any 1 here get their R3 liao....???? :huh:
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- Joined
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I got my car!! Faizal came over to chat and gave some frenly advice!!
Have a nice weekend guys.....i know i will :lol:
Have a nice weekend guys.....i know i will :lol:
lala, good for u :)
tonite can sleep inside the car liao :lol:
tonite can sleep inside the car liao :lol:
forum members, i am too old to be a boyracer..my time has come and gone.
faisal, about the sr4 seats, laughable? hardly...there's still no proper justification from your end...only a shrug and saying no one will be happy even if you guys put tons of goodies. No one has come close to calculating the sum of parts and its worth. I was just doing so. Notice i also ranted about why there were no additional lightweight goodies other than the measly rear wing......
proton basher? i own a proton...love it. Just started 'bashing' (actually giving MY OPINION) which the purpose of this thread was started .You should hear some of my thoughts about some other cars being sold in malaysia. Actually....i keep hearing the phrase proton basher often, seldom hear the phrase 'perodua bashing' or that sort. i wonder why.
I have to agree tg. djan did the time in the r3, but glad to see that you've actually agreed with me that the marketing ppl did a boo boo of not explaining the time that he'd make on the standard gti. R3 needs proper marketing.
CF / ALU hood - Playing safe? honestly, with globalisation and such, is it such a good thing? (although 150 cars to the local market isn't global - you still gotta think big). Maybe 150 units is too little. maybe in malaysia its easy to find 'fish' out there. No offence guys who bought the r3..this comment is towards proton's marketing ppl.
On thoughts about vendors controlling proton...call it common knowledge everyone who actually studies about the malaysian economy as a whole and not just about the motor industry.
the pug and the pulsar - great cars for their time. Come to think of it, the original satria/ mirage came out in 1992, when those cars were in its prime. Ironic its still around compared to them. Imagine what would happen if peugeot kept upgrading their 205 till now. or nissan doing tha same to the pulsar.
One thing i noticed about cars since the early 90s till now is that not much has actually changed sinces then till now when it comes to suspension. You got multi link then, and you still got multi link now. the only difference is that its the technology the manufacturers have learnt over the last decade about suspension geometry and how to set up a car. I believe the R3 benefits from decades of development that allows a much older car to be set up on par with the current crop of GTis out there. The only thing acutally lacking about the satrias compared to the latest civic type-r or the latest mirage cyborg is suspension geometry & NVH tuning (i.e refinement). Of course, we have to settle for the same bodyshell instead of getting a stiffer new generation one.
in conclusion, the satria r3 is an effort my the motorsports div showing their seriousness in developing a product for enthusiasts. However, it boils donw to the phrase ' great concept - BUT a little lacking on the overall execution'
another 2 malaysian sen worth of opinion...and note, you're all entitled to your own opinion.
regards,
faisal, about the sr4 seats, laughable? hardly...there's still no proper justification from your end...only a shrug and saying no one will be happy even if you guys put tons of goodies. No one has come close to calculating the sum of parts and its worth. I was just doing so. Notice i also ranted about why there were no additional lightweight goodies other than the measly rear wing......
proton basher? i own a proton...love it. Just started 'bashing' (actually giving MY OPINION) which the purpose of this thread was started .You should hear some of my thoughts about some other cars being sold in malaysia. Actually....i keep hearing the phrase proton basher often, seldom hear the phrase 'perodua bashing' or that sort. i wonder why.
I have to agree tg. djan did the time in the r3, but glad to see that you've actually agreed with me that the marketing ppl did a boo boo of not explaining the time that he'd make on the standard gti. R3 needs proper marketing.
CF / ALU hood - Playing safe? honestly, with globalisation and such, is it such a good thing? (although 150 cars to the local market isn't global - you still gotta think big). Maybe 150 units is too little. maybe in malaysia its easy to find 'fish' out there. No offence guys who bought the r3..this comment is towards proton's marketing ppl.
On thoughts about vendors controlling proton...call it common knowledge everyone who actually studies about the malaysian economy as a whole and not just about the motor industry.
the pug and the pulsar - great cars for their time. Come to think of it, the original satria/ mirage came out in 1992, when those cars were in its prime. Ironic its still around compared to them. Imagine what would happen if peugeot kept upgrading their 205 till now. or nissan doing tha same to the pulsar.
