Pak Lah bashed Proton??

[imoloq]

well regarding the quality segment of problems with proton, here is an insider story, no solid reference on how true is this, but anyhow i leak here just as an example:

the infamous of proton accessories that annoyed all pre or post proton cars owners -- the power window actuator. proton QC management had aware of this QC issue long before our time, they had managed to get another supplier B that supplies better quality actuator but due to some "political" decision within the management level, they insist on vendor A so happened that is low/bad quality goods supplied, despite of higher price than B.

as i mentioned before, decisions makers is playing the games here, depends on which level we are pointing fingers at, of course I could not totally dismiss other aspect like marketing, design, R&D that might not did a very good job.

the end result to the market actually is decisive by the upper management on what to put in the ingredient to final productions no matter how well they done in those test they had done including to get TUV certified and ISO stuff.

2 cents down the table.

sigh.....how did they ever get past TUV certification?

 

[davidv00]

how they get TUV? haha... that is simple.

i will send in my 6 months highly maintained flawless car to be inspected at Germany while back in my garage, i stuff third grade stuff for our fellow bolehlanders. lolx....

haha... this one just as fun, not going to create rumors here.

 

[xin]

thats y we can see UK specs and full specs car is better lol ..

 

[BlackSamurai]

edit: I am aware that they have been making a loss for sometime, btw. But nonetheless I believe they are trying to turn the tables, and even appointed perodua's ceo sometime ago


Once again: Im not supporting Proton. Im just saying "If you want to bash Proton, atleast make sense with it lah, given the type of operations they conduct. "

Just my opinion ok, Im too lazy to make anymore arguments out of it already.

We are not argue here.

I believe you are referring to [SIZE=-1]Syed Zainal Abidin Mohamed Tahir, Managing Director of Proton.
If I'm not mistaken, Proton is now CEO-less after [/SIZE]Tengku Mahaleel Ariff's [SIZE=-1]CEO contract expired.
He was from Perodua, but not Perodua CEO, but 1 of the Deputy MD.

Little profile about Syed Zainal Abidin Mohamed Tahir,
Source: paultan.org Perodua man for Proton CEO?

[/SIZE]

Proton Holdings Bhd may appoint Syed Zainal Abidin Mohamed Tahir as the new chief executive officer of the company, replacing former CEO Tengku Mahaleel Ariff. Zainal Abidin is currently the deputy managing director of Perusahaan Otomobil Nasional Bhd. (Perodua) and one of the four executive directors of Perodua Auto Corporation, the 49%-owned manufacturing arm of Perusahaan Otomobil Kedua Sdn Bhd (Perodua) and whose other shareholders are Daihatsu Motor Co Ltd (41%) and Mitsui & Co Ltd (10%).

Zainal Abidin used to work in Proton’s manufacturing division during the group’s early years of operation. He later joined Malaysian Trucks and Bus Sdn. Bhd, rised through the ranks to become CEO and moved on the Perodua to become it’s head of production.

He is indeed head of Production in Perodua before he become DMP, he shall have sufficient knowledge and experience to turn Proton production to deliver better quality.

An Article from Jeff Ooi
Source: http://www.jeffooi.com/2007/02/3_consecutive_quarterly_losses.php

And Proton Managing Director Syed Zainal Abidin Syed Mohamed Tahir is again reciting his old tune. "The next 12 months will see a better Proton,'' he said in a statement yesterday.

Total Proton bashing may not be right, but it really shows how we Malaysian lost our patient with Proton, after 20 years, Proton still sucking more money from us and continue deliver product that give us problem. It was like we have been cheated front and back. And Proton people thinks that they have all the rights to demand more money from government.


Talking about TUV, didn't you all notice that the first (and only?) Proton car with TUV certification, Savvy, the TUV badge is no longer appeal on "facelit"ed Savvy.

 

[minivan]

Proton was doomed from day 1. It was a noble enuf ambition (At that time ler!!). But Proton failed because of economies of scale, or the lack of it that is. What people haven't seen is Tun's vision for the national car was also related to his vision of wanting 60 million Malaysian citizen.

Because, for the local car market to thrive, it needed strong domestic sales (even in Proton's hay days, it wasn't enuf!). With strong domestic sales, you could 1) Generate more money and put it into R&D (needed in today's cut throat market) and 2) u could start benefiting from economies of scale, which would first mean bigger margin (for R&D and expansion), then later, cheaper cars!!!

For those who don't know how economies of scales works:
Its a numbers game. Just imagine Proton in its hay days sold some what 200,000 - 300, 000 cars a year. Toyota sold some 300,000 Corollas worldwide alone within the same period. This is how it works.... Toyota orders a couple million steering wheels, proton orders 200,000.... who's gonna get the bigger discount?? Multiply that with the thousands of components a car has... Who gets to enjoy the bigger margins and is able to put much much much much more into R&D??

