Dyno results the ultimate measurement tool ??

[shamburke]

well,

this may sound tak pandai!!!!

i guess most of us understand that by giving out a dyno graph... we'll be looking into the improvement of hp only....

is that what we need to look at?

is there any other reading that we can look into ? for instance...

how fast the RPM reached redline... before and after any mods....?
from 1st to 2nd to 3rd and so forth??

me lagi tak paham!!!

 

[GT20v]

actually there is 1 way to test all the mod in ur car ........ie test it on the road with stopwatch.....

but cant remember how anymore....there is some steps n way to make accurate and involve all the stuff and powerband toooo

aiyoh..getting old liao......

 

[AE80TypeD]

if really wanna measure any aspect of performance, i believe both the dyno and time benchmark tests should go hand in hand. u cant depend on machine alone to measure ur performance. ur car is a car is a car, however u wanna put it, it still needs to shake, rattle and roll.

in the real world drive vs time test, there is just more variables to consider, thats all... up to the point that IMO its no use trying to control. clutch material, tire compound and tire pressure u say? i say dun bother, do the best with what YOU have now and adjust it until u get the best vs time results. if wanna complain another guy can get better times with stock FD, remember in a real world test, his car condition, body rigidity, suspension also comes into the pic when ur at Sepang. it doesnt mean shit that ur FD is innefective. u cant go about comparing with EVERY other SEG out there with almost unlimited configurations. besides, not everyone will tell u straightaway what mods he have for u to compare with.

dont bother comparing unless an exact comparison template is available (usually not even possible). measure what u have (and the best U can afford) then find ways to make THOSE work better for u. coz if u wanna say that tire compound tire pressure la.. what about different times of the day/night? ambient temp? road compound? can u control it? a benchmark in sepang is just a benchmark in sepang. we are driving street machines. we need not be so strict abt any controlled experiment. coz we drive almost everywhere :lol:

 

[AE80TypeD]

yolk: can you pls pls pls explain to me how to read dyno chart based on the mods done above kaaaa ...

hahaha.. yala.. i guess i can understand why u feel the discussion is deviating from wat u want to know... i feel silly as well, so sorry yolk, pls pardon my absent mindedness.. :lol:

if i may pitch in, my version of the answer would be: there is no way to read a dyno chart for those mods... if got change in the graph shape oso not very usable or significant one.. unless it is measured and plotted against time. but thats just me :P

 

[rubbs]

Nice discussion.......................

And cool dyno graphs! :lol:

 

[QiW]

huh ??? dyno test as the ultimate measurement tool ???
no laaa ... i think i trust my own butt more than i trust any machine laa .. huahahahahaahaa ... :P

but the ultimate contradiction to a dyno as a measurement tool of performance is when a 120hp can tapau a 160hp car ... same chassis and weight ... how to explain ??? dyno machine fcuked up ??? hahahaahahhaaa ... :P

 

[levin818]

Master Yolk,
When Honda newly developed DC5, they final confirmed its performance over DC2 based on the track laps records.
It happened to Audi, Ferrari ect.

As Acoustic advice, please keep a log book for your car. Then u will be able to know your car improvement after plug in those performance stuff lor.

I am the fello who never go dyno b4, coz financially yet to ready for heavy mod, or rather scare to see the HP below 100 :lol:.

 

[QiW]

sifooo wong aahhh .. u never go dyno b4 kaa ??? aiyooooo ... even kiasu fella like me oso dyno b4 liauu maaa ... if u want the figures to look ood then kasi bribe the fella doing the dyno lorr ... huahahahahahaaaaa ... :P
track records may differ from driver to driver one laa ... lines taken are slightly different .. driving style different .. driver different .. hehehhehe ... performance in the dc5 and dc2 case maybe becoz dc5 is one of the best handling FF cars in the world ??? or maybe the best ?? huahahahahahaaa ... :P

 

[yolk]

Originally posted by levin818@Dec 22 2004, 12:52
Master Yolk,
When Honda newly developed DC5, they final confirmed its performance over DC2 based on the track laps records.
It happened to Audi, Ferrari ect.

As Acoustic advice, please keep a log book for your car. Then u will be able to know your car improvement after plug in those performance stuff lor.

I am the fello who never go dyno b4, coz financially yet to ready for heavy mod, or rather scare to see the HP below 100 :lol:.

wong,
okay understand what you trying to say .. means everytime have to go sepang with my own car and with different setting than see the lap time difference laaa ... okay la say i masuk all the stuff i mentioned in first page .. previously i got 3m in sepang with out those mods .. then masuk those mods get 2:55m .. so faster 5 sec ... ermm so what ??? so how do i tell my friend mr allan qiw that those mods are worth it ?!?! tell him i go sepang 5 sec faster ka ?!?!? if he is uncle with family just want to increase the performance/response of his engine abit but don't care i faster 5 sec or 10 sec in sepang so how do i explain to him how much better is it ?!?! do you understand what i'm trying to say ka ?!?!?!? <_< :lol:

 

[TRD16v]

hmmm.. dun tembak me la but for me previously b4 install safc n afr meter i get normal feeling when go into revving n such.. but after install these 2 stuff feeling is different cause miton pasang it for me den i go butt dyno den my gf oso help me tune it when i go on speeding n i taught her how to adjust the safc n she was sitting beside me.. den now feeling is when go revving respond or feeling shall i say more good lor but phobia liao cause kena from 2 SEG lor.. ahahahahahahaahahahahaahah! :D :lol:





Regards,
Mike

 

[AE80TypeD]

if he is uncle with family just want to increase the performance/response of his engine abit but don't care i faster 5 sec or 10 sec in sepang so how do i explain to him how much better is it ?!?! do you understand what i'm trying to say ka ?!?!?!?