One thing i noticed about cars since the early 90s till now is that not much has actually changed sinces then till now when it comes to suspension. You got multi link then, and you still got multi link now. the only difference is that its the technology the manufacturers have learnt over the last decade about suspension geometry and how to set up a car. I believe the R3 benefits from decades of development that allows a much older car to be set up on par with the current crop of GTis out there. The only thing acutally lacking about the satrias compared to the latest civic type-r or the latest mirage cyborg is suspension geometry & NVH tuning (i.e refinement). Of course, we have to settle for the same bodyshell instead of getting a stiffer new generation one.
in conclusion, the satria r3 is an effort my the motorsports div showing their seriousness in developing a product for enthusiasts. However, it boils donw to the phrase ' great concept - BUT a little lacking on the overall execution'
another 2 malaysian sen worth of opinion...and note, you're all entitled to your own opinion.
regards,
oh yeah..just re-reading the posting about why not 150bhp, 200bhp or 300bhp. Warranty? ever heard of a vtec honda comming in for warranty claims on a vtec related problem? hardly. There's been so many articles about this fact.
even subaru gives a 2 yr warranty on their wrx (note - turbo engine). bmw a global warranty on even their highly strung and highly tuned m3. (i heard recently bmw malaysia paid dearly for some warranty work on a private import...boy did they suffer)
I know that when you tune an engine some parts may not last, but the 4g93 can at least handle 150 -170 horses without blinking an eye. What is pretty wonderful about all mitsu engines of this era is that lots of parts are interchangeable, heck, even the b16-b20 honda engines can be played around with ...and SAFELY.
Back to the warranty argument. i do not think that proton cannot handle giving a 2 years warranty to an r3 with hotter parts in it. Note that if anyone does abit of homework, i.e go ask any honda approved mechanic or ask motor image about their warranty on the impreza.
regards
even subaru gives a 2 yr warranty on their wrx (note - turbo engine). bmw a global warranty on even their highly strung and highly tuned m3. (i heard recently bmw malaysia paid dearly for some warranty work on a private import...boy did they suffer)
I know that when you tune an engine some parts may not last, but the 4g93 can at least handle 150 -170 horses without blinking an eye. What is pretty wonderful about all mitsu engines of this era is that lots of parts are interchangeable, heck, even the b16-b20 honda engines can be played around with ...and SAFELY.
Back to the warranty argument. i do not think that proton cannot handle giving a 2 years warranty to an r3 with hotter parts in it. Note that if anyone does abit of homework, i.e go ask any honda approved mechanic or ask motor image about their warranty on the impreza.
regards
prozac....i'm surprised by your 'outburst'.... :D
Yes yes i am comparing expensive fully imported vehicles to the humble r3. (if it was supposed to be humble..it wouldnt be marketed as a peformance tool). However, note that my comparison is about manufactuers having the courage to give out a long warranty for such highly tuned vehicles. Can't proton do the same?
Maybe proton needs some confidence building. call in the foreign consultants from VW asap.
I dont think you wasted much of your cash (just some of it). Your statement goes to show the limited option motorsports fans have in malaysia. I have to add that we can only get so little, and that little is partly misguided as well. which the reasons are stated in my earlier posts.
regards
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2004
- Messages
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- 3,001
I think Proton bashers like Riggy exist bcos they have bought the wrong Proton at a point of their life that they can't be naughty behind the wheel anymore...so its natural to feel frustrated.
His points are valid as an uninformed opinion but its unfair at a time where Proton is slowly reinventing itself as a reputable car maker.
People need to realise that unlike other car companies, Proton is a national project and that means before it can act as a corporation, it needs to address the interests of the Government.
So one cannot possibly compare Honda, Toyota or whatever car company with Proton.
The R3 is a worthwhile effort and is a good buy at under RM80,000. It is entertaining behind the wheel and has adequate power. Furthermore, it is engineered in such a way that it can be upgraded in the future, behind a warranty, however limited, by the company.
His points are valid as an uninformed opinion but its unfair at a time where Proton is slowly reinventing itself as a reputable car maker.
People need to realise that unlike other car companies, Proton is a national project and that means before it can act as a corporation, it needs to address the interests of the Government.
So one cannot possibly compare Honda, Toyota or whatever car company with Proton.
