but still can work.

This airplane sound is a sound that we don't want in ICE. This is cause by few problems: wiring, cheap components(pre-amp, XO) used and so on. That's why I encourage you to install your ICE as simple as possible. It can be loud or slow depend on the problem.
Anyway need your help you say yesterday got 1 Alpine with 1 pre-out is 699, can I know what is the model, is without mp3? Want to compare abit between Sabah and Seremban.

 

[peachmonkey]

No mp3. Just single disc CD player. Not quite sure what model number it is but the shopkeeper said it's one of the low end alpine HU. I'll go and check the model number later. :p

Hrrm...so if I manage to get a 3-preout HU,I won't need a splitter when I get a 4channel amp right? XO and electronic crossovers are only used when your HU has 1-preout right? Hmm...I think I'm getting the picture now! :)

 

[kyheng]

Anyway no need to get the model no only need to know is it have mp3 function, guess also can know is low end. XO and e-crossover are same thing. Lunch time liao....

 

[DJThoRmented]

look for this:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4039_63891896,00.html

Download the manual, i think it shows you 3 preout and the unit will solve your voltage problem