Piggy Back ECU

[EFN]

It's not a matter of compatibility of Apexi SAFC or Greddy E-Manage, it's just that Toyota 20V ECUs specially AFM models are damm too smart. There's no doubt you can install and tune them on the spot. But maybe after one or two days or even one week, the ECU will [/B]re-learn and compensate[/B] the whole Fuel Curve around whatever settings that has been adjusted using Piggyback. Yes it is still effective, but not as much as it would work on other model of cars. With Piggyback on 20V, you can only hope to adjust Fuel Map on Open Loop mode (80% - W.O Throttle), while in Closed Loop, any reading from the O2 Sensor will be used to compensate Fuel as required. So you see, it's not an easy thing to cheat 20V ECUs. EG9, if you feel that your 20V is not that responsive, it is quite possible that the Throttle Position Sensor and AFM setting is not set properly, my advise go and seek Sifu Accoustic and ask him to check your TPS and AFM, then belanja him makan besar laa. He tune my TPS ONE time onli and until today it's very satisfactory.

Bottomline, if you need more power - save $$$ and go for Cams and Standalone ECU - the only real path to power.

 

[TRD16v]

EG9,
The sifu has spoken. Take his last paragraph word. To go for power CAM and Standalone ECU. It could be FREEDOM, Microtech, haltech, etc. To tune for the TPS and AFM see Sifu Chin for more info :D






Regards,
Mike

 

[QiW]

but no need to buy big lunch or dinner for sifu chin laa ... just offer to pay for new glasses can liauuu ... hahahahahahahaahaha ... i think he will prefer that more ... hahahaahahahahahahaa ...

 

[Jun9970]

.... :unsure:

 

[4agze]

adj cam pulley, high cam and also aftermarket ECU = RM5000+- ?

 

[Acoustic]

Originally posted by QiW@Aug 9 2004, 06:00 PM
but no need to buy big lunch or dinner for sifu chin laa ... just offer to pay for new glasses can liauuu ... hahahahahahahaahaha ... i think he will prefer that more ... hahahaahahahahahahaa ...

hahahaah, read in chinese from now: -

Very got heart - thank you thank you.

No need big dinner, no need buy me spec, accompany me to check eyes can already, but you'll have to pretend is my relative and pay for the RM20 checking :)

 

[Acoustic]

Very very long time ago - I present the possibility of 20v ecu is capable of self compensating with endless possibility.

As usual there is a discussion and debate.

Today, there are more people agreeing to it.

But being a user my self, I also wish piggy bag would work - but I know better - they will not .....

20v ECU does not take O2 sensor as feedback alone. It also takes water temp, air temp, distributor timing versus engine rpm

It also takes guess work like ISC duty cycle for a particular RPM, for a particular TPS, for a particular vehicle speed,

and estimates the gear ratio.

This is my suspicion...

Hi EFN, from Vincent, a E-manage on 20vMAP - was immediately counter attack by 20vMAP ECU.

Another 20vMAP with SAFC also-

I think 20vMAP more inteligent than 20vAFM

My 20vAFM ECU will take 2 weeks to self adjust completely if I do not full throttle everyday.

But if I full throttle for 20 minutes, for all gear ratio, various speeds and all. it will self compensate this fast. 20 mins.

For all I know I only need to simulate all gears full throttle enough already.

 

[EG9]

Wah, look like no way to cheat this 20V AFM ECU.

The only solution is only standalone units...but that will cost arm and leg, furthermore, without Peformance CAM and other mods, I can't fully utilise the the EMS as well.

 

[Acoustic]

Yes, NO WAY to cheat 20v ECU.

Please let me give you another example. This one completely nothing to do with O2 sensor.

Battery newly installed, ECU previous memory all lost. When start engine, ECU uses all default values.

Scenario 1 - assume vacuum hoses plugged wrongly. I.e. the power steering air pressure supply into power steering rack was not connected to power steering but immediately back to intake plenum box.

This will cause the engine to be in constant high idle, since it is blowing extra air into the intake box in a weird manner.

You'll have to assume that a human is constantly turning the steering at super speed and caused the power steering rack valve to open full all the time.

Since power steering turning will draw heavy load on the engine, this feature was engineered and put in to compensate when parking. It's standard on all engines.

OK, back to the scenario. Everyone's idling is 900 rpm when battery newly installed. But my fcuked up vacuum passages made it idling 1,500 rpm.

Since I didn't know this and didn't know why, we did allot of "so-called tuning" to tone it down to 900 rpm. But always have drivability problems after that.

So after many months, I gave up, don't care even after battery removed and reconnected.

It's idle high at 1,500 rpm or so.

After 2 weeks of aunty driving it's come back down to 900 rpm.

Why?

If the ECU is not programmed with high inteligence when I don't know why.

Please note - Idle Speed Control Valve - ISCV is not only used to Idling, but driving, full throttle, deceleration also running.

It will be an extremely difficult process to fine tune the new MAPs on fully programmable.

Therefore I stress to everyone - when you install fully programmable, don't forget about other issues.

Don't concentrate on fuel map alone, must consider ignition map heavily, as well as ISC duty cycle allot allot.

 

[leviathan]

chin, how about 16V ecu?? not smart at all ar???

 

[Acoustic]

Hi Jonn, I've not used a 16v personally over long periods of time. I really don't know and don't dare to say.

You will need to test it yourself. Always remove battery to clear memory, start car and notice idling rpm.

20v should behave like 1,100 for 3 seconds then drop to 900 rpm. If not 3 seconds then probably no more than 20 seconds.

The faster it drops, the more correct all the other settings are.

16v - hopefully should have this trend also, but I really don't know....

I only know 16v have 3 generations, all three have slight modifications done to their intake and hence the mapping is surely different....

The idling method are also very different from 1st gen 16v which uses extra injector for cold start to 3rd gen 16v which is small port without TVIS to run without the extra injector anymore.

Really difficult to say.....

 

[GT20v]

yes.i agree with the chin statement but i have to add something... :D

I always make a assumption that before we WOT the O2 and couple of sensosr will detemined what is the AFR the engine running.But! there is some ecu capable of using the input from before WOT to influence the mixture in WOT.As we know WOT map is derived from manufacturer own map,ecu will ignore the O2 sensor,but in 20v case ,the O2 sensor will influence the map for WOT.
this kind of ecu is made to accordance of OBD2 standard.and this is why i feel that any piggyback couldnt be use on a 20v

 

[Acoustic]

I agree with GT20v, but our 20v ECU not official OBD2, official on level 1.

It's like DirectX8.1 to 9, maybe 20vAFM is 8.3 while 20vMAP is 8.7 then finally 2ZZGE is 9

 

[fai]

Sifu Acoustic, how about 4AFE ECU? My idle high. How do I reset the ECU? Just disconnect the battery?

 

[EFN]

Originally posted by fai@Aug 10 2004, 05:09 PM
Sifu Acoustic, how about 4AFE ECU? My idle high. How do I reset the ECU? Just disconnect the battery?

Fai, what model of Corolla do you have AE101 or AE111. Well from my experience, AE101 4A-FE DOES NOT HAVE O2 Sensor. An our Samurai Sensei Yolk have come across some 4A-FE with O2 Sensor.

Now what does this means? that means that 4A-FE wihout O2 sensor will always use default STATIC AFR Map, I cannot confirm if it have Closed Loop (where O2 Sensor is used). 4A-FE equipped with O2 Sensor should operate similarly to 4A-GE.

If your 4A-FE (without O Sensor model) is having high idle, then it could be something else that cause it, like exhaust leakage, vacuum leakage, vacuum blocked, PCV Hose Blocked etc, etc.

 

[TRD16v]

I agree with samurai sifu yolk my dad is driving SEG also has O2 sensor :)






Regards,
Mike

 

[4agze]

siffo chin, when my car is cooled down, say >24 hours never starts, then when i start the car, idling at 1100-1200rpm for few minutes... so is it normal ar?

:lol:

 

[fai]

Originally posted by EFN+Aug 10 2004, 05:33 PM-->

QUOTE (EFN @ Aug 10 2004, 05:33 PM)

--QuoteBegin-fai

@Aug 10 2004, 05:09 PM Sifu Acoustic, how about 4AFE ECU? My idle high. How do I reset the ECU? Just disconnect the battery?

Fai, what model of Corolla do you have AE101 or AE111. Well from my experience, AE101 4A-FE DOES NOT HAVE O2 Sensor. An our Samurai Sensei Yolk have come across some 4A-FE with O2 Sensor. Now what does this means? that means that 4A-FE wihout O2 sensor will always use default STATIC AFR Map, I cannot confirm if it have Closed Loop (where O2 Sensor is used). 4A-FE equipped with O2 Sensor should operate similarly to 4A-GE. If your 4A-FE (without O Sensor model) is having high idle, then it could be something else that cause it, like exhaust leakage, vacuum leakage, vacuum blocked, PCV Hose Blocked etc, etc. [/b][/quote] EFN, I'm driving AE101. How do I know my car have O2 sensor or not? Just check near the extractor? If dun have, that mean no use I reset ECU? How to check all u mention? I thinking send back to Toyota SC. My friend said diagnoss only cost Rm180.00. Mmmm...that my last choice. Thanx,man. Cheers.

 

[fai]

Originally posted by 4agze@Aug 10 2004, 05:45 PM
siffo chin, when my car is cooled down, say >24 hours never starts, then when i start the car, idling at 1100-1200rpm for few minutes... so is it normal ar?

:lol:

4agze, I dunno about 4AGE but when I start my car, my rpm is around 1200-1300. I think it normal after u didn't start your car after long time period. Cheers.

 

[LevinBZG]

hi
im new ere, i have a 2000 toyota levin BZG ae111 with the 4AGE 20v Black top. i was gonna put a SAFC II in mine but after reading this was thinking not so.

so what is recommeded to make full use of engine mods? do i have to go for a standalone? they are big big bucks ere in ireland

some mods to the engine include apexi power intake, apexi 4-1 manifold and RSR exhaust.