V-tec Vs Mivec

[deacon]

N1 Pulsar VZR is a full tuned 300 units limited edition version.
However, with the same set up on B16B, winner still is Type R. This is because of B series engine have a lot of good aftermarket performance parts to support. Of coz, good tunning with performance will be the key to take the lead.

Conclusion : Good engine system + performace parts + tunning = Fastest car. = $$$$$

The comparison is stock for stock, not modified vs modified. READ: Factory built. Spoon, is not a factory that builds cars.

 

[JackWaiKit]

now got this thread?hahahaha...they vs on what meh?
yup vtec engine is much lighter..
mivec might wins in heavier engine..easier to BOT..hard to get heat (due to radiator much wider)..

Bump: now got this thread?hahahaha...they vs on what meh?
yup vtec engine is much lighter..
mivec might wins in heavier engine..easier to BOT..hard to get heat (due to radiator much wider)..

Both 1.6 block also an alloy block...ligthen...!!!
But Vtec is more on head hi cam function which have direct(single layer) response from cam to valve

But Mivec there is slower response of cam due to 2 layer of top, 1 layer is cam & another 1 layer is valve, spring...
It's more on piston/block compression power!

Bump:

Good reference material for everyone to see the stock for stock comparison.

Ek9 vs the N1 Pulsar VZR
http://asia.vtec.net/side/ek9vzr/index.html

In case you need video proof:-
Part 1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qnEV8_qangQ

Part 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YmLcfNYbYQE

Mivec vs Vtec vs 4AG 20v (sorta, comparison)
http://asia.vtec.net/side/cyborg/index.html

Haven't found video proof for the Mivec one though yet, guess it must be a real old BM video.

The video shows that that is B16B type R (185ps) vs Mivec 97' above cyborg & 4AGE...
Mivec 2nd edition is slower response than 1st version according my fren...correct me is I'm wrong:hmmmm:
But is compare with B16A, Mivec still not bad...
The price for Mivec is almost equal with B16A but not Type R...
Type more expensive leh!!!

 

[deacon]

The video that i posted is a race between the 200bhp N1 Pulsar 1.6 and the 185bhp Civic Type R 1.6.

The other articles i posted only compare the Cyborg ZR, Civic EG6 (B16A not B16B) and the Levin BZ-R. There was no video that i have posted or own where an EK9 goes up against the Levin or Cyborg ZR.

The last article is a competitive review between the Pulsar N1 and the Civic Type R.

Lastly, i always thought the CK Mivec engines were more potent than the CA Mivec engines. Just by virtue of the fact that the CK engines are younger in age.

By the way i never thought about the Mivec engine being two layer not one layer - good info!

The main differences between a 4G92 Mivec and B16A SIR (my opinion) was always the stock gearbox ratios. Most of the B16A ratios above 2nd gear are tighter than the 4G92 Mivec ratios, i think. I could be wrong...

Bump: Ah ha! I have found the gear ratios.

Mivec CJ4A
1 - 3.071
2 - 1.947
3 - 1.379
4 - 1.030
5 - 0.820
R - 3.363
Final drive - 4.625

Mivec CA4A
1 - 3.083
2 - 1.947
3 - 1.285
4 - 0.939
5 - 0.756
R - 3.083
Final drive - 4.592

B16A (all versions)
1 - 3.230
2 – 2.105
3 - 1.458
4 – 1.107
5 - 0.848
R - 3.000
Final drive - 4.400

If you notice the big differences here are that all the B16A ratios 1st to 5th are higher. Despite having a slightly (marginal at best) lower final drive.

Although it would seem that a CJ Mivec would really give the B16A a real good run for its money given that the final drive is 4.6 +++

 

[boyzone]

Mivec CA4A
1 - 3.083
2 - 1.947
3 - 1.285
4 - 0.939
5 - 0.756
R - 3.083
Final drive - 4.592

If the 3rd gear ratio is 1.450, I think will have different result in 400m drag.

Bump:

The comparison is stock for stock, not modified vs modified. READ: Factory built. Spoon, is not a factory that builds cars.

