Open pod on Automatic car

[yewly1990]

K&N has their own proprietary oil. Use back the same.

I probably should do a mythbuster article on this but Mightcarmods have done it already. And they did the test between stock, drop in, open pod (no brand) and open pod with CAI. The one that delivered the best results was stock. It was all done on a R34 Skyline mind you.

I have my reservations on this but it does settle some debates. I've personally been messing around with open pods, varied length piping, and all. Right now I'm using drop in and that says a lot. I did all this on my 3-speed auto too.

Standard length piping and open pod with no heatshield - lost a lot of low end to mid torque. High was fantastic. But realistically how often do you get to use that range of power band?

Short piping with open pod with heat shield and CAI - lost low end torque, mid and high was reasonably good.

Super long piping all the way into the bumper, shielded piping, open pod and CAI - lost low end but mid to high was pretty good. But had issues with water being sucked up. Removed CAI and problem solved. Biggest problem was filter got dirty super duper fast and to remove it I had to remove my bumper. Bloody nuisance.

Drop in + CAI - Can't really tell the difference until you put in a stock OEM filter, then you'll realize just how good the drop-in is. CAI picks up a lot of stones, dust and dirt.

Completely filterless and straight CAI into intake manifold - low end sucked big time mid to high was bloody loud. Intake noise is unbelievably loud with performance only at the much higher revs.

Conclusion - I'm a lazy ass. So drop in without CAI is what I chose to use. I have a air passage way to the filter but not a direct flow with a CAI. Water and dirt is too much for me to be concerned about since my car is relatively low.

And you don't need a piggyback to utilize a drop in or whatever la. Most modern cars have adaptive ECUs so give it a day or two and it'll adapt. Basic formula is :

Fuel + air = power

More fuel + more air = more power.

If fuel is standard + more air = running lean. ECU will pump in more fuel eventually and compensate. Piggybacks can only optimize these settings to a certain extent since most stock ECUs are programmed to be conservative in the first place.

Yes, after I change to drop in, much more fuel consume because of ecu setting, i need a piggyback to balance it back, this is what the consultant tell me .

And another problem is, I think R34 original air box is very good enough, that`s why the stock box are better, they din`t test on every single car.

Example some car like mine, my stock air box pipe was somewhere near the alternator and engine, and also behind the radiator fans, the stock air box keep soaking the heat air and the fuel consume become high, I had actually tried to take out the stock intake pipe , replace it with a DIY CAI hose, and seal the gabs, the fuel consume are lesser. I get a same result as u, those small rock was entering and I found that the air box is getting wet inside when raining, so end up I took it out.

I was thinking to do the open pod, because I personally think that my stock air box design is not good enough, maybe I change it and I will become better. I din`t said the mighty car mod was wrong, just sometimes things are subjectively, I believe that maybe different car having different situation, I just hope I can makes mine better than stock anyway.

 

[Veloc]

Yes, after I change to drop in, much more fuel consume because of ecu setting, i need a piggyback to balance it back, this is what the consultant tell me .

And another problem is, I think R34 original air box is very good enough, that`s why the stock box are better, they din`t test on every single car.

Example some car like mine, my stock air box pipe was somewhere near the alternator and engine, and also behind the radiator fans, the stock air box keep soaking the heat air and the fuel consume become high, I had actually tried to take out the stock intake pipe , replace it with a DIY CAI hose, and seal the gabs, the fuel consume are lesser. I get a same result as u, those small rock was entering and I found that the air box is getting wet inside when raining, so end up I took it out.

I was thinking to do the open pod, because I personally think that my stock air box design is not good enough, maybe I change it and I will become better. I din`t said the mighty car mod was wrong, just sometimes things are subjectively, I believe that maybe different car having different situation, I just hope I can makes mine better than stock anyway.

I see another DIYer and mythbuster in the making. Once again, i admire your passion bro.

---------- Post added at 02:45 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:41 AM ----------

K&N has their own proprietary oil. Use back the same.

I probably should do a mythbuster article on this but Mightcarmods have done it already. And they did the test between stock, drop in, open pod (no brand) and open pod with CAI. The one that delivered the best results was stock. It was all done on a R34 Skyline mind you.

I have my reservations on this but it does settle some debates. I've personally been messing around with open pods, varied length piping, and all. Right now I'm using drop in and that says a lot. I did all this on my 3-speed auto too.

Standard length piping and open pod with no heatshield - lost a lot of low end to mid torque. High was fantastic. But realistically how often do you get to use that range of power band?

Short piping with open pod with heat shield and CAI - lost low end torque, mid and high was reasonably good.