The R3 is a worthwhile effort and is a good buy at under RM80,000. It is entertaining behind the wheel and has adequate power. Furthermore, it is engineered in such a way that it can be upgraded in the future, behind a warranty, however limited, by the company.
To Riggy and all those others with negative-based comments and queries...
I acknowledge that everyone is allowed their opinion, but please allwo me to unlighten you and provide a better understanding of what auto-manufacturers are up against as compared to a single person that modifies and personalises his car to his own liking. There are many ZTH forummers that have known me for years now, literally, and know that personally, I am on your side of the modding-world and am just as knowledgeable as you are.
So lets begin...
There are all sorts of markets out there for vehicles. Not everyone is interested to buy a 68k Putra and then modify it. We ZTH-ers might find this surprising, but most vehicle owners would rather just buy a car as it is and drive it as it is, not take it to Sunway to get modified with a 2nd hand turbo engine with questionable wiring and that breakdowns every few weeks. Therefore, for this buy-and-drive segment, there exists the Proton Satria R3. It is the 1st effort by the Proton Motorsports Division, and no less not the last. There is actually a lot more to come, and as mentioned by Crash, R3 has Stage 2 and Stage 3 packages coming up for the more hardcore users to upgrade their vehicle to. Why hasn't R3 let it be publicly known? It will come.. in time.. when the products are ready (est Q1/Q2 next year).
Now, about uprated cams and more engine power: there exists a JPJ rule for new cars sold in Malaysia to meet certain emissions regulations. In our country, it is to the Euro2 standards (10 years behind the Europeans actually, and thank god or not none of us would be able to modify our cars to meet an annual inspection!!), which the Satria R3 still meets with the power increase. If longer duration cams were fitted for more power, then the vehicle would not be able to meet these minimum specifications.
How come Honda with the VTEC can do it? If you are familiar with powertrain engineering, the longer duration, higher lift 3rd lobe of the VTEC system kicks in at high-rpm, whereby the different breathing application and fuelling can still meet with emissions. It is at idle and low-rpm that high-lift long-duration cams suffer from excessive hydrocarbon emissions and poor combustion, which is why cars with full-race cams are very "cam-my" at low-rpm i.e. splutter and inconsistent idle. However, be assured that the Stage 2 and Stage 3 development includes cams that 4G93 owners can upgrade to. What is important is that certain parts such as the exhaust system have been developed with the higher future gasflow in mind, and will therefore not be very restrictive even with the upgrade cams.
This is why Satria R3 owners will open their boot for the 1st time and surprise-surprise find a short length of straight thru piping which they can use to replace the catalytic converter with for more power, at their own responsibility. Of course R3 states on the packaging that the piping is only recommend for track days and motorsports use only, but at least officially the car leaves the factory compliant to JPJ rulings on emissions.
The same goes for other items such as carbon-fiber parts, upgraded suspension bushes, performance high-adjustable suspension struts, etc. These will be on sale sometime next year as part of the Stage 2/Stage 3 packages to tackle the after-market performance upgrade enthusiasts.
As for the Recaro seats, your argument really isn't justified. Do you know how much SR3 seats cost when supplied to R3? The difference is actually very minimal, and as such, it's better to have newer SR4 seats which are more up-to-date and "fashionable" then to supply older SR3s. If R3 sold the Satria R3 with SR3s, then ppl like you would complain that R3 was too cheapskate and using older model seats instead of newer items.
As for items on the Satria R3 that "could have been more bang-for-buck" such as "Rm1600 twinpot brakes from Autobags", we have tested a few of those "twinpot" stuff sold in the aftermarket that come from overseas, and unfortunately they fail long-term testing dramatically. I don't think that Satria R3 owners would appreciate a made-in-taiwan twinpot brake setup with bigger discs that would fail or crack or spring a leak 12 months later just when the driver needs to brake hard to avoid a 5-tonne lorry pullling out in front of him. Such items have been tried and tested and deemed unsuitable. This is why famed and known brands such as "Brembo" and "AP" etc exist and supply to OE manufacturers: they are effective as well as durable. Think harder next time you want to buy one of these "cheapo" things: have they been tested exhaustively and extensively, or does the salesperson say "yeah we gave it to one of the racing drivers who used it in a race and finished 1st"... Unfortunately 15 laps at race speed isn't the same as 5 years of day-in-day-out driving in hot and cold, rain or dry conditions.
