Lap Times

[faisal]

Faisal,

I must say the figure is quite low for a factory tuned car. Why can't you (Proton) achieved a higher bhp? How's the tork like? I'm sure even Stage 2 SR3 had a higher figure? Or did I missed something? BTW the gen2 got 4g93 under its bonnet, right? Oh yes one more thing, how many laps did it lasted for a full tank of gas? Thanks.

Cheers.

You did miss something. You've mistaken the GEN2 Tarmac Rally car ( 1.8 4G93) with the GEN 2 MME Race Car (1.6 CAMPRO) which was able o compete in Class C of the MME the cars , meant for production cars.

150 bhp at the flywheel of a 1.6 ltr N/A CAMPRO is not low for a car that had to compete for 12hrs. Maybe if it was a Sprint race the engine would be higher tuned pumping more ponies.

Oh yes did I mention it also uses the much vaunted Seimens ECU.

I don't have the torque and fuel consumption figures . At the MME the maximum driving time is 75 minutes at one go ..and there was still enuff fuel to last till the next stop .

 

[niceputera]

You did miss something. You've mistaken the GEN2 Tarmac Rally car ( 1.8 4G93) with the GEN 2 MME Race Car (1.6 CAMPRO) which was able o compete in Class C of the MME the cars , meant for production cars.

150 bhp at the flywheel of a 1.6 ltr N/A CAMPRO is not low for a car that had to compete for 12hrs. Maybe if it was a Sprint race the engine would be higher tuned pumping more ponies.

Oh yes did I mention it also uses the much vaunted Seimens ECU.

I don't have the torque and fuel consumption figures . At the MME the maximum driving time is 75 minutes at one go ..and there was still enuff fuel to last till the next stop .

Faisal,

Therefore I believe reliability and fuel consumption is the aspects that R3 was looking into. It's fine, but HMRT car has been reported to have at least 280WHP with a top notch reliability and fuel consumption too (i'm not comparing 1.6 and 2.0 displacement here).

I don't mind the ecu bare it siemens or mmc, as long as you got the mapping than you can tailor it to the respective engine. Only those who don't understand will say siemens ecu is not good. But I do believe that there is more component lefted to be upgraded such as intake manifold and header itself. Paying more rnd in this 2 outside engine component can help the engine produce a much better result.

I've been upgrading my own '93. I believe a full factory back up team will does much better than the public. With 160WHP (if i'm not mistaken) your tarmac rally R3 should produced higher no. than that. Maybe R3 does not want to spend so much rnd on '93 due to the fact that you all got campro already, I do not know. But someone else ( so as I know from 4 dyno operator in Klang valley) has the highest peak WHP and THP with the broadest power to use that should top yours. And the engine is not even finished done due to budget constraint.

With all said, I believe R3 will keep on produced a better products and be the tuning arm of Proton. Good luck.

Cheers.

 

[faisal]

Faisal,

Therefore I believe reliability and fuel consumption is the aspects that R3 was looking into. It's fine, but HMRT car has been reported to have at least 280WHP with a top notch reliability and fuel consumption too (i'm not comparing 1.6 and 2.0 displacement here).

I don't mind the ecu bare it siemens or mmc, as long as you got the mapping than you can tailor it to the respective engine. Only those who don't understand will say siemens ecu is not good. But I do believe that there is more component lefted to be upgraded such as intake manifold and header itself. Paying more rnd in this 2 outside engine component can help the engine produce a much better result.

I've been upgrading my own '93. I believe a full factory back up team will does much better than the public. With 160WHP (if i'm not mistaken) your tarmac rally R3 should produced higher no. than that. Maybe R3 does not want to spend so much rnd on '93 due to the fact that you all got campro already, I do not know. But someone else ( so as I know from 4 dyno operator in Klang valley) has the highest peak WHP and THP with the broadest power to use that should top yours. And the engine is not even finished done due to budget constraint.

With all said, I believe R3 will keep on produced a better products and be the tuning arm of Proton. Good luck.

Cheers.

The engine (4G93) in the Tarmac rally car was well put together with very tight tolerance. Slightly different compression, proper blueprinting, different exhaust manifold. The ECU however was untouched.

The same engine specs was what powered Faidzil Alang to the Satria GTi Championship title in 2003 and has finished .

Yeah there are definately higher outputs 4G93 out there, which is not surprising really. Good for those car owners and tuners.

And the HMRT engine obviously, in case you didn't know, was a full race engine. . Kudos to Mugen Power for building such an engine.

 

[endless551]

Like which backyard workshop and how much peak power and what extend of broad power band ur saying (amazing.. or more like amusing)? Is it a rally car or a drag car?? What is the design/built intend of it?

 

[gary]

Faisal,

Therefore I believe reliability and fuel consumption is the aspects that R3 was looking into. It's fine, but HMRT car has been reported to have at least 280WHP with a top notch reliability and fuel consumption too (i'm not comparing 1.6 and 2.0 displacement here).

I don't mind the ecu bare it siemens or mmc, as long as you got the mapping than you can tailor it to the respective engine. Only those who don't understand will say siemens ecu is not good. But I do believe that there is more component lefted to be upgraded such as intake manifold and header itself. Paying more rnd in this 2 outside engine component can help the engine produce a much better result.