Super long piping all the way into the bumper, shielded piping, open pod and CAI - lost low end but mid to high was pretty good. But had issues with water being sucked up. Removed CAI and problem solved. Biggest problem was filter got dirty super duper fast and to remove it I had to remove my bumper. Bloody nuisance.

Drop in + CAI - Can't really tell the difference until you put in a stock OEM filter, then you'll realize just how good the drop-in is. CAI picks up a lot of stones, dust and dirt.

Completely filterless and straight CAI into intake manifold - low end sucked big time mid to high was bloody loud. Intake noise is unbelievably loud with performance only at the much higher revs.

Conclusion - I'm a lazy ass. So drop in without CAI is what I chose to use. I have a air passage way to the filter but not a direct flow with a CAI. Water and dirt is too much for me to be concerned about since my car is relatively low.

And you don't need a piggyback to utilize a drop in or whatever la. Most modern cars have adaptive ECUs so give it a day or two and it'll adapt. Basic formula is :

Fuel + air = power

More fuel + more air = more power.

If fuel is standard + more air = running lean. ECU will pump in more fuel eventually and compensate. Piggybacks can only optimize these settings to a certain extent since most stock ECUs are programmed to be conservative in the first place.

Thanks bro... Your results sounds completely probable and sticks very much to theory. I want to ask for your opinion.... If you haven't done it, maybe just an educated guess. What do you think of standard length piping with open pod with heat shield and non-sealed CAI?

What I'm trying to achieve is better breathing at top end without sacrificing low end, mid range and fuel economy. I guess this is the most balance set up. But what do you think?

 

[4gbanger]

on my opinion, i would stick to stock air box. in mechanical wise, steel is a good heat conductor. so thats why steel heated up quickly. stock airbox is plastic. it heated up but really time consuming. some of my fren's N/A drag car even uses PU water pipes instead of steel or alluminum pipe and tested on track.. just wanna share some info..

 

[yewly1990]

Depends on what brand of wrap. I got a 10 m wrap for RM 60. Some selling for RM 80. Some 5 m wrap already cost RM 50. I bought mine but haven't wrap. And don't forget the clip. They never give enough. Have to buy more. I think I will buy some pipe clips from the hardware shop. Cheaper and tougher.

---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------



Bro, in that case, means long and short ram also not suitable for your case. Use drop in is best. Engine bay heat can reduce if your thermal wrap your exhaust, but still cannot use open pod because too close to the radiator. Maybe try K&N drop in? I believe there is a reason for it being priced higher. Simota ones have some reputation of letting more dust through from my reading in some forums. Not good for engine in the long run.

on my opinion, i would stick to stock air box. in mechanical wise, steel is a good heat conductor. so thats why steel heated up quickly. stock airbox is plastic. it heated up but really time consuming. some of my fren's N/A drag car even uses PU water pipes instead of steel or alluminum pipe and tested on track.. just wanna share some info..

If i use short ram, its not using allunium, if i wanna use long ram, must be use steel.

 

[Jac83]

Are u referring to k&n air filter? If u are then u are seriously misinformed. Pls read the instruction that comes with the box as the k&n air filter require cleaning after a mileage of 50k miles which is equivalent to 80k km lol. Of course u can do cleaning before the 50k miles but I seriously don't think u need to do cleaning and oiling every 5k km of mileage unless u have got too much free time and cash to spare.

 

[TitanRev]

Just to share my experience. Which is similar to Izso...I've also try short ram, long ram, commando style (no air filter), CAI...etc...also the same result as to Izso's

Now all my car I'm opt for drop in only....MT or AT same....I didn't even put CAI just use back all the stock intake piping....Also using short ram or long ram the differences is in a very narrow speed range only.

You want more power it's not all just about having the less restrictive filter it also involves temperature. After looking at your attache images can say your intake runners are fairly small and long well it's good for low to mid torque (city drive, stop n go) but high wend will suffer a bit due to the small runners it limits the amount of air flow.

Then I saw your runners are all snaking over the engine before going into the intake side. Which I would say will contribute a lot of power loss due to heat soaking...Have you tried touching you intake runners after a long drive? if not. try touching it. For me the 1st thing I want to solve the problem is the intake runners situation the air filter just get a drop in.

Your runners I suggest you ceramic coat them. Reduction in intake temp is beneficial and gives your car more power.

Ignition Booster...can show me a pic of that?

The part I don't understand is why you need to change your piping size since your car is consider mildly modified....you should have just stick to the original piping size. What's your piping size now? Do understand that the bigger the piping size the faster the exhaust cools down and becomes more heavy and harder to push out of the exhaust system....