At the end of the day, the Satria is based on a Mitsubishi vehicle, and certain items are limited to how Mitsubishi created them 10 years ago and are supplying to Proton. R3 had to work within these limitations, and unfortunately as is such with these things, not everything that was originally planned could be implemented.
And about the ECU: the Siemens ECU is actually a very good system. It runs on a MAP-sensor, which means that it does away with the Air-Flow unit, which means that it is less restrictive and theoretically can produce more power than the original Mitsu-ECU setup. Your gripe is that you can't modify the engine much before the system gets confused and runs on limp-home mode. But I ask you: since when is it the responsbility of an auto manufacturer to produce an ECU that can be modified?? Preferably, auto manufacturer would want to supply an ECU that cannot be modified so that ppl like you will not modify the car/engine to dangerous levels which could be dangerous to you as well as other road users. Manufacturers like Mitsu and Nissan never released wiring diagrams etc for their ECU, it was always up to the after-market performance parts suppliers to work it out, from which point the information then slowly became widespread knowledge, once someone had already "cracked the code". This is why chipping is such a big business and why you pay RM 1600 for a GReddy E-manage that is only a box full of some 50sen microchips.
Last but not least, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people may be happy with the specs and price of the Satria R3, some may not. I personally met a would-be buyer who opted for a Satria GTI instead, and no he is not the modify-type of person, just wants a stylish daily drive car with some street-cred to pull the ladies.
Best regards,
/adian
I acknowledge that everyone is allowed their opinion, but please allwo me to unlighten you and provide a better understanding of what auto-manufacturers are up against as compared to a single person that modifies and personalises his car to his own liking. There are many ZTH forummers that have known me for years now, literally, and know that personally, I am on your side of the modding-world and am just as knowledgeable as you are.
So lets begin...
There are all sorts of markets out there for vehicles. Not everyone is interested to buy a 68k Putra and then modify it. We ZTH-ers might find this surprising, but most vehicle owners would rather just buy a car as it is and drive it as it is, not take it to Sunway to get modified with a 2nd hand turbo engine with questionable wiring and that breakdowns every few weeks. Therefore, for this buy-and-drive segment, there exists the Proton Satria R3. It is the 1st effort by the Proton Motorsports Division, and no less not the last. There is actually a lot more to come, and as mentioned by Crash, R3 has Stage 2 and Stage 3 packages coming up for the more hardcore users to upgrade their vehicle to. Why hasn't R3 let it be publicly known? It will come.. in time.. when the products are ready (est Q1/Q2 next year).
Now, about uprated cams and more engine power: there exists a JPJ rule for new cars sold in Malaysia to meet certain emissions regulations. In our country, it is to the Euro2 standards (10 years behind the Europeans actually, and thank god or not none of us would be able to modify our cars to meet an annual inspection!!), which the Satria R3 still meets with the power increase. If longer duration cams were fitted for more power, then the vehicle would not be able to meet these minimum specifications.
How come Honda with the VTEC can do it? If you are familiar with powertrain engineering, the longer duration, higher lift 3rd lobe of the VTEC system kicks in at high-rpm, whereby the different breathing application and fuelling can still meet with emissions. It is at idle and low-rpm that high-lift long-duration cams suffer from excessive hydrocarbon emissions and poor combustion, which is why cars with full-race cams are very "cam-my" at low-rpm i.e. splutter and inconsistent idle. However, be assured that the Stage 2 and Stage 3 development includes cams that 4G93 owners can upgrade to. What is important is that certain parts such as the exhaust system have been developed with the higher future gasflow in mind, and will therefore not be very restrictive even with the upgrade cams.
This is why Satria R3 owners will open their boot for the 1st time and surprise-surprise find a short length of straight thru piping which they can use to replace the catalytic converter with for more power, at their own responsibility. Of course R3 states on the packaging that the piping is only recommend for track days and motorsports use only, but at least officially the car leaves the factory compliant to JPJ rulings on emissions.
The same goes for other items such as carbon-fiber parts, upgraded suspension bushes, performance high-adjustable suspension struts, etc. These will be on sale sometime next year as part of the Stage 2/Stage 3 packages to tackle the after-market performance upgrade enthusiasts.
