AP holders...

hmm... this starts to sound more like nationalism, instead of racism... but the point is, the discussion gets out of the main topic, that is... "AP holders...."

my opinion is that to get back on track if there is anything related to say, or be silent otherwise.

regarding AP's, i think that it is time for the goverment to stop using AP's for imported cars, if they want to tax it, tax it then. stop giving this "free money" to a group of people.
 
malaysia can learn

ericee said:
deacon said:
... the worst part is that malays from singapore hate singapore because they feel subjugated against all the time. being forced to speak english as a primary language and having malay as their second language really pisses them off ...
Majorities of my friends in SPore are Malays themselves & they are glad not to be born Malaysian.
perhaps there are two, well defined, types of malays in singapore and the rest which fall somewhere between these two forms. one group is happy and the other group is not. hopefully the majority of singaporeans are happy with their country. either way, malaysia can learn from singapore's failures and successes.
 
alexz said:
now about the unity and advancement... see malaysia is not japan, korea... those are not multi racial countries... and we are also not like the good ol' US of A coz here the majority is ingenious ppl, where in US where majority of them are immigrants and the ingenious ppl lives in reserves or somthin'

japan and korea has more ppl in their countries to sustain their growth, and most of their products are for export. malaysia builds cars mostly for local consumption, and there is only that many ppl who is going to buy cars in malaysia.

yes protection is not good. advantages to a selected few also is not good. but what about some advantage to increase the living standards of many?

maybe you feel disadvantaged. but do you really want to live in a country where you can see so many ppl who is poorer than you... and hate you coz you are richer then them? thats what is happening to the chinese in indonesia, you dont want that to happen to you here right?


hey the ol' US of A is a country of oportunities and built with the dreams of all immigrants for wanting a better life. have you stayed there before? i have, in new york for a year.

read the bloody american history. the amerian indians are more content with staying in the reserves because there is no federal jurisdiction in the reserves. it's mostly converted into casinos now and they are raking in millions from minimal taxation. also there is no duites in tabacco and alcohol there.

it's is the free enterprise and no restrictions in doing business that made it the super power it is today. there are laws gainst cartels and monopoly. a land where free speech is encouraged.

the jews came to US as poor refuges and became filthy rich because the worked hard and owe nobody anything. same as the chinese who was left for dead after building the railroads, went to frisco during the gold rush and made soemthing for themselves. every race be it the irish, italians, greek, turks, poles arrived with nothing and worked their arses off. if you're rich you would not be in america. that is the american dream.

it's the same as the rest of the races here in south east asia. read lim goh tong's, loh boon siew's bio. everyone came to this land with nothing and everyone started with a clean slate. how many of the early pioneers died because of disease and the long journey. the only thing that kept our ancestors from pushing harder is a promise of a better living for themselves and for their children and their children's children. it's better to die trying than to die of starvation in china.

the ppl who riot are idiots and who refuse to work but insist on taking a share. the world is full of oportunities if you jsut sit up, look around and work for it. nothing in this world comes free. god help those who help themselves.

the bumi's sell their rights to others and are more content with sitting down and taking in a cut every month. but it's the other races who still ahve to work to pay off others. one person is doing multiple person's job. is this fair? why can't we question the government?

yes, i am not an original citizen. i am only paying my rent to have a right to stay here. treat us badly and we will eventually leave one day. it is sad we will always be treated as the unwanted child of this country.
 
two different sampans

Lord Pheonix said:
regarding AP's, i think that it is time for the goverment to stop using AP's for imported cars, if they want to tax it, tax it then. stop giving this "free money" to a group of people.
i agree with this solution.

another thing is the discussions in this thread had never been 'racist'; no more than the fact that AP is a bumiputra issue and not a racial issue. bumiputra is not a race but it is a special or specific group of people living in malaysia. it just so happened that during some discussion, some people who had no good intentions allege that some members are racist. there is a possiblity that they are from other countries who wish to sow problems among malaysians.

as the AP is a special permit given to bumiputras (which do not comprise of orang asli, all non-muslim malays or those of other races in malaysia), it directly affects only those which are in the bumiputra category. if there are any bumiputra which did not gain from this special permit, that's their loss. the minister in charge of issuing the AP insisted that only hard working bumiputras received APs. if only a few received this special permit, then the minister is using this as an explanation that the rest did not work hard.

however the AP does affect the malaysian automotive industry just like drugs affect malaysian productivity and health. so it becomes a national issue which affects all malaysians.

does the cost of maintaining the APs affect the local automotive industry? yes it does, as the investment could have been used to support the national car industry and improve it. the reason behind the AP is to allow bumiputras a chance to be involved in the automotive business. what is the use of proton then? isn't proton a bumiputra business involved in the automotive industry? why is there a need to have two separate 'opportunities'? --- if a man were to put each of his legs into two different sampans, it will not be steady.

the AP should have been scrapped in 1985 but twenty years later, it is still not too late to scrap it and concentrate on the long established bumiputra foray in the automotive industry. it is also important to maintain proton because malaysians have invested for so long by using its products. if it were to collapse overnight as what some strange people propose, what will be the cost to those who only had protons all their life? can they afford to scrap their vehicles and replace them with those brought in by the AP kings when the spare parts are all consumed?
 
as the AP is a special permit given to bumiputras (which do not comprise of orang asli, all non-muslim malays or those of other races in malaysia), it directly affects only those which are in the bumiputra category.