Just sharing my own mild modification steps and method for small CC cars. Just change a drop in air filter, swap out the extractor, replace the mid box and put in good high flow S-flow muffler. Retain the stock piping size. DIY port polish the throttle body, port polish the intake ports and do exhaust port matching. coat or wrap all the black intake piping with aluminium foil (get from tesco or giant) less radiated heat into the intake flow = lower air temp = more power. When you go into modification before you start actually modding the car you need to understand the car driving behavior 1st. If not, you will be spending unnecessary money but with no gain.

Also modding a NA car is not cheap, need a lot of time and understanding, NA is not easy to squeeze more power out like a force induction does so be realistic on your mods and expectation on power gain. Also be clear about the purpose of your mods, to make the car more lively to drive or otherwise because if not you will keep feeling down and disappointed....

My posting might sound harsh but I'm telling the truth as it is..no twist no turn...just straight talk...I hope you don't feel offended. I've modded quite some cars on my own and also have walk through the beginner stage just like you.

Cheers

 

[yewly1990]

Are u referring to k&n air filter? If u are then u are seriously misinformed. Pls read the instruction that comes with the box as the k&n air filter require cleaning after a mileage of 50k miles which is equivalent to 80k km lol. Of course u can do cleaning before the 50k miles but I seriously don't think u need to do cleaning and oiling every 5k km of mileage unless u have got too much free time and cash to spare.

No i talking about simota

 

[cvkit17]

K&N has their own proprietary oil. Use back the same.

I probably should do a mythbuster article on this but Mightcarmods have done it already. And they did the test between stock, drop in, open pod (no brand) and open pod with CAI. The one that delivered the best results was stock. It was all done on a R34 Skyline mind you.

I have my reservations on this but it does settle some debates. I've personally been messing around with open pods, varied length piping, and all. Right now I'm using drop in and that says a lot. I did all this on my 3-speed auto too.

Standard length piping and open pod with no heatshield - lost a lot of low end to mid torque. High was fantastic. But realistically how often do you get to use that range of power band?

Short piping with open pod with heat shield and CAI - lost low end torque, mid and high was reasonably good.

Super long piping all the way into the bumper, shielded piping, open pod and CAI - lost low end but mid to high was pretty good. But had issues with water being sucked up. Removed CAI and problem solved. Biggest problem was filter got dirty super duper fast and to remove it I had to remove my bumper. Bloody nuisance.

Drop in + CAI - Can't really tell the difference until you put in a stock OEM filter, then you'll realize just how good the drop-in is. CAI picks up a lot of stones, dust and dirt.

Completely filterless and straight CAI into intake manifold - low end sucked big time mid to high was bloody loud. Intake noise is unbelievably loud with performance only at the much higher revs.

Conclusion - I'm a lazy ass. So drop in without CAI is what I chose to use. I have an air passage way to the filter but not a direct flow with a CAI. Water and dirt is too much for me to be concerned about since my car is relatively low.

And you don't need a piggyback to utilize a drop in or whatever la. Most modern cars have adaptive ECUs so give it a day or two and it'll adapt. Basic formula is :

Fuel + air = power

More fuel + more air = more power.

If fuel is standard + more air = running lean. ECU will pump in more fuel eventually and compensate. Piggybacks can only optimize these settings to a certain extent since most stock ECUs are programmed to be conservative in the first place.

:vroam:

on my opinion, i would stick to stock air box. in mechanical wise, steel is a good heat conductor. so thats why steel heated up quickly. stock airbox is plastic. it heated up but really time consuming. some of my fren's N/A drag car even uses PU water pipes instead of steel or alluminum pipe and tested on track.. just wanna share some info..

Nope. Heat isn't conducted into the pipe. It's radiated.

 

[TitanRev]

yewly, another thing...do not use another car's mods gain as a sure answer to your car....your friend is driving MyVi, Vios...YES, they are also 1.5 or 1.3 liter also NA but you need to understand that the engineering specification on the engines on each car is different.

 

[yewly1990]

Just to share my experience. Which is similar to Izso...I've also try short ram, long ram, commando style (no air filter), CAI...etc...also the same result as to Izso's

Now all my car I'm opt for drop in only....MT or AT same....I didn't even put CAI just use back all the stock intake piping....Also using short ram or long ram the differences is in a very narrow speed range only.

You want more power it's not all just about having the less restrictive filter it also involves temperature. After looking at your attache images can say your intake runners are fairly small and long well it's good for low to mid torque (city drive, stop n go) but high wend will suffer a bit due to the small runners it limits the amount of air flow.

Then I saw your runners are all snaking over the engine before going into the intake side. Which I would say will contribute a lot of power loss due to heat soaking...Have you tried touching you intake runners after a long drive? if not. try touching it. For me the 1st thing I want to solve the problem is the intake runners situation the air filter just get a drop in.