As for the Recaro seats, your argument really isn't justified. Do you know how much SR3 seats cost when supplied to R3? The difference is actually very minimal, and as such, it's better to have newer SR4 seats which are more up-to-date and "fashionable" then to supply older SR3s. If R3 sold the Satria R3 with SR3s, then ppl like you would complain that R3 was too cheapskate and using older model seats instead of newer items.
As for items on the Satria R3 that "could have been more bang-for-buck" such as "Rm1600 twinpot brakes from Autobags", we have tested a few of those "twinpot" stuff sold in the aftermarket that come from overseas, and unfortunately they fail long-term testing dramatically. I don't think that Satria R3 owners would appreciate a made-in-taiwan twinpot brake setup with bigger discs that would fail or crack or spring a leak 12 months later just when the driver needs to brake hard to avoid a 5-tonne lorry pullling out in front of him. Such items have been tried and tested and deemed unsuitable. This is why famed and known brands such as "Brembo" and "AP" etc exist and supply to OE manufacturers: they are effective as well as durable. Think harder next time you want to buy one of these "cheapo" things: have they been tested exhaustively and extensively, or does the salesperson say "yeah we gave it to one of the racing drivers who used it in a race and finished 1st"... Unfortunately 15 laps at race speed isn't the same as 5 years of day-in-day-out driving in hot and cold, rain or dry conditions.
At the end of the day, the Satria is based on a Mitsubishi vehicle, and certain items are limited to how Mitsubishi created them 10 years ago and are supplying to Proton. R3 had to work within these limitations, and unfortunately as is such with these things, not everything that was originally planned could be implemented.
And about the ECU: the Siemens ECU is actually a very good system. It runs on a MAP-sensor, which means that it does away with the Air-Flow unit, which means that it is less restrictive and theoretically can produce more power than the original Mitsu-ECU setup. Your gripe is that you can't modify the engine much before the system gets confused and runs on limp-home mode. But I ask you: since when is it the responsbility of an auto manufacturer to produce an ECU that can be modified?? Preferably, auto manufacturer would want to supply an ECU that cannot be modified so that ppl like you will not modify the car/engine to dangerous levels which could be dangerous to you as well as other road users. Manufacturers like Mitsu and Nissan never released wiring diagrams etc for their ECU, it was always up to the after-market performance parts suppliers to work it out, from which point the information then slowly became widespread knowledge, once someone had already "cracked the code". This is why chipping is such a big business and why you pay RM 1600 for a GReddy E-manage that is only a box full of some 50sen microchips.
Last but not least, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people may be happy with the specs and price of the Satria R3, some may not. I personally met a would-be buyer who opted for a Satria GTI instead, and no he is not the modify-type of person, just wants a stylish daily drive car with some street-cred to pull the ladies.
Best regards,
/adian
adian: this is the kind of reply i want from ppl at Proton.
To the person who posted before adian, bigballer,...didn't you read my previous posting that i Love my proton? I have no regrets whatsoever in owning it (recently cruised for approx 3hours & abit more KL-penang doing 130-140kmh - wonderful for a 6 yr old car).
adian, you and i both know that a good seat is necesary to feel how the car feels in the corner. I would never bash the sr3 as i still have a pair of it in my old honda. It grips better than an njoy, but it'll perform the same as the sr4. You will note why i brought this up. minimal? it also depends on the price that you guys negotiated for (note my earlier comments about bulk purchases - i hope you read it). You would then say that i based the argument strictly on price. Have you answered fairly? did RECARO actually give you a special price for them? I'd only say you answered better than the other motorsport guy.
on the vtec engine. yes, i'd admit you have emissions to think about as far as adding cams are concerned. But part of my point is....there are other 'goodies' that could be added. Do not limit yourself or the argument of not adding cams to the R3. what about other stuff?
The other part of my point is..i was stating a fact that someone in here wrote that proton may not give a warranty for such a highly tuned engine. Which i replied that if other manufacturers can (a honda vtec and a subaru boxer were stated as examples), why couldnt proton give a long warranty for a highly tuned engine IF they did so?
On the brakes, yes, i gave a bad example then. But it was an example to say what you guys could have added for your R3 package that's listed at RM17K. But maybe you could use the perdana v6 calipers? or evo1 calipers with mounting for the pcd100? evos are twin ports. so many mitsu OE stuff to play with. but the DBA discs you fitted are good stuff i have to say.