If this is not discrimination, what is?
Apparently, we are not supposed to question bumiputra rights, so I wont.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient-menuext&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Public+questioning+of+rights%22


the minister in charge of issuing the AP insisted that only hard working bumiputras received APs.
:D I like her sense of humour:D
what is the use of proton then?

APs help suck money from people who buy imported cars;
Proton sucks money from people who buy local cars
As long as you buy a car, your ass is screwed.

why is there a need to have two separate 'opportunities'?
To efficiently initiate the ass-screwing process.

the AP should have been scrapped in 1985 but twenty years later, it is still not too late to scrap it and concentrate on the long established bumiputra foray in the automotive industry. it is also important to maintain proton because malaysians have invested for so long by using its products. if it were to collapse overnight as what some strange people propose, what will be the cost to those who only had protons all their life?
You agreed that the AP system should be abolished 20yrs ago, and I concur.
Maintain proton? I dont think so. If I were to run the country, I want it removed from my sight within 2years.
Current owners do not need to worry about parts, because the market is flooded with imitation parts that performs better and yet, cheaper. OEM parts can be used as a substitute. Once the vehicle is done for, it's time to change, and it wouldnt be costly to switch to a japanese car due to the abolished AP system.
Job opportunities? We had the chance to be the automotive hub for southeast asia, but screwed it up and lost the chance to Thailand. The reason? Everybody knows. Job opportunities and national income would have increased if we had retained the manufacturers.
The policy and venture should have been aborted years ago, but not done. Look at the effects. One must know when to cut his losses and admit failure. Are you saying that we should wait till they screw us deeper in the butt-hole?
 
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ericee said:
I have no idea where u get this from.. DO read LKY memoirs & u will understand the reason behind it. Im not going to waste my time to provide u with more eg's & evidences.. Majorities of my friends in SPore are Malays themselves & they are glad not to be born Malaysian.

perhaps we don't hang around the same circles my experience has been one that results in what i perceive is displeasure with singaporean malays in singapore. mostly 'cos they moved here to malaysia where they feel more welcomed
 
proton owners

boggysv said:
Maintain proton? I dont think so. If I were to run the country, I want it removed from my sight within 2years.
Current owners do not need to worry about parts, because the market is flooded with imitation parts that performs better and yet, cheaper. OEM parts can be used as a substitute. Once the vehicle is done for, it's time to change, and it wouldnt be costly to switch to a japanese car due to the abolished AP system.
ya, i proposed this because i am worried that those who have bought protons will suffer from losing their warranty and not knowing where to get service and support.

--- the rover group in britain just collapsed and they are making a big hoo haa there. ---

the hope i'm placing in this is that with a new management that follows the japanese style of R&D, manufacturing and management, proton can turn around into a respectable company. there is also a need to shape up lotus because it is a troubled company. afterall it has british roots and they had too many different automotive companies some time ago and one by one each one of them ran into trouble.

perhaps if they continued making spare parts for proton owners, then it won't be so bad to shut down proton. however, the significant loss of jobs will create yet another problem and when a lot of people cannot find jobs (because then there won't be any automotive industry in malaysia which can employ their skills), problems will emerge again with the target being those who managed their business or careers properly.

let's hope the people with the power to do so, take one step at a time to properly determine what is totally useless to malaysia and what can still be salvaged for the good of its people.
 
deacon said:
perhaps we don't hang around the same circles my experience has been one that results in what i perceive is displeasure with singaporean malays in singapore. mostly 'cos they moved here to malaysia where they feel more welcomed

Welcomed? To me is just an excuse of not able to survive on the fair playing field.
 
ericee said:
Welcomed? To me is just an excuse of not able to survive on the fair playing field.

guys,
as i suggested, please stick to the main topic... if u and your group doesn't want to obey it, i'm afraid that i have to vote for this topic to be 'LOCKED', because its starts to get on people nerves here... if you still want to talk about it, i suggest that u open a new topic elsewhere, because this section is generally for 'car talk', so XXXX off u bunch of stubborn!!! :mad: :mad:
 