Your runners I suggest you ceramic coat them. Reduction in intake temp is beneficial and gives your car more power.

Ignition Booster...can show me a pic of that?

The part I don't understand is why you need to change your piping size since your car is consider mildly modified....you should have just stick to the original piping size. What's your piping size now? Do understand that the bigger the piping size the faster the exhaust cools down and becomes more heavy and harder to push out of the exhaust system....

Just sharing my own mild modification steps and method for small CC cars. Just change a drop in air filter, swap out the extractor, replace the mid box and put in good high flow S-flow muffler. Retain the stock piping size. DIY port polish the throttle body, port polish the intake ports and do exhaust port matching. coat or wrap all the black intake piping with aluminium foil (get from tesco or giant) less radiated heat into the intake flow = lower air temp = more power. When you go into modification before you start actually modding the car you need to understand the car driving behavior 1st. If not, you will be spending unnecessary money but with no gain.

Also modding a NA car is not cheap, need a lot of time and understanding, NA is not easy to squeeze more power out like a force induction does so be realistic on your mods and expectation on power gain. Also be clear about the purpose of your mods, to make the car more lively to drive or otherwise because if not you will keep feeling down and disappointed....

My posting might sound harsh but I'm telling the truth as it is..no twist no turn...just straight talk...I hope you don't feel offended. I've modded quite some cars on my own and also have walk through the beginner stage just like you.

Cheers

Iam looking for someone who give me comment like this,thx for your info. The reason i change pipe size is because the stock size is about1.3 only,jian hang telling me that it is to small for my 1.5l, i remember he change my size to 2.2 of front and 1.7 for back, now waitting for the custom s-flow, and bigger 4-1 extraktor.4-2-1 are not recommended he said facing mounting problem.
Now i m considering about my intake system, i not quite understand about the runner u talking about, ceremic coat on which part? I was thinking to change my works to knn as well, works filter got a lot of bad user review.
I am not really into open pod usually, just put some hope to have small gain.

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

yewly, another thing...do not use another car's mods gain as a sure answer to your car....your friend is driving MyVi, Vios...YES, they are also 1.5 or 1.3 liter also NA but you need to understand that the engineering specification on the engines on each car is different.

Yes, i know ur meaning, i kew is different, as i said some people said that it is sure no gain on performance with open pod, just to let people know, i hve fren which is also automatic with open pod and get good result.

 

[vr2turbo]

Hahaha, I haven't wash or oil mine for more than 10K km already! Who says have to do that every 5K km?

No need clean so fast. I use before and clean when dirty and that is many many kms.....

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------

its the cleaning kit by simota or knn

I just use washing detergent to clean. After dry, oil with atf.....used for many years then sold the car...

 

[TitanRev]

The runner I'm talking about is the black colour part running across your engine for the intake one after you throttle body....you open you picture and see...

 

[desmond0318]

stock ecu = stock filter?
tictac 4G15: Best Intake System for Stock EFI

 

[stupidcar]

This is the engine bay picture, Red line is where the open pod will be, blue was the place I planned to do heat shield

Seriously?! So stuffy! Relocate battery to boot (if possible?) and make place for bigger intake box?

 

[6UE5t]

Seriously?! So stuffy! Relocate battery to boot (if possible?) and make place for bigger intake box?

No surprise, small car trying to maximize cabin space, you'll get cramped engine bay.
Yeah, moving the battery to the boot could be a good idea.

 

[yewly1990]

The runner I'm talking about is the black colour part running across your engine for the intake one after you throttle body....you open you picture and see...

Thx for the suggestion, I will tried it when I do dyno, booking appointment with speedwork now, going to change from extraktor to muffler whole system together to ensure going with works with the open pod, speedwork said they will do the dyno for open pod and original air box and shows that open pod are working when exhaust system was change together.
Let see what they can do for me=\

 

[marsha1l_v6]

Thx for the suggestion, I will tried it when I do dyno, booking appointment with speedwork now, going to change from extraktor to muffler whole system together to ensure going with works with the open pod, speedwork said they will do the dyno for open pod and original air box and shows that open pod are working when exhaust system was change together.
Let see what they can do for me=\

do tell the outcome

 

[Veloc]

Iam looking for someone who give me comment like this,thx for your info. The reason i change pipe size is because the stock size is about1.3 only,jian hang telling me that it is to small for my 1.5l, i remember he change my size to 2.2 of front and 1.7 for back, now waitting for the custom s-flow, and bigger 4-1 extraktor.4-2-1 are not recommended he said facing mounting problem.

Sorry bro I think there is a serious problem here. The shop advised you to use 4-1 extractor because there is no space for a 4-2-1? In that case, forget it. Just use back the stock extractor. 4-1 extractor is very high rpm biased. Town driving will be a torture. 4-2-1 is for low to mid rpm. Try to see those high revving NA players such as B16 or Blacktops. Most of them who use the car daily will use 4-2-1 even though their engines are high rpm.

Im not sure how is the stock manifold for Almera. 4-1 or 4-2-1. I be guessing it is 4-2-1. If the stock car comes with 4-1, then maybe you can use a 4-1 extractor. But if it is 4-2-1, bro, seriously consider what I say. Just some food for thought. Not trying to lecture you or what. but I leaned the hard way messing with my exhaust before.

 

[yewly1990]

Sorry bro I think there is a serious problem here. The shop advised you to use 4-1 extractor because there is no space for a 4-2-1? In that case, forget it. Just use back the stock extractor. 4-1 extractor is very high rpm biased. Town driving will be a torture. 4-2-1 is for low to mid rpm. Try to see those high revving NA players such as B16 or Blacktops. Most of them who use the car daily will use 4-2-1 even though their engines are high rpm.

Im not sure how is the stock manifold for Almera. 4-1 or 4-2-1. I be guessing it is 4-2-1. If the stock car comes with 4-1, then maybe you can use a 4-1 extractor. But if it is 4-2-1, bro, seriously consider what I say. Just some food for thought. Not trying to lecture you or what. but I leaned the hard way messing with my exhaust before.

The stock is 4-1, the shop recommended use 4-1 because 2 reason, 4-2-1 take quite big space, might facing mounting problem. And so, 4-2-1 will bw longer, makes the mounting part different than my stock setting.
But I had went to speedwork, they promised me, open pod 100% works on my ride, they will change my whole exhaust system to balance back with the open pod to makes it work.
But still facing low end suffer.
They RM900 for my open pod installation, rm300 is heat shield. Rm2200 for hotbits whole system single exit, RM2700 if dual exit, but depends on performance, I told if dual was`t good enough will use single.

 

[yewly1990]

Just to share my experience. Which is similar to Izso...I've also try short ram, long ram, commando style (no air filter), CAI...etc...also the same result as to Izso's

Now all my car I'm opt for drop in only....MT or AT same....I didn't even put CAI just use back all the stock intake piping....Also using short ram or long ram the differences is in a very narrow speed range only.

You want more power it's not all just about having the less restrictive filter it also involves temperature. After looking at your attache images can say your intake runners are fairly small and long well it's good for low to mid torque (city drive, stop n go) but high wend will suffer a bit due to the small runners it limits the amount of air flow.

Then I saw your runners are all snaking over the engine before going into the intake side. Which I would say will contribute a lot of power loss due to heat soaking...Have you tried touching you intake runners after a long drive? if not. try touching it. For me the 1st thing I want to solve the problem is the intake runners situation the air filter just get a drop in.

Your runners I suggest you ceramic coat them. Reduction in intake temp is beneficial and gives your car more power.

Ignition Booster...can show me a pic of that?

The part I don't understand is why you need to change your piping size since your car is consider mildly modified....you should have just stick to the original piping size. What's your piping size now? Do understand that the bigger the piping size the faster the exhaust cools down and becomes more heavy and harder to push out of the exhaust system....

Just sharing my own mild modification steps and method for small CC cars. Just change a drop in air filter, swap out the extractor, replace the mid box and put in good high flow S-flow muffler. Retain the stock piping size. DIY port polish the throttle body, port polish the intake ports and do exhaust port matching. coat or wrap all the black intake piping with aluminium foil (get from tesco or giant) less radiated heat into the intake flow = lower air temp = more power. When you go into modification before you start actually modding the car you need to understand the car driving behavior 1st. If not, you will be spending unnecessary money but with no gain.

Also modding a NA car is not cheap, need a lot of time and understanding, NA is not easy to squeeze more power out like a force induction does so be realistic on your mods and expectation on power gain. Also be clear about the purpose of your mods, to make the car more lively to drive or otherwise because if not you will keep feeling down and disappointed....

My posting might sound harsh but I'm telling the truth as it is..no twist no turn...just straight talk...I hope you don't feel offended. I've modded quite some cars on my own and also have walk through the beginner stage just like you.

Cheers

I using the fire storm ignition booster, the slightly high price one, I feels slightly different after install, but need dyno to prove it, weeks later after speedwork done my exhaust and open pod installation, they will do dyno on every single part, and i will update it here show every single part I load in my car to see it works or not.