This also adds to the rm17k R3 PACKAGE ....you'd think that more parts could be added instead of having stage 1,2,3 packages to add. Isn't it possible to add more 'goodies' (as i like to say) to the original vehicle package rather than add ons? How much of the rm17k goes to performance upgrades? Thats a question that I'd like to know. Question. is this stage 1-3 packaging a way to 'milk' customers? This may sound like flaming...but adian, i know you have the answer.
At the end of the day...even you seem to agree with me that the satria is 'abit long in the tooth. a 10 year old mitsu design. ( note, i drive a wira..its also a 10 yr old mitsu design - older actually...lancers came out in 92)
Ecu - actually i was askin for a more tollerant ECU...one that recognises a little bit of tweaking or any sort of variables. One that reads variables, eg. 1-10 diff variables instead of one as rigid as the siemens - maybe 1-3 variables only i.e a SMART box, . Not one with the 'check engine' sign going on with the slightest sign of dust in the throttle body or with just a change of the exhaust system (like some proton users have experienced). I also mentioned that Proton seems to be going in the way of BMW and Audi didnt i? I also mentioned that the siemens ECU/throttle body setup seems to be overtly sensitive to dust dirt and grime. Could you go have a word with the vendors?
I am so glad that someone with some credibility from proton finally came thru in here....
And other guys, READ my posting first before typing and replying my postings.
just a few more malaysian sen worth of posting.
regards.
To the person who posted before adian, bigballer,...didn't you read my previous posting that i Love my proton? I have no regrets whatsoever in owning it (recently cruised for approx 3hours & abit more KL-penang doing 130-140kmh - wonderful for a 6 yr old car).
adian, you and i both know that a good seat is necesary to feel how the car feels in the corner. I would never bash the sr3 as i still have a pair of it in my old honda. It grips better than an njoy, but it'll perform the same as the sr4. You will note why i brought this up. minimal? it also depends on the price that you guys negotiated for (note my earlier comments about bulk purchases - i hope you read it). You would then say that i based the argument strictly on price. Have you answered fairly? did RECARO actually give you a special price for them? I'd only say you answered better than the other motorsport guy.
on the vtec engine. yes, i'd admit you have emissions to think about as far as adding cams are concerned. But part of my point is....there are other 'goodies' that could be added. Do not limit yourself or the argument of not adding cams to the R3. what about other stuff?
The other part of my point is..i was stating a fact that someone in here wrote that proton may not give a warranty for such a highly tuned engine. Which i replied that if other manufacturers can (a honda vtec and a subaru boxer were stated as examples), why couldnt proton give a long warranty for a highly tuned engine IF they did so?
On the brakes, yes, i gave a bad example then. But it was an example to say what you guys could have added for your R3 package that's listed at RM17K. But maybe you could use the perdana v6 calipers? or evo1 calipers with mounting for the pcd100? evos are twin ports. so many mitsu OE stuff to play with. but the DBA discs you fitted are good stuff i have to say.
This also adds to the rm17k R3 PACKAGE ....you'd think that more parts could be added instead of having stage 1,2,3 packages to add. Isn't it possible to add more 'goodies' (as i like to say) to the original vehicle package rather than add ons? How much of the rm17k goes to performance upgrades? Thats a question that I'd like to know. Question. is this stage 1-3 packaging a way to 'milk' customers? This may sound like flaming...but adian, i know you have the answer.
At the end of the day...even you seem to agree with me that the satria is 'abit long in the tooth. a 10 year old mitsu design. ( note, i drive a wira..its also a 10 yr old mitsu design - older actually...lancers came out in 92)
Ecu - actually i was askin for a more tollerant ECU...one that recognises a little bit of tweaking or any sort of variables. One that reads variables, eg. 1-10 diff variables instead of one as rigid as the siemens - maybe 1-3 variables only i.e a SMART box, . Not one with the 'check engine' sign going on with the slightest sign of dust in the throttle body or with just a change of the exhaust system (like some proton users have experienced). I also mentioned that Proton seems to be going in the way of BMW and Audi didnt i? I also mentioned that the siemens ECU/throttle body setup seems to be overtly sensitive to dust dirt and grime. Could you go have a word with the vendors?
I am so glad that someone with some credibility from proton finally came thru in here....