 

[davidv00]

continue the discussion...

well, the population also plays a role. Toyota is from Japan and now still they are number 1 in Japan... surprisingly number 1 at US last year. Hyundai yet another success story.

in order of Malaysia have X amount of population, it also means that the people should afford to raise many children. yet some wrong idea of policies keeping the growth of population, it sounds like poking on our own feet to me.

2 cents on populations

 

[minivan]

Yeah true, agreed... Tun shot himslef in the foot when he championed this. He was overly ambitious with what he wanted to do with the country... a lot of things didn't work out... but, give him some credit la, people know Malaysia because of him, eventhough not in all the proper ways... heheh..

 

[Zeroed]

I believe you are referring to Syed Zainal Abidin Mohamed Tahir, Managing Director of Proton.

Ah, sorry. I forgot all the whatever positions there are or whatever names they have. Shows that I couldnt care less about Proton. But I just cant stand senseless bashing sometimes when Im in the wrong mood. I do respect that MD fella though, with what he did to Perodua. Seems like he cant do the same for Proton however, given all the 'other factors' that he has to consider.

I guess its true la when you say that people are tired of getting indirectly cheated/robbed again and again... until they have completely loss faith in Proton, hence all the criticism for every single thing they do.

But oh well, I dont drive a Proton so, whatever lah. Tax money has to be paid regardless of it going to Proton or not after all.

 

[HKS-GT2835R]

enuff crap, sell 'em!
either that or they need to close shop.

 

[xin]

Proton gonna sell off? dream for it hehe ..with gov's support and with our citizens tax ..how can Proton close shop ehehhe ...

 

[FVel]

Let's not talk confuse the issue with talk that Malaysians should support their national car maker.

Let's just for a moment concentrate purely on the perspective that this is a company with 20+ years protectionalism, privileged treatment and husbanding from the govt. and they still manage to make a right mess out of it.

Don't forget how dissapointed Tun Mahatir was with Proton during Mahaleel's sacking and his dispoleasure regarding the sale of Agusta. Till this day, there had been no satisfactory answer given by Proton management as to why Agusta was sold off for 1 Euro.

You get a car company with a product line and sales performance that is soundly beaten by Perodua (the new kid on the block) despite claims that some of the products are enginneered with the help of Lotus (anyone still remember the comment by management about the Savvy being a Lotus? Laughable, considering the Myvi managed to kick the Savvy's ass in terms of sales)

And what exactly is Lotus's role in Proton ? I mean it's all well and good to have acquired one of the most recognizable names in motoring but how exactly has all that translated to us local car consumers ? Proton likes to trumpet the fact that they own Lotus but I see barely anything of Lotus in the product line. To everyday Malaysians, it's still a Proton (with all the negativity you would associate with the brand).

Are Proton cars really affordable ? In a sense.....they are inxpensive but only compared to foreign brands and that's because foreign brands are taxed out of all proportion by import duties. So it's not really a fair comparison. In short, Proton makes some of the most expensive crappy cars and accessories and we Malaysians just have to deal with it. Recently I wanted to buy some 14" Proton rims for the Iswara (essentially these rims are made for Proton by JRD) and the non-negotiable price is RM1,300+ ....would you pay RM1,300+ for JRD rims ? I don't think so considering there are good aftermarket rims for much less. Hell, even BSA makes a nice 14" rim for only RM700+

Way to go Proton.

 

[davidv00]

agreed with your say fvel, the first step decides the future. Proton started the business wrongly and end up like pale of shit now.

if proton start off with a fresh image and do the business in the right ways (no husbanding, protection, quotas .... etc kinda of craps) perhaps today its already a successful company, maybe not international but at least wont get spitted by own countrymen.

ashame of you proton.

*note: damn, i am still ride on proton... what the fuck! i m rich or wat?

 

[xin]

Proton started off with a good support from MMC .. but after the MMC-PROTON era which the 20years contract over ..it starts to fall apart.. they did not troubleshoot or revaluate ..thus the outcome now is expected le

 

[imoloq]

Let's not talk confuse the issue with talk that Malaysians should support their national car maker.

Let's just for a moment concentrate purely on the perspective that this is a company with 20+ years protectionalism, privileged treatment and husbanding from the govt. and they still manage to make a right mess out of it.

Don't forget how dissapointed Tun Mahatir was with Proton during Mahaleel's sacking and his dispoleasure regarding the sale of Agusta. Till this day, there had been no satisfactory answer given by Proton management as to why Agusta was sold off for 1 Euro.