Bro,
I had replay and not very clear that:
1st round is stock vs stock right? But N1 VRZ already been tuned from Nissian since stock.. right? And they also claimed that this version only have 300 units.
Result : VRZ win.

2nd round is Civic spand with almost same amount $$ set up with VRZ, which is tuned by Spoon.
Result : Type R win.

Correct??
Pls advise.

 

[deacon]

Yes the Spoon did win. But the Spoon modified Civic Type R is for sale but only as a performance kit upgrade after you buy the Civic Type R from Honda. As in, not from factory mods lah.

On the other hand the Mugen Integra DC2 Type R for example, is a factory built machine. What was modified, very little, i think just badges and some other shit lah.

Not sure whether that made any sense lol.

I think if the Mivec gear ratios were shorter from 3rd to 5th it would totally kill the EG6. The engine would totally be able to use the higher final drive to its advantage at that point.

 

[boyzone]

I think Mivec will kill B16A if put in 4.9 FD gear box ( I know Mitsubishi have this gear box ).
But, FC will kill us as well

 

[deacon]

I guess that's the case with most NA cars. It's how well you tune your gear ratios. Whereas turbos don't really need to worry so much about ratios but rather how much boost to add. :)

 

[Shinjite]

if stock vs stock for turbo cars as well, the gear ratios play an important role too~~
EVO vs Subaru 2L turbo vs 2L turbo stock :)

Bump: if stock vs stock for turbo cars as well, the gear ratios play an important role too~~
EVO vs Subaru 2L turbo vs 2L turbo stock :)

 

[cfphoon]

lets make it dis way la...NA cars n turbo cars race to johor from kl...c who reach 1st la....:proud:

 

[karl5511]

Another thread that will make taiko JinKL angry...

No comments on which is more powerful either vtec and mivec, but this one nice...

lets make it dis way la...NA cars n turbo cars race to johor from kl...c who reach 1st la....:proud:

 

[Dbass]

lets make it dis way la...NA cars n turbo cars race to johor from kl...c who reach 1st la....:proud:

Wooo...like Rally Paris to Dakar....

 

[xtremeleo]

lets make it dis way la...NA cars n turbo cars race to johor from kl...c who reach 1st la....:proud:

again wit the immaturity, adoi...

cant u find sum other places dat r nearer to each other?:hmmmm: lol

 

[casper23]

again wit the immaturity, adoi...

cant u find sum other places dat r nearer to each other?:hmmmm: lol

take long distance laaa....
test which one can tahan longer....

 

[ferio94eg9]

I have found the gear ratios.

Mivec CJ4A
1 - 3.071
2 - 1.947
3 - 1.379
4 - 1.030
5 - 0.820
R - 3.363
Final drive - 4.625

Mivec CA4A
1 - 3.083
2 - 1.947
3 - 1.285
4 - 0.939
5 - 0.756
R - 3.083
Final drive - 4.592

B16A (all versions)
1 - 3.230
2 – 2.105
3 - 1.458
4 – 1.107
5 - 0.848
R - 3.000
Final drive - 4.400

If you notice the big differences here are that all the B16A ratios 1st to 5th are higher. Despite having a slightly (marginal at best) lower final drive.

Although it would seem that a CJ Mivec would really give the B16A a real good run for its money given that the final drive is 4.6 +++

Multiply each gear ratio from 1-5 with FD n u'll get the actual gear ratio:

Mivec / B16a
1 14.21 / 14.22
2 9.01 / 9.27
3 6.38 / 6.42
4 4.77 / 4.87
5 3.80 / 3.74

Then u get almost the same Actual Gear Ratio for both Mivec/B16a stock ratio. Eg. at 5th gear, for every 3.80 / 3.74 engine revolutions, your wheel makes one full rotation.

 

[deacon]

Well either way it seems that the YS1 gearbox seems to out perform the Mivec one...

 

[ferio94eg9]

Well either way it seems that the YS1 gearbox seems to out perform the Mivec one...

YS1 seems to out perform the mivec maybe due to the powerband of the engine. Is it one of the factor?

 

[deacon]

Could be. According to the article i posted the Mivec was rated at 175ps vs the B16A 170ps. If power band played a factor and weight (that being the Cyborg was slightly lighter) i would assume the Mivec would have been faster. But that was not the case. Perhaps it was chassis tuning that played a bigger role, not just the shorter ratios of the B16A's YS1 gearbox.

Bump: I found the actual review videos that the articles were based on.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBlEYDDngFY

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ5vW8eAbU4&feature=related

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45HDHMlUGJs&feature=related

Here is the new updated ZR being compared to the other 1.6L cars.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kWU2WUtOew&feature=related

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmkESfbOUO8&feature=related

Couldn't find part 3.

This is a video of the Mirage in a race with other FF NA machines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5s9lcejWQ&NR=1

In the 1st review of the Cyborg in 1993 it was painfully evident that the Cyborg's 3rd gear ratio let it down vs the Civic EG6. Not only that, the EG6 also had a longer wheel base which probably gave it more stability.

Interesting videos.

 

[JackWaiKit]

Any idea of better gearbox to improve Mivecin order to fight with VTEC?
Can just rojak the 3rd gear?
Well i panic on this!!!

Bump: Any idea of better gearbox to improve Mivecin order to fight with VTEC?
Can just rojak the 3rd gear?
Well i panic on this!!!

 

[deacon]

I guess research needs to be done on where to get a custom set of gear ratios. I think with a 4.7 final drive the Mivec should out perform the B16A. But the same can be said of the B16A.

Or you could get your rev cut set to 9000rpm (not safe for stock motors) and then shift into 3rd gear which would allow you to be in the sweet spot of the rpm range.

 

[aja]

Guys,

Wanna shares my real-world experienced owned a Lancer CK with CJ4A 4G92 mivec engine+ manual transmission. Car stock standard inside-outside. BTW, I've owned it from 2001-2005, before settled down with DOHC Vtec H22A Euro R and CT9A until now.

IMHO, stock to stock Mivec CJ4A would able to out-run a B16A and mivec C4A anytime. In fact, the 8300rpm redline was easily achievable from 1st-4th.

real-time Speed vs gear positions for Mivec Cj4A :- (all RSM reading-max rev until cut-off)

1st gear : 83++rpm : Speed 62kmh
2nd gear : 83++ rpm : 103kmh
3rd gear : 83++ rpm : 148kmh (sometime 150kmh,depends on load)
4th gear : 83++ rpm : 198 kmh (sometime 200kmh, depend on load).
5th gear : 73++ rpm : 237kmh (topspeed. Tried many times. Car seems out-breath at that rpm).

Mivec strong gears from 2nd->5th.

As for the topic, since most of us comparing mivec CA with B16A and we all knew that mivec CA technology consider obselute nowadays, that the main reason why mivec CA always lost to B16A, on stock comparison.

HOWEVER, To my surprissed, my first impression on H22A DOHV Vtec euro R while taking possesion of the car in 2005 not so impresive, due to the gear ratio. FYI, both ratio vs speed for 2.2cc Euro R and 1.6cc mivec CJ4A are almost the same...in fact Mivec CJ4A better by 15%. it would be suprised if we put high-cam on Mivec CJ4A and run side-by side by euro R, I believe the CJ4A would easily wiped Euro R anytime!!.

Accord euro R gear ratio vs speed : (RSM readings, readline-stock car) :-

1st gear : 78++rpm : Speed 60kmh
2nd gear : 78++ rpm : 100kmh
3rd gear : 78++ rpm : 144kmh (sometime 150kmh,depends on load)
4th gear : 78++ rpm : 194 kmh (sometime 200kmh, depend on load).
5th gear : 73++ rpm : 241kmh (still have 10% to go , but I believe topspeed should be around 245kmh)

In reality, on stock-stock & same range cc/factory hp, I do beleive the Mivec is not as bad as we think.