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Lord Pheonix said:
guys,
as i suggested, please stick to the main topic... if u and your group doesn't want to obey it, i'm afraid that i have to vote for this topic to be 'LOCKED', because its starts to get on people nerves here... if you still want to talk about it, i suggest that u open a new topic elsewhere, because this section is generally for 'car talk', so XXXX off u bunch of stubborn!!! :mad: :mad:

JUlie got to do with car too? :p After all it's the most viewed thread currently.. DO what u wanna do.. what is XXXX btw? :rolleyes:
 
cossie said:
a motor race is unique as it is man-made and the rules are man-made with not much choice. humans were made by god and god gave men complete freedom to make their own choices.

how can anyone start off with less of their abilities? if this is the way god made a person, then there's not much choice to be had. this has significant results on how much money you will earn. someone better looking will have a greater chance of earning money compared to someone who you despise looking at.

so even if everyone had their money 'confiscated' (or equalized by some other means), sooner or later there will be economic disparity again due to the difference in natural ability of each person. when disparity exist again, then what's going to happen? people are going to scream, "hey let's start all over again on an equal footing!" hello? this is life, it is not a game.

what's the point of working hard when everything gets 'reset' all the time? might as well don't do anything since the outcome will be the same. how many times must the reset button be used? the rest of the world does not work with this switch. is malaysia fantasy island?

it's going to be a big shock when the world is globalized and malaysia has no place in the world. money and influence go hand in hand. if malaysia does not have enough money then, we will have no say in any global policies. malaysians will not be able to protect themselves in the world. malaysians need to know that they live in a world and malaysia is not the only country in it. it's no fun if all the grand prix cars are in the midst of a race and the malaysian contender comes into the pits each lap to be 'fixed'.

can you imagine making the olympic rules such that each contestant must go through surgery to make sure they are all competiting on an equal basis? might as well benchmark similar intel processors from the same batch. if this sort of policy exist, it only staves creativity, desires, nationalism and patriotism among all the other traits necessary for national growth.
in an ideal malaysia, the race would be like a same-make series where all drivers receive similar cars and tech support, and the drivers compete based on their skill alone
 
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i think the vision of dr. M was noble and correct 20 years ago. that is to build a car manufacturing industry which could be globally competitive. but sadly, the implementation was all screwed and we ended up with proton.
 
sta said:
i think the vision of dr. M was noble and correct 20 years ago. that is to build a car manufacturing industry which could be globally competitive. but sadly, the implementation was all screwed and we ended up with proton.
i agree with u saying dr.M was to build a car manufacturing industry to compete with global market. but now all screwed, by whom? u & me knows..., y? cos they r greedy.
de "bumiputra" they hav in their mind is not all the malays (bumis) but JUST FEW OF THEM... they r helping "bumis", they r rite in THEIR way though...
 
cossie said:

the hope i'm placing in this is that with a new management that follows the japanese style of R&D, manufacturing and management, proton can turn around into a respectable company. there is also a need to shape up lotus because it is a troubled company. afterall it has british roots and they had too many different automotive companies some time ago and one by one each one of them ran into trouble.


Perhaps Proton should attach itself firmly to Lotus design. After all Lotus designed the Elise and Esprit, which in my mind are great looking cars with plenty of purpose in terms of speed and function. In terms of engines going to a French company like Renault to build engines or designs for us isn't the best idea in the world i feel. At the end of the day with all the design plans for engines and schematics from Mitsu i am sure someone could sneakily come up with a more advance design copy just changing things here and there a bit.

I believe its all about ingenuity. R&D is key R3 is a great concept but they should take it a step further, by step i mean huge step forward. Any car bearing the badge R3 should embody class, quality, style, speed, form and function. While i am not saying that it isn't but there are a few things that could have been changed in the Satria R3. But, i digress. Talk is cheap, want to be proud of your proton it needs to go forward in every department. Campro on Gen 2 that makes some 120hp at the crank just doesn't do it for me. Maybe i got my shit wrong but i digress again haha. More on AP's it's good learning info!
 
reedoor said:
i agree with u saying dr.M was to build a car manufacturing industry to compete with global market. but now all screwed, by whom? u & me knows..., y? cos they r greedy.
de "bumiputra" they hav in their mind is not all the malays (bumis) but JUST FEW OF THEM... they r helping "bumis", they r rite in THEIR way though...

I was always under the impression that Mitsu has been screwing Proton in the ass with its contractual agreement charging us more for changes and all? Though i can't say for sure but if someone could shed some light on that it would be great for my personal info.
 
Kopi said:
so... is there anything done in here except talking and talking?

what to do? please enlighten us. :P

1)hire killer from thailand to assasin mama fat R?
2)place bomb in putra LRT and intra kota bus ?
3) strip naked and run infront of paliament house?
4)group up ZTH and form revolution and take over the control so formed "The Republic of Zerotohundred"
5) anymore suggestion?
 

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