You get a car company with a product line and sales performance that is soundly beaten by Perodua (the new kid on the block) despite claims that some of the products are enginneered with the help of Lotus (anyone still remember the comment by management about the Savvy being a Lotus? Laughable, considering the Myvi managed to kick the Savvy's ass in terms of sales)

And what exactly is Lotus's role in Proton ? I mean it's all well and good to have acquired one of the most recognizable names in motoring but how exactly has all that translated to us local car consumers ? Proton likes to trumpet the fact that they own Lotus but I see barely anything of Lotus in the product line. To everyday Malaysians, it's still a Proton (with all the negativity you would associate with the brand).

Are Proton cars really affordable ? In a sense.....they are inxpensive but only compared to foreign brands and that's because foreign brands are taxed out of all proportion by import duties. So it's not really a fair comparison. In short, Proton makes some of the most expensive crappy cars and accessories and we Malaysians just have to deal with it. Recently I wanted to buy some 14" Proton rims for the Iswara (essentially these rims are made for Proton by JRD) and the non-negotiable price is RM1,300+ ....would you pay RM1,300+ for JRD rims ? I don't think so considering there are good aftermarket rims for much less. Hell, even BSA makes a nice 14" rim for only RM700+

Way to go Proton.

Even though they claimed that Gen 2 or Savvy or whatever saloon cars of Proton had Lotus tuning and handling, it wouldn't matter much because how many people who buy those family cars are going to push it hard on the road or track? Lotus signifies handling and handling is hardly an issue Proton should be focusing on now. It would be better off if they partnered with Toyota. Reliability should be the main focus.

 

[satria_95]

So at the end of the day, proton should just close their sales division and maintain their service centers because if they don't maintain their service centers, I believe the higher management in proton would soon appear in the front page of news, being murdered.

 

[davidv00]

Even though they claimed that Gen 2 or Savvy or whatever saloon cars of Proton had Lotus tuning and handling, it wouldn't matter much because how many people who buy those family cars are going to push it hard on the road or track? Lotus signifies handling and handling is hardly an issue Proton should be focusing on now. It would be better off if they partnered with Toyota. Reliability should be the main focus.

agreed with you imolog, there are only a few of us push GEN.2 to the max on road and track, and proton has been diverted their focus to produce public cars than performance cars. ever since Satria GTi era, proton has been releasing "performance" sense type of cars, regardless its the design or the flesh under the hood.

Proton started off with a good support from MMC .. but after the MMC-PROTON era which the 20years contract over ..it starts to fall apart.. they did not troubleshoot or reevaluate ..thus the outcome now is expected le

their nose growth over their forehead i guess after MMC "helped" proton to be a sort of successful proton during the Mega valve time, until they forgot competitors and its "brother" (P2) until one fine day they lost its blood and flesh then only starting to regret. Chinese proverb pronounces "cry infront of coffin"... lolx:_:

 

[satria_95]

imoloq,
I tried the satria neo and the handling was shitty too. hahaha not just the whatever car they claim to have lotus tunings. haha

 

[minivan]

anyone still remember the comment by management about the Savvy being a Lotus?

It went something like... "My first Lotus", right??

If it was... hahahahahah....

 

[FVel]

agreed with your say fvel, the first step decides the future. Proton started the business wrongly and end up like pale of shit now.

if proton start off with a fresh image and do the business in the right ways (no husbanding, protection, quotas .... etc kinda of craps) perhaps today its already a successful company, maybe not international but at least wont get spitted by own countrymen.

ashame of you proton.

*note: damn, i am still ride on proton... what the fuck! i m rich or wat?

David,

Personally, I thought Tun Mahatir had the correct idea. I believe the national carmaker needed all the help it could get from the government to get started. Otherwise it would have been an impossible task just to get the necessary market share to build a solid foundation for the future.


Protectionalism in itself was not the problem. The problem is with the 'Boleh-lah, tidak-apa-lah' attitude that seems to be part of this country's work ethics.

Instead of using all those 20+ years of head-start help, Proton simply squandered away the opportunity. It got rich (for a while) collecting all those $$ from EON Finance but never really capitalize on it with some meaningful improvement. It just lived off the fat and when Perodua came in and when foreign brands started making a comeback, Proton found itself losing market share.

When was the last time you heard someone complain about Perodua quality. With Proton the complaints are practically endemic.

Now where is Proton ? ....in the red and desperately looking for a partner. What I find amusing is that they are still sticking to their guns, insisting on their terms. The truth is Proton has been snubbed by every prospective partner it has recently tried to court ......the latest of which is Volkswagon. Come on lah Proton...beggars can't be choosers. Don't la pretend as though you are negotiating from a position of strength. It is like a discarded bride still insisting on her beauty when she'll be lucky to find someone willing to go to bed with her.

By comparison Perodua runs a solid and tight ship, partnering with Daihatsu (major shareholder), and quietly go about their affairs with efficiency and more importantly, with tangible results. And all this as the new kid on the block.

 

[b00n]

basically that's the result of NATO (No Action Talk Only) organisation.
With visions and objectives but no one to run it towards the goal.............haihh...failure!!