i say screw him la! :lol: as long as ur car can challenge other cars and he wants his engine to die faster then urs, then let it be lor.. u oledy tried to explain but he dun belif, no use forcing him to.. u feel ur car shiok and perform better enuff liao.. tapau a DC5 in front of him even better; action speaks louder than words.

dun care abt others la if so susah lidat :lol: kasi penat urself aje :lol: kekekeke

 

[QiW]

eerrr .... how to say this aahh ??? my engine has been with me for over 3.5 yrs liauuu ... and i wont say it is going to die anytime soon laa ... hehehehehee ... but i sure tiuuu kow my fren yolk if he spend so much and still cannot get below 3mins one in SIC .. hahahahaahaa .. :P

 

[AE80TypeD]

hahaha... racing ppl if can gain 0.5 seconds by adjusting settings alone oso like celebrate oledy... desperate even..

after mods become faster by 5 seconds on a NON RACE PREPARED CAR!!??

enuff for me to kowtow to u oledy... 5 full seconds is afarkingmazing :lol: remember that the car is still heavy and fully equipped... oledy 2:55 wooor newbie driver my ass.. :lol:

 

[QiW]

kow tow kow tow to our sifoo ... :P

 

[AE80TypeD]

ya ya.. max respect... if i sit in yolk's passenger seat my balls sure fly out the window liao... coz street car got more Gs than lighter race car.. takes more courage to whack around track in 2:55 :o

i even know some drivers that ride half-track car (lighten cincai2) who only managed to get around 2:50~ only :lol:

 

[wkautech]

Originally posted by yolk@Dec 22 2004, 06:52
levin818,
hmmm i still think that the example of testing car in sepang is not very good laaa .. ahahahh coz it involves skill ... so if I put 4.733 final drive into my car and drive into sepang and only got 3min per lap but another person with stock final drive get 2:58min per lap so means the final drive mod I do to my car is ineffective ??? Not sure if japan got dyno which take time into account or if there is any dyno which take time into account .. this one gotta ask william of trial tuning la B)

william,
no gadoh laaa .. just healthy discussion maaaaa .. never discussion .. never argue how to learn maaaa ... B)

ae80typeD,
aijoooooooooooooooooooo like this also not so good liao coz tyre pressure ..tyre compound ... clutch material all come into play liao ... hahahahhahaa if using "butt dyno" laaaaaaaaaa


Actually some of you missing the point of this post la. This post never ask about "DYNO TUNE" ... just asking about reading a dyno graph ... can it be the ULTIMATE measurement tool ... especially with the mods I have listed which does not 100% show it's performance gains on a dyno .. so if it does not 100% show on dyno then what is the best way to measure it ?!?!

If you all wanna talk about dyno tuning vs butt tuning vs bawak pokok tuning start new thread la then we can continue there b]

not saying that u guys gaduh lah. :)

just want to make things clear. Actually i dont mean to insult the owners of any car below 400ps, but i really want to know how much different is there between 140ps-150ps
when the time i was in japan, everyday i have to `eat` exhaust smoke in dyno room, the smoke of course something like smoke 3 packets of cigarette a day lah.
why u guys so serious bout that ?

everytime people say my starlet or corolla or levin is fast ( not trying to promote myself, plz dont think i m lansi, ok ) i also not really interested to dyno my car bcoz i know all my so call fast car is more less 200ps.
to what i have been, i only see cars above 400ps in dyno room, other than that only customer request bcoz we can calculate the car HP by the parts or engine condition or maybe test drive car.

tq

p.s. if anyone not agree or cannot trust me, plz tembak me. I dont mind

 

[ae92levin]

Originally posted by QiW@Dec 22 2004, 12:41
huh ??? dyno test as the ultimate measurement tool ???
no laaa ... i think i trust my own butt more than i trust any machine laa .. huahahahahaahaa ... :P

but the ultimate contradiction to a dyno as a measurement tool of performance is when a 120hp can tapau a 160hp car ... same chassis and weight ... how to explain ??? dyno machine fcuked up ??? hahahaahahhaaa ... :P

lookin at a dyno graph isnt only about max HP. other things like when the power comes in, torque curves and few other things come into play.

also, different dyno machines will give different results. machine owner can make figures higher to make u kembang or lower the figures to make u spend more on mods. its all about machine calibration.

Dyno machine is a good measuring tool for TUNING purposes.

for ultimate measuring tool, nothing beats a time trial on a straight road. perhaps a 1/4 mile. Time trial beats butt tuning anytime.

wkautech, my car less than 400 hp, but if i get programmable ecu can tune efficiently without dyno??

 

[wkautech]

why not ? i use A/f meter to do setting, i also got knocking monitor to hear knocking sound, i also got lot of fresh when i drive the car :lol:

 

[ae92levin]

ya but isnt dyno more effective? And i also heard a/f meter not so accurate if not connected to ecu wire properly, o2 sensor faulty etc...

although im in favour for dyno runs, im still gonna tune my SAFC with a/f meter. hope i dont get speeding ticket...

 

[EFN]

Originally posted by ae92levin@Dec 23 2004, 18:21
ya but isnt dyno more effective? And i also heard a/f meter not so accurate if not connected to ecu wire properly, o2 sensor faulty etc...

although im in favour for dyno runs, im still gonna tune my SAFC with a/f meter. hope i dont get speeding ticket...

I believe what wkautech says is that he is accustomed to tuning using Wide Band AFR device. See, Dyno machine are Dyno Machine, and most of them use Wide Band O2 sensor for AFR reading. So meaning to say that if you have a Wide Band O2 Sensor and Measuring Gauge, you could do the same with what a Dyno machine can do.

Most of the AFR gauge in the market now are Narrow band type, which is not so comprehensive in AFR reading.