I've been upgrading my own '93. I believe a full factory back up team will does much better than the public. With 160WHP (if i'm not mistaken) your tarmac rally R3 should produced higher no. than that. Maybe R3 does not want to spend so much rnd on '93 due to the fact that you all got campro already, I do not know. But someone else ( so as I know from 4 dyno operator in Klang valley) has the highest peak WHP and THP with the broadest power to use that should top yours. And the engine is not even finished done due to budget constraint.

With all said, I believe R3 will keep on produced a better products and be the tuning arm of Proton. Good luck.

Cheers.

hi niceputra, i really dont understand what you're trying to say man. you dont seem to understand what building a race car is all about. when you build a race car, you have to meet certain specs and criteria for your class. building the car with the highest HP is easy, but what for? and in an endurance race also, can it last?
Has the 4 dyno operators in klang valley whom you talk about win any races? what are they building those cars for? drag? just for max HP? or for a specific class in a race?

as for the HMRT team, what do you mean by good fuel consumption? do you know how large is their fuel tank? btw, do you know how much the HMRT car costs compared to a lowly R3 race prepared gen2?

 

[endless551]

Tarmac rally car's engine is basically an almost stock 4g93 with improved efficiency. Period.

 

[niceputera]

hi niceputra, i really dont understand what you're trying to say man. you dont seem to understand what building a race car is all about. when you build a race car, you have to meet certain specs and criteria for your class. building the car with the highest HP is easy, but what for? and in an endurance race also, can it last?
Has the 4 dyno operators in klang valley whom you talk about win any races? what are they building those cars for? drag? just for max HP? or for a specific class in a race?

as for the HMRT team, what do you mean by good fuel consumption? do you know how large is their fuel tank? btw, do you know how much the HMRT car costs compared to a lowly R3 race prepared gen2?

Hai Gary,

One 1.8 that I saw has the specs that should pass for MME class. But he just build the engine for his own leisure time and not keen for serious racing. Base on the specs, everything inside is stock besides 1mm overbore pistons. That is all, the rest is normal aftermarket upgrade like cams, p&P, ekzoz etc. Strictly no lightening of intternal like underground player. No extra ordinary or ultra expensive stuff like forged pistons or titanum valve + spring etc. And it does 70-80km for 10 liters gas on hard throttle. All with budget below 10K (engine only).

I do not know HMRT nor R3 budget. As a full factory back up money should not be the main issue in car preparation. At least not the main problem out of many compare to small privateers out there.

The car went for diff dyno operators because he was crazy I guess hahaah but the truth was that he got the money and want to know which dyno machine will give the most consistent and acceptable result ( the dyno types are diff). He went there only for dynoing and tuning, not building the engine. He built somewhere else. Thanks.

Cheers.

 

[niceputera]

Tarmac rally car's engine is basically an almost stock 4g93 with improved efficiency. Period.

Endless,

I am impressed IF it is really a "almost stock 4g93 with improved efficiency" can fork out 160WHP. Are you sure? Std engine will normally register 100WHP. You are talking 60WHP from an almost std engine here. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, just want to know. Thanks.

Cheers.

 

[niceputera]

Like which backyard workshop and how much peak power and what extend of broad power band ur saying (amazing.. or more like amusing)? Is it a rally car or a drag car?? What is the design/built intend of it?

Hai Gary,

If I can remember the tork starts from as low as 150Nm at 3000rpm ( it was dynoed starts from 2000rpm) and peaked 220Nm at 5900-6000rpm (sorry don't really remember). The tork figure stays steady from 3000-6000rpm and gradually decrease. But at 7000rpm that car still has almost 180Nm. That was amazing. I have seen quite a no. of '93 tuned on dyno claimed a full spec modified only registered 160Nm peak tork. And this one special car got 220Nm. Wow even surprised the mighty 2.0 vtec that day ( vtecs dont register much tork anyway due to their inlet manifold so short).

Just sharing. No means to attact anyone. Thanks.

Cheers.

 

[faisal]

Endless,

I am impressed IF it is really a "almost stock 4g93 with improved efficiency" can fork out 160WHP. Are you sure? Std engine will normally register 100WHP. You are talking 60WHP from an almost std engine here. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, just want to know. Thanks.

Cheers.

Endless 551 never mentioned anywhere the Tarmac Rallycar's engine had 160bhp at the wheels la.

Get your facts right. Even a std (Stage 1) Satria R3 registers at least 122 bhp at the wheels. A 4G93 that dynoes and gets 100bhp at the wheel is a "sick" engine la.

And to quote you earlier "Base on the specs, everything inside is stock besides 1mm overbore pistons. That is all, the rest is normal aftermarket upgrade like cams, p&P, ekzoz etc."
Cams, porting and exhaust, if properly done, would yeild the kind of power you claim. plus that 1mm overbore. You have alot to learn in terms modifications la dude.

BTW Torque is spelled T.O.R.Q.U.E

 

[endless551]

Niceputra, I really like to meet the mechanic that built the 150Nm engine at 3000rpm with the said mods. Call me at 012 - 213 1839. Name is VK.