And other guys, READ my posting first before typing and replying my postings.
just a few more malaysian sen worth of posting.
regards.
riggy, personally, I don't think of you as a Proton-basher at all. More like a critic, but with constructive comments and feedback. Proton needs these kind of feedback, much like our government needs a strong opposition to keep it in check constantly. I tend to support Proton, but I don't tolerate complacency and incompetence, especially where quality is concerned.
Proton has what it takes to be a player. It knows that, I'm sure. With R3, it also shows that it IS serious about being different and setting news standards. It is SERIOUS about performance, although one might argue that the 'performance' bit can be further enhanced, no doubt. Bottomline is, whether you compare it with a Type-R, or an Impreza (which I think its quite unfair due to the price point), the SR3 is a sub-RM80K car which nothing else can beat in full package. And if you look at it from another perspective, the SR3 is only RM5K dearer than an SGTi. For me, the SR3 wins hands down.
And yes, it is considerably old architecture, but there are many other cars out there which are similar in age. :/ Even the powerhouse Mitsi 4G63T is fundamentally a 10-year old design if you step out and look at the big picture.
riggy, personally, I don't think of you as a Proton-basher at all. More like a critic, but with constructive comments and feedback. Proton needs these kind of feedback, much like our government needs a strong opposition to keep it in check constantly. I tend to support Proton, but I don't tolerate complacency and incompetence, especially where quality is concerned.
Proton has what it takes to be a player. It knows that, I'm sure. With R3, it also shows that it IS serious about being different and setting news standards. It is SERIOUS about performance, although one might argue that the 'performance' bit can be further enhanced, no doubt. Bottomline is, whether you compare it with a Type-R, or an Impreza (which I think its quite unfair due to the price point), the SR3 is a sub-RM80K car which nothing else can beat in full package. And if you look at it from another perspective, the SR3 is only RM5K dearer than an SGTi. For me, the SR3 wins hands down.
And yes, it is considerably old architecture, but there are many other cars out there which are similar in age. :/ Even the powerhouse Mitsi 4G63T is fundamentally a 10-year old design if you step out and look at the big picture.
Although we appreciate constructive criticisms for our check and balance, clearly you are beginning to sound like a vindictive basher. Picking on every little thing that helps you paint yourself as a victim while claiming to be a champion of progress. Repeating yourself systematically to strengthen your arguable and bewildered points. CONvinsing others that your research is well thought and in depth, implying that Proton should do more about its planning and marketing. Your tone certainly sounds like you can take on the whole Proton think-tank alone.
A little advise for you; whatever you regurgitated out…all your points on “what could be” or “what should be”, we go thru all that EVERYDAY. We want the same things. More POWER, lighter parts, MORE goodies…same tune, same confidence. Believe me, we @ R3 had the same cocked up ideas that you have now…. but ideas are cheap. Translating it takes a lot of effort, understanding and compromise, making it commercially viable after development cost, marketing cost, man-hour cost… did it ever occur to u that removing items from the prod-line just to suit 150 units would cost more than save money. (I’ve not even calculated half the cost to justify the RM17k you are harping about). That is why your points are laughable. Turns out, its not as ABC as you put it. “Why no more goodie parts???” U go figure…turn every rock and u still won’t be satisfied. U have much to learn young grasshopper J
The question everyone wants to know was “what is your opinion about Satria R3?”
So lets get to the point; we are talking about ANY brand new car in Malaysia, which cost roughly RM77k with the same performance, with the same ride compliance as the SR3 for comparisons … It carries more cornering speed than Civic type-R (tested) because its lighter, coupled with specifically tuned shockers and has unmatchable tyre grip. For the same reasons, it brakes better than almost all RM200k (OE) sports cars. That is BENCHMARKING.
Lesson: What options are there? Think…If there were options you would have exercised it. WHY are there no options in this price bracket? Because it’s not commercially viable. Manufacturers rather sell sports/luxury rates so they can optimise the warranty cost. That’s like Proton giving a two-year warranty for a 200bhp 2.0 WAJA @ RM190k. Nobody can afford it leaving us poor folks recon cars or joined half-cuts.
But we need a safe, affordable, reliable and sustainable vehicle. Most important we need a car to trash each time we are late for a date.
