Good job taiko!
Need help on upgrade of system
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anyway what head unit you using now??...hehehehhhehehe........ ya lorr....more budget for the amps la.....but head unit also must be good la......hehehehhe
Zenn said:
And btw bro...
i checked out in their web that the optimum power is 300w.
Should i provide more power than the optimum power recommended?
bcos if i am not mistaken i seen before that for a mid range speaker...we should provide more power than the power required...
am i correct?
Gti said:
Which 1 bro.. JLW6 or JLW6V2.
If JLW6 discontinued production long time ago.. since 2001 after JL intoduce JLW6V2 in that year.. JLW6 ori is DVC '6+6Ohm' 300wrms, 'beware fake product' loor.. U need monoblock 300-400wrms at 3Ohm technically loorr or above 600wrms at 12Ohm (A/B) woorr....
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the more power can make the speaker feeling more fierce.Gti said:
but before that u need to scooping for the speaker if not there will be overload.
my mid range speaker handling power is around 80-120 but i use more than 250watts to push it
oldskolboyz said:
It's the old JLw6
I went to CV the other day and they gave me a 'special' price for it maybe bcos it's old stuff.
And i dun think so CV will sell fake stuff la...haha
and yes...it's a dvc that's y i said need monoblock...
but the question is will it need to be 'overpushed' (i donno the correct term la)
and btw...will the w6 be too strong for a hatchback?
eh....anyone can teach me how to differentiate ori and fake jl woofer?
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Pegasus_waja said:
wah ur car memang keng...
but will the same theory apply to a woofer leh?
and...what is scooping..? haha...sorry...i donno...
all these u done urself or u go to some sifu like CV or KF?
and how much had u spent to ur car leh?
subwoofer theory "Damping Factor" , look higher damping factor and more "norminal power " "rms"
pagasus waja, u use 250rms for mid??!! so geng , what amp are u using??
fake JL? u want can come to see this saturday tt at serdang
pagasus waja, u use 250rms for mid??!! so geng , what amp are u using??
fake JL? u want can come to see this saturday tt at serdang
Pegasus_waja said:
No harm to do that coz U can control the signal at your amp gain loorr... for me it just wasted pwr if your are in 'full active set-up' but very good if your are in 'passive set-up'.
Scooping, as I know from HU until amp output only (speaker terminal) not speaker laa..
Gti said:
for subs usually i like double the rms rating but below the max rating...
u dont really need a monoblock since its 3ohm, i think 2ch amp also can oledi, just check the bridge power at 4ohm is around there, 3ohm will be 50% extra power
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Pegasus_waja said:
Its not all abuot power. You can play with efficientcy. How do you get high efficientc???? You play with the box volume.
Scopping is for amp clipping. For sub to be overpowered, you can see it or hear it without glasses.
More power = more heat. All those power will not be turned to music, because some of it will generate heat. Manufacturer usually rate their rms by thermal power handling. Thats why you get burned speakers.
hi1983 : care to explain more bout the meaning of damping factor?
oldskolboyz : i still dun understand bout what is scooping....
Zenn : if u say double the optimum power is good....does that means i will need 600w rms from my amp or something like that? Cos...i dun really understnd all those 'ohm' stuffs la....can put it in simpler term?
appleyard : what is play with box volume?
sorry ar all sifu....still trying to learn....
oldskolboyz : i still dun understand bout what is scooping....
Zenn : if u say double the optimum power is good....does that means i will need 600w rms from my amp or something like that? Cos...i dun really understnd all those 'ohm' stuffs la....can put it in simpler term?
appleyard : what is play with box volume?
sorry ar all sifu....still trying to learn....
Gti said:
1. Damping factor usually exist in amp not speaker.
2. Usually you get +3dB when you double the power, but if you push your sub beyonds its rated RMS power, then be prepared to have a blown out sub. Not many sub can take more than their rated power. It also depends on application i.e the box you put it in. Unless you are talking about underrated sub like the type R then dont even try to push 1/4 over its RMS rating.
3. Box volume = the size of your enclosure. Read on Hoffman Iron Law.
4. Read the Ohm Law and series and parallel wiring.
Gti said:
damping factor of an amp, the higher the better, more dynamic and faster response for bass, better control..
scoping is when u use an oscilloscope to set the gains of your amp, done by some installers only...
lower the ohm, the higher the power from the amp, ohm is the rating of voicecoil impedance, when there is 2 voice coil (DVC) there are 2 ways to wire them to get different impedance. if your sub is 300W rms i would feed it around 500W
diff box volume will give diff sub bass characteristics, for me go as big as i possible but practical, usually more than the manufacturers recommendation.
can i ask how do we do damping on the amp?
can it be DIY?
or it needs to be done by pro installer?
Zenn & appleyard taiko: if u say we feed it at 500w rms...that would contradict with what appleyard says....1\4 of the recommended rate.
Or issit diff school of thought?
or had i misunderstood anything?
can it be DIY?
or it needs to be done by pro installer?
Zenn & appleyard taiko: if u say we feed it at 500w rms...that would contradict with what appleyard says....1\4 of the recommended rate.
Or issit diff school of thought?
or had i misunderstood anything?
Copied from DD website
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY GO PORTED?
Efficiency is the easiest one word reason for choosing ported over a sealed box. Everything is better with a little efficiency sprinkled on it. Ask any motor builder what they would do to a motor if it were theirs and they'd say turbo charge it! What does turbo charging do for an engine? It raises the efficiency. Why not apply this same thing to your audio system. Making the most out of the air space you have for a subwoofer enclosure, is the first step in raising the efficiency of your system. This means that you will utilize this space in the most efficient manner possible.
Designing a ported a.k.a. vented enclosure will not only give you added output, but can give you more low-frequency extension. This means louder and lower! Since the speaker system is the least efficient part of the whole audio chain, would it not make sense to make it as efficient as possible? Of coarse it does.
MORE SOUND, BETTER BASS
This is why venting is basically free output, and free sound quality. Local shops tell you that a small sealed box is the best way to go? Hit up your local hi-end home audio store and find out how many of those $20,000.00 pairs of speakers are sealed designs. You won't find many. Think efficiency as you read up in the DD tutorial section, this will help you clear all of that smoke out of your eyes that most car audio manufacturers have been pumping all along.
HOW DOES A PORT WORK
Think of a box port not as a vent in the terms of a venting path for air to travel into and out of a box, but rather as extra cone area that is propagating acoustic energy from the enclosure to the cabin. The air in a port is fixed; it is trapped within the confines of the port walls. When the cone moves there is a corresponding change to the pressure in the box, that pressure change then causes the trapped air in the port to move either forward or backward. It moves as a solid unit, just like a speaker cone does.
MORE RADIATING AREA
A passive radiator and a vented port work on the same theory. When a port mass moves back and forth, a pressure wave (sound wave) is sent into the cabin. The larger the port, the larger the radiating area is that creates the pressure. Tuning a port is tuning the mass of the trapped air in the port to the air mass in the box volume.
For all out no holds barred SPL efficiency, rule of thumb is the larger the box, the higher the output. The larger the box, the larger the ports can be for a given frequency tuning range. There is no substitute for cubic inches. Drivers like our 9500 series can achieve high efficiency in moderate sized vented enclosures (3 to 4 cubic feet) but will continue to increase in output with increase in volume and port size. Multiple drivers in such enclosures can yield a frightening amount of output and should be used with caution.
THE RIGHT PORT AREA, THE DD PORT
Most modeling programs that simulate box responses were written for home audio use. They are not suited for high output systems. The port area defaults are inadequate. The port area must be commensurate with cone area. If the port velocity gets too high, the port no longer functions as a port, you end up with a leaky sealed box, double bad.
Lets say we have a 12 inch speaker in a box, roughly 100 sqin of surface area. Many programs and manufacturer sites will suggest a 4" diameter port for a 12" vented box. A 4" diameter port has about 12 sqin of area. This is about an 8-1 ratio of cone area to port area. If the 12 inch cone moves 0.25", the port must move 2.0". It can handle this, but when the cone is moving 1.0", the port must move 8 inches! Now you've got a leaky sealed box.
You need more port area for a clean sounding, high output system. The DD port formula is this: 16 sqin of port area per cubic foot of box volume. The port should be 16 inches long. Remember, the port is tuned to the box volume, not the sub(s).
This formula was derived from 1000s of hours of in-car testing and 1000s of installs. It works. It takes into account the need for increasing port area for increasing cone area. When combined with our DD subwoofer box requirements, you'll end up with the perfect match.
VARIABLE PORT TUNING
The DD design philosophy of low moving mass, well controlled suspension and strong, linear magnetic systems allow the user many design applications never realized with traditional speakers. The growing popularity of the SPL competitions has led to new engineering requirements for an audio system. DD subs are ideally suited for both all out SPL vehicles and daily driver vehicles where high SPL and good sounds are required. The problem lies in the fact that the frequencies where a vehicles peak SPL may occur rarely ever coincide with a tuning frequency that promotes utmost sound quality. The peak SPL frequency is usually somewhat higher that the tuning frequency for sound quality.
The use of a larger than normal port will allow the user to find the cars peak frequency for greatest SPL. Reducing the port opening will lower the box tuning frequency and provide loading to the woofer over a wider bandwidth. This will improve the transient response and impact of the system. The higher tuning frequency redirects the woofers radiating energy into a narrow band which when tuned to coincide with the vehicles peaks can yield dramatic SPL numbers. The focus of attention here should be to tune the system to each application. Although the general box recommendation will yield very satisfying results, competing at the highest levels of SPL or SQ contests, or simply yielding the best possible results are directly related to methodical tuning.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY GO PORTED?
Efficiency is the easiest one word reason for choosing ported over a sealed box. Everything is better with a little efficiency sprinkled on it. Ask any motor builder what they would do to a motor if it were theirs and they'd say turbo charge it! What does turbo charging do for an engine? It raises the efficiency. Why not apply this same thing to your audio system. Making the most out of the air space you have for a subwoofer enclosure, is the first step in raising the efficiency of your system. This means that you will utilize this space in the most efficient manner possible.
Designing a ported a.k.a. vented enclosure will not only give you added output, but can give you more low-frequency extension. This means louder and lower! Since the speaker system is the least efficient part of the whole audio chain, would it not make sense to make it as efficient as possible? Of coarse it does.
MORE SOUND, BETTER BASS
This is why venting is basically free output, and free sound quality. Local shops tell you that a small sealed box is the best way to go? Hit up your local hi-end home audio store and find out how many of those $20,000.00 pairs of speakers are sealed designs. You won't find many. Think efficiency as you read up in the DD tutorial section, this will help you clear all of that smoke out of your eyes that most car audio manufacturers have been pumping all along.
HOW DOES A PORT WORK
Think of a box port not as a vent in the terms of a venting path for air to travel into and out of a box, but rather as extra cone area that is propagating acoustic energy from the enclosure to the cabin. The air in a port is fixed; it is trapped within the confines of the port walls. When the cone moves there is a corresponding change to the pressure in the box, that pressure change then causes the trapped air in the port to move either forward or backward. It moves as a solid unit, just like a speaker cone does.
MORE RADIATING AREA
A passive radiator and a vented port work on the same theory. When a port mass moves back and forth, a pressure wave (sound wave) is sent into the cabin. The larger the port, the larger the radiating area is that creates the pressure. Tuning a port is tuning the mass of the trapped air in the port to the air mass in the box volume.
For all out no holds barred SPL efficiency, rule of thumb is the larger the box, the higher the output. The larger the box, the larger the ports can be for a given frequency tuning range. There is no substitute for cubic inches. Drivers like our 9500 series can achieve high efficiency in moderate sized vented enclosures (3 to 4 cubic feet) but will continue to increase in output with increase in volume and port size. Multiple drivers in such enclosures can yield a frightening amount of output and should be used with caution.
THE RIGHT PORT AREA, THE DD PORT
Most modeling programs that simulate box responses were written for home audio use. They are not suited for high output systems. The port area defaults are inadequate. The port area must be commensurate with cone area. If the port velocity gets too high, the port no longer functions as a port, you end up with a leaky sealed box, double bad.
Lets say we have a 12 inch speaker in a box, roughly 100 sqin of surface area. Many programs and manufacturer sites will suggest a 4" diameter port for a 12" vented box. A 4" diameter port has about 12 sqin of area. This is about an 8-1 ratio of cone area to port area. If the 12 inch cone moves 0.25", the port must move 2.0". It can handle this, but when the cone is moving 1.0", the port must move 8 inches! Now you've got a leaky sealed box.
You need more port area for a clean sounding, high output system. The DD port formula is this: 16 sqin of port area per cubic foot of box volume. The port should be 16 inches long. Remember, the port is tuned to the box volume, not the sub(s).
This formula was derived from 1000s of hours of in-car testing and 1000s of installs. It works. It takes into account the need for increasing port area for increasing cone area. When combined with our DD subwoofer box requirements, you'll end up with the perfect match.
VARIABLE PORT TUNING
The DD design philosophy of low moving mass, well controlled suspension and strong, linear magnetic systems allow the user many design applications never realized with traditional speakers. The growing popularity of the SPL competitions has led to new engineering requirements for an audio system. DD subs are ideally suited for both all out SPL vehicles and daily driver vehicles where high SPL and good sounds are required. The problem lies in the fact that the frequencies where a vehicles peak SPL may occur rarely ever coincide with a tuning frequency that promotes utmost sound quality. The peak SPL frequency is usually somewhat higher that the tuning frequency for sound quality.
The use of a larger than normal port will allow the user to find the cars peak frequency for greatest SPL. Reducing the port opening will lower the box tuning frequency and provide loading to the woofer over a wider bandwidth. This will improve the transient response and impact of the system. The higher tuning frequency redirects the woofers radiating energy into a narrow band which when tuned to coincide with the vehicles peaks can yield dramatic SPL numbers. The focus of attention here should be to tune the system to each application. Although the general box recommendation will yield very satisfying results, competing at the highest levels of SPL or SQ contests, or simply yielding the best possible results are directly related to methodical tuning.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Gti said:
1. Yes you can if you are an amplifier manufacturer. You can set what how much damping you want. But if you are not then its suppose to come with the amp like a package.
2. What I meant is if you have a sub with 500w rms you wouldnt want to power it more than 625w rms (rule of the thumb) unless its proven that the sub can withstand the abuse and you have good ventilation of the voice coil. But thats also depended on application. Sealed has poor cooling system for sub. Ported are efficient and if you push too hard you'll get a blown sub. There are a lot of variables to be considered but play by the rule if you are not sure and stay with the RMS rating.
appleyard said:
ok point taken.Thanx a lot.
Another thing is...can any sifu give me the correct setting for a 2 way system?
The current setting:
Amp of component speakers: Gain = 70%
Bass = 60%
Treble = 50%
Crossover: Mid Bass = 150hz
Sub = 100hz
can anyone tell me if there's anything wrong with the current setting?
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