 

[chris2000]

Endless 551 never mentioned anywhere the Tarmac Rallycar's engine had 160bhp at the wheels la.

Get your facts right. Even a std (Stage 1) Satria R3 registers at least 122 bhp at the wheels. A 4G93 that dynoes and gets 100bhp at the wheel is a "sick" engine la.

And to quote you earlier "Base on the specs, everything inside is stock besides 1mm overbore pistons. That is all, the rest is normal aftermarket upgrade like cams, p&P, ekzoz etc."
Cams, porting and exhaust, if properly done, would yeild the kind of power you claim. plus that 1mm overbore. You have alot to learn in terms modifications la dude.

BTW Torque is spelled T.O.R.Q.U.E

Faisal,

Good one mate...

Niceputera,

Its pretty amazing the figure you gave.. Really want to know who this builder is?? I just dig back out some old dyno charts of engine dynos.

A competitive race prepared 93' engine built for the last round Proton Track Carnival Race last December, with similar mods like you listed, stock bottom end with 1mm OS piston, race prepped head with cams and other bolt on mods, only had 145ATW HP and though it did had 150NM TORQUE (and not tork) at 3000rpm, it only had a peak torque of 165NM.

And I search for more dyno charts and found that a BMW E36 328 (YES a 2.8L engine) only had ATW figures of 219NM Peak Torque!!

So your friend's Naturally Aspirated 4G93 1.8L engine capable of delivering 220NM peak torque (similar with an engine with 1000cc more) is just awesome and unbelievable!!!

Chris

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

Pardon my ignorance but what is "TORK"? Terrible lah all u guys, only know how to tork cock......
Woi endless, how the super linear tork 20B on your monster or it's just torkless?
hahaha.... never knew building engines is so easy....

 

[gary]

Pardon my ignorance but what is "TORK"? Terrible lah all u guys, only know how to tork cock......
Woi endless, how the super linear tork 20B on your monster or it's just torkless?
hahaha.... never knew building engines is so easy....

hahah.. i dont care what you guys are arguing anymore. i wanna know where that mechanic is as well. i just want 220nm of "tork" from my 4g93. ;)

 

[endless551]

Ehh.. ehh.. come to think of it.. assuming u have 220Nm at 6000rpm. Which is equivalent to 185hp @ 6000rpm. Thats a lot of power for such modification man.. Pls arrange all of us for a workshop tour. I'd really like to pay a visit to this awesome engine builder.

 

[endless551]

Pardon my ignorance but what is "TORK"? Terrible lah all u guys, only know how to tork cock......
Woi endless, how the super linear tork 20B on your monster or it's just torkless?
hahaha.... never knew building engines is so easy....

idiot.... I'm still an SR20DET owner ok! I know ur just envious of my engine's orchestra.. But at least my car is moving :D Btw.. peak TORK at 6000+rpm.. man.. its a vtec!

 

[faisal]

Pardon my ignorance but what is "TORK"? Terrible lah all u guys, only know how to tork cock......
Woi endless, how the super linear tork 20B on your monster or it's just torkless?
hahaha.... never knew building engines is so easy....

EH, BabyGozilla,
Endless's car where got TORK. Rotary TORKLESS wei..

And his car 13B not 20B.. even less TORK.. ahahahaha..


better cabut, Endless gonna bang me and my AE after this..

 

[endless551]

Faisal thinks he is the Malay version of Takumi delivering lame jokes instead of Tofu! :)

 

[niceputera]

Endless 551 never mentioned anywhere the Tarmac Rallycar's engine had 160bhp at the wheels la.

Get your facts right. Even a std (Stage 1) Satria R3 registers at least 122 bhp at the wheels. A 4G93 that dynoes and gets 100bhp at the wheel is a "sick" engine la.

And to quote you earlier "Base on the specs, everything inside is stock besides 1mm overbore pistons. That is all, the rest is normal aftermarket upgrade like cams, p&P, ekzoz etc."
Cams, porting and exhaust, if properly done, would yeild the kind of power you claim. plus that 1mm overbore. You have alot to learn in terms modifications la dude.

BTW Torque is spelled T.O.R.Q.U.E

Faisal,

I didn't said Endless was the one who mentioned the tarmac rally car had 160ATW, did I? I just wrote the figure without mentioning who qouted it. Okay, it was TJ. I read it in the local newspapers and magazines when the time R3 launch their Gen2 tarmac rally car. At that time they were preparing for Terengganu shoot out.

The figure of '93 registering 100ATW can be checked at the respective dyno operators, enough said.

Yes, there's lot to learn. Everybody has to learn including you, don't you agree? Of course if you can call me "dude" sure sounds like you know much better than me. I must admit that because you're among the selected in the R3. But listening from an amatuer like me won't cost you anything bad. Instead of making fun at me, maybe you can get something, after all if there is nothing to learn than the R3 gen 2 must has taken 1st place in the qualifying, right?

 

[Crash]

Faisal thinks he is the Malay version of Takumi delivering lame jokes instead of Tofu! :)

MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHA