Calling the people with E-manage on their 20v.

[katopunk]

My mind is still confused with piggyback on our 20v.
I've heard alot of mixed opinion of piggyback on 20v. be it safc or emanage. some said it works perfectly. some said it won't work cause the ecu is too smart to override the value.

and yes, i'm using safc at the current moment. and i'm feeling nothing significant after fixing it on. wanna safe fuel by setting more -ve correction factor also safe fuel. :hmmmm:

i found a nice debate thread regarding emanage and 20v started by otai yolk in wheelsjamaica forum.
http://www.wheelsjamaica.com/wheels_forum/index.php?topic=15795.0

guys with e-manage on 20v check it out. and say your opinions. :hmmmm:

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

I got e-manage but not yet fitted to my greytop,quite busy nowadays...

 

[katopunk]

ngekngek... mat, greytop lo... =3 busy still can online heh... hahaha

i've decided to remove my safc for the time being. maybe you try 1st the emanage 1st. then you tell me the result...

bro mat, to my knowledge. please correct me if i'm wrong.
safc works by altering the sensor voltage signal before it goes into the ecu. while emanage alters the output signal from the ecu. am i right?

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

Punk,me busy doing nothing,haha.Yes you're correct,SAFC works that way,but e-manage also works that way.It still bypass the airflow/map sensor signal,but it has an extra feature that add the pulsewidth after the ecu have calculate.My thinking is under closed loop cruising,it maybe wont work,but at WOT,should be OK.I will write a report card when i got it to run,hehe

 

[pcmoddingmy]

E-manage works on AE111 BT, 100% confirmed..... else why would Greddy list it on the compatibility list?
We have a few members here with E-managed who have installed and using it for ages.

However, you must have the ignition harness to prevent BT's ECU from ignoring the E-manage. Without the ignition harness, your tuning will be wasted as the ECU will slowly ignore the piggyback.

My advice, better get it installed by someone who has already done it before on 20V. Self-tuning should be avoided if you don't have proper wideband 02 sensor.

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

Can explain more about the ignition harness? SAFC also have 4AGE in their compatibility list,but somehow ppls say SAFC dont work with 20V..

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Can explain more about the ignition harness? SAFC also have 4AGE in their compatibility list,but somehow ppls say SAFC dont work with 20V..

Ignition harness is for ignition timing control. Without this, the stock BT ECU will revert back to original ignition timing to protect the engine. E-manage with ignition timing control prevents the stock ECU to "drop" the timing, which might cause to loose power.

Yes, AE111 4AGE is listed on Apexi SAFC's list but I've heard a lot of unsuccessful stories about it as well. But my tuner told me that SAFC would work on 20V and it will not revert. So, I guess it depends on the skill and knowledge of the tuner when installing SAFC. Perhaps, someone should email Apexi for support regarding BT.

 

[katopunk]

thanks prem. now i understand why we need ignition harness to control the timing. how about injector harness? izit necessary?

do you manage to save fuel from your emanage? i mean in close loop. normal driving not hardcore style. how about open loop that time? did you felt the difference in performance after you throw emanage into your machine?

any fancy fancy things (features) that emanage can do? hahaha...

 

[pcmoddingmy]

thanks prem. now i understand why we need ignition harness to control the timing. how about injector harness? izit necessary?

do you manage to save fuel from your emanage? i mean in close loop. normal driving not hardcore style. how about open loop that time? did you felt the difference in performance after you throw emanage into your machine?

any fancy fancy things (features) that emanage can do? hahaha...

Well, injector harness is not necessary but if you can get it then your e-manage will be complete for NA tunning. Can DIY mah!

As for FC, I cant really tell but it helps when going long distance. I think the tuner had increased the AF on low-revs and decreased it on the high-revs. So I can feel the acceleration is better on low-revs unlike previously. BT will feel really slugish below 3krpm, so thats why the AF was increased on the low-end.

As for full throttle (open loop), I can feel the improvement and the engine responds better. I could feel slight wheel spin at about 6krpm on 1st gear, which didn't exist before the e-manage. FC was also improved in this case and AF was reduced on the high-end. However, i'm still running on stock headers which is limiting the power. Plus, I'm on a s-flow exhaust...

As for e-manage features, you can check out Greddy's website. I haven't had a chance to tune it myself and I dont have wideband 02 sensor to go along. Plus, e-manage needs a lappy with a serial rs232 port. Besides AFC, ignition timing and injector control, the software allows VTEC shifting point (works with VVT as well), engine anti-stall, aux output, acceleration map and boost limit cut. Pair it up with Profec E01 and you shall tune e-manage without a lappy.

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

OK thanks pcmoddingmy,i will hook both injection and ignition harness then.I think most problem why ppl say SAFC and e-manage doesnt work is because of the closed loop A/F control,and the ignition timing as you said.To the best of my knowledge (and tests i've done),the standard ecu goes closed loop on cruising,not when WOT,so i'm confused why ppl say it doesnt work.It should work on WOT condition.Since the Ignition timing map is using the Map sensor voltage for ignition timing,adding fuel will cause it to retard a bit on Safc (good for turbo/SC),not so good on N/A.BT ignition timing very conservatives,i compared both my Freedom and standard BT,standard one almost no knocking up until 7.5k rpm at WOT (Slight knock monitored with SAFC2,not so accurate).Very good knock control architecture.

I have done wideband datalogging with EG9 on the standard BT ecu A/F,it is quite lean actually (using tailpipe clip-not so accurate compared to screw on extractor),it was showing 14-13 up until 7k rpm then drop to 12.8-12.5 until 8k+.I would say that the standard ecu is the best for a standard engine,in terms of all around performance.Power,ECO,Emissions...

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

After a while,i managed to wire my e-manage,but not yet tuned...

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

I'm also very interested in the e-manage lar coz my BT auto very sluggish between 1-3k rpm lar...

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

not much thing can do bout the auto box..e-manage wont make it on par with the manual either,the best thing is,convert to manual..hehe

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

not much thing can do bout the auto box..e-manage wont make it on par with the manual either,the best thing is,convert to manual..hehe

I understand it being an auto. It's just that perhaps it's running a little rich around the 1-3k rpm area, so probably I could tune to lean it with the e-manage so that it'll be a little more responsive, that's all.

I've seen very good results of what the e-manage could do to improve on an auto trans, bro. Unfortunately, it wasn't a 20v. My friend's Mitsu V6 saw 20+ ps gain from the e-manage tuning. The won't fly but it was much more pleasant to drive after the tuning, much more responsive.

But I don't know if similiar results can bee obtained from the 20v.

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Actually IMO, there's little benefit increasing HP on 20V unless the speed/rev cut is removed. More HP = More power = More speed, right? So its better to have E-manage tune the torque, pickup and acceleration on 20V. I've just flashed my E-manage to 1.49 and now acceleration map is available for tuning =)

So if speed/rev cut still exists, better focus on tuning e-manage to delivery smooth power, better response and acceleration rather than HP. I had bad experience getting my e-manage installed in Ipoh as the tuner didnt do a good job.

The installation was good, but the tuning part sucked. I mean, he just plugged his laptop and done tuning with the car just stationary in his workshop. However, he did plugin a wideband o2 sensor though... but since no dynotuning in Ipoh, he should at least do on the road tuning.

This caused me to return to the shop for a few times... at least trice for retuning, FOC though. My BT showed knocking on normal driving and even with the ignition map set all to "0", knocking was still there. So I got fedup and did the ignition tuning myself, didn't mess the Airflow map coz I dont have wideband. I've upgraded both sw/fw to 1.49 and it felt easier to tune. So I drove the car around with support tool continuous map tracing both airflow and ignition. I noticed spots where the engine knocking occurred and reduced ignition timing until there's no more knocking. Now I've reduced knocking and the engine runs better and smoother as I've enabled acceleration map.

More testing to come and I'll probably post my screenshots on the ECU section at ZTH for some pro advice. E-manage will be fun to tune if you have a wideband o2 controller and g-tech for HP reading. Also, there's an opensource software for e-manage that does AUTOTUNING. Google for E-manage Tools Alpha:

http://immo.rizing.nl/images/greddy/tool2.jpg

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

I'm not aiming Hp gain or top speed with the e-manage. All I want is to reduce the sluggishness of the lower revs. I drove my friend's Perdana before & after the e-manage installation. I noticed quite a big difference in the responsiveness.

I also understand that different car will produce different results. That's why I'm curious to know if anyone has installed the e-manage on a BT with auto trans.

That's what I want, if I wanted Hp, I wouldn't have taken an auto trans in the first place lor, besides, I've another car with manual trans mar.... Hehehe.

 

[pcmoddingmy]

I'm not aiming Hp gain or top speed with the e-manage. All I want is to reduce the sluggishness of the lower revs. I drove my friend's Perdana before & after the e-manage installation. I noticed quite a big difference in the responsiveness.

I also understand that different car will produce different results. That's why I'm curious to know if anyone has installed the e-manage on a BT with auto trans.

That's what I want, if I wanted Hp, I wouldn't have taken an auto trans in the first place lor, besides, I've another car with manual trans mar.... Hehehe.

Yup... I know your situation, you want more torque/pickup at lower RPM.
Perhaps, you should be the first one to test E-manage on BT auto. I dont think anyone here has done it before and only a few users here using E-manage on BT. In fact, not many 20V is powered with E-manage, thus the lack of info on the net.

On the other side, my tuner offered me RM2K for Protec standalone ECU + installation + tuning. Maybe you can consider this... but his tuning really suck!

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

Yup... I know your situation, you want more torque/pickup at lower RPM.
Perhaps, you should be the first one to test E-manage on BT auto. I dont think anyone here has done it before and only a few users here using E-manage on BT. In fact, not many 20V is powered with E-manage, thus the lack of info on the net.

On the other side, my tuner offered me RM2K for Protec standalone ECU + installation + tuning. Maybe you can consider this... but his tuning really suck!

Hahaha. Bro PCMod knows me best ! I don't think I want to be a guinea pig just yet. Maybe I should just wait & see.

No confidence in the Protec lar

 

[20V Quard Cam]

i ve one fren with just 4afe standard with A/T,aft he installed the e-manage,he can tapao my BT(A/T) with stock ecu. His pickup is vry horror till i miss 2 tiang far far away ='(

anyway,same as 2 old 2 rusty,my aim oso at the low-end-torque. It's a fact that BT is sluggish b4 3k rpm. I ve a fren he installed kinda stuff(i ve 4gotten wats the name) which installed inside the throttle,4 pieces..after installed really have a big big difference whn pick up.

but,wat i worry is,if installed the e-manage in the Bt,Should we upgrade other things such as sport piston or cam cz i tot if keep revving liddat the engine will kong vry fast.thx for guiding me =)

 

[pcmoddingmy]

4AFE A/T + E-manage can tapau BT A/T stock? Perhaps you didn't floor it properly... lol
Anyways, the thing you install at the throttle is known as trumpet or velocity stacks.
As for installing e-manage, no need to change piston or cam... only turbo need to change all those components. However, having high-comp piston and higher-lift cam helps to improve compression and overall power delivery. E-manage can do way better on modded engine.