The key is STAGE 1. Fundamentals out of the way… First the weight and strength of the chassis sorted before we move on to ‘redefining the limits’. If Mr.X bought a 1.3 shell and somehow manage to spot weld the bugger, there is no guarantee its as strong because knowing WHERE to spot makes a lot of difference. Then Mr. X will realise that the car is still heavier by 100kgs so tries to cut here and there, take out carpet, take out seat…NOW we see the same weight. Unfortunately, the chassis would have been compromised thru the street styled weight reduction, to add, his girlfriend would be sitting on the car floor by now.
Lesson: Why do u need Stage 1? Because you don’t want to spend time with your girlfriend in a workshop proving that you know more about cars than Proton does.
So why don’t I just wait for STAGE 2?
140 bhp might sound lame to you but contrary to your earlier point, this baby will run up Genting in 20 minutes without a huff or a puff AFTER it has lapped any other 1.8Proton cars MMC chipped or otherwise. If that is not enough, STAGE 2 will address the POWER issues (160bhp?!?!) you mentioned complimenting the sensible foundation in STAGE 1.
As a package, the car is so sweet that I’m looking for money to own one myself. Adian and Faisal (the other motorsports guy) has been very accommodating towards your queries, preserving professionalism whilst being informative. However, I have doubts on their actions to argue on your points that have no ends.
My recommendations: test-drive the car then you can comment sumore
A little advise for you; whatever you regurgitated out…all your points on “what could be” or “what should be”, we go thru all that EVERYDAY. We want the same things. More POWER, lighter parts, MORE goodies…same tune, same confidence. Believe me, we @ R3 had the same cocked up ideas that you have now…. but ideas are cheap. Translating it takes a lot of effort, understanding and compromise, making it commercially viable after development cost, marketing cost, man-hour cost… did it ever occur to u that removing items from the prod-line just to suit 150 units would cost more than save money. (I’ve not even calculated half the cost to justify the RM17k you are harping about). That is why your points are laughable. Turns out, its not as ABC as you put it. “Why no more goodie parts???” U go figure…turn every rock and u still won’t be satisfied. U have much to learn young grasshopper J
The question everyone wants to know was “what is your opinion about Satria R3?”
So lets get to the point; we are talking about ANY brand new car in Malaysia, which cost roughly RM77k with the same performance, with the same ride compliance as the SR3 for comparisons … It carries more cornering speed than Civic type-R (tested) because its lighter, coupled with specifically tuned shockers and has unmatchable tyre grip. For the same reasons, it brakes better than almost all RM200k (OE) sports cars. That is BENCHMARKING.
Lesson: What options are there? Think…If there were options you would have exercised it. WHY are there no options in this price bracket? Because it’s not commercially viable. Manufacturers rather sell sports/luxury rates so they can optimise the warranty cost. That’s like Proton giving a two-year warranty for a 200bhp 2.0 WAJA @ RM190k. Nobody can afford it leaving us poor folks recon cars or joined half-cuts.
But we need a safe, affordable, reliable and sustainable vehicle. Most important we need a car to trash each time we are late for a date.
The key is STAGE 1. Fundamentals out of the way… First the weight and strength of the chassis sorted before we move on to ‘redefining the limits’. If Mr.X bought a 1.3 shell and somehow manage to spot weld the bugger, there is no guarantee its as strong because knowing WHERE to spot makes a lot of difference. Then Mr. X will realise that the car is still heavier by 100kgs so tries to cut here and there, take out carpet, take out seat…NOW we see the same weight. Unfortunately, the chassis would have been compromised thru the street styled weight reduction, to add, his girlfriend would be sitting on the car floor by now.
Lesson: Why do u need Stage 1? Because you don’t want to spend time with your girlfriend in a workshop proving that you know more about cars than Proton does.
So why don’t I just wait for STAGE 2?
140 bhp might sound lame to you but contrary to your earlier point, this baby will run up Genting in 20 minutes without a huff or a puff AFTER it has lapped any other 1.8Proton cars MMC chipped or otherwise. If that is not enough, STAGE 2 will address the POWER issues (160bhp?!?!) you mentioned complimenting the sensible foundation in STAGE 1.
As a package, the car is so sweet that I’m looking for money to own one myself. Adian and Faisal (the other motorsports guy) has been very accommodating towards your queries, preserving professionalism whilst being informative. However, I have doubts on their actions to argue on your points that have no ends.
My recommendations: test-drive the car then you can comment sumore
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