Lap Times

[niceputera]

Faisal,

Good one mate...

Niceputera,

Its pretty amazing the figure you gave.. Really want to know who this builder is?? I just dig back out some old dyno charts of engine dynos.

A competitive race prepared 93' engine built for the last round Proton Track Carnival Race last December, with similar mods like you listed, stock bottom end with 1mm OS piston, race prepped head with cams and other bolt on mods, only had 145ATW HP and though it did had 150NM TORQUE (and not tork) at 3000rpm, it only had a peak torque of 165NM.

And I search for more dyno charts and found that a BMW E36 328 (YES a 2.8L engine) only had ATW figures of 219NM Peak Torque!!

So your friend's Naturally Aspirated 4G93 1.8L engine capable of delivering 220NM peak torque (similar with an engine with 1000cc more) is just awesome and unbelievable!!!

Chris

Hi Chris,

Yes you got the fact right about the BMW. Maybe you're familiar with a "dyno operator" that participated in the MME using porsche, elises (read a hint) and if yes you can go there and check the dyno charts look for GTi model. That workshop policy means that you will not be given access to others dyno figure but if you are close enough with the boss or the staff, maybe you'll get the chance to scroll down their database. Look out for more than 200NM yaa. Bye.

Cheers.

p/l: Some people said seeing is believing.

 

[niceputera]

idiot.... I'm still an SR20DET owner ok! I know ur just envious of my engine's orchestra.. But at least my car is moving :D Btw.. peak TORK at 6000+rpm.. man.. its a vtec!

Endless,

Yes, the car wasn't prepared to match vtec's bhp but excell the vtecs in Nm side. That should propels the car faster during launching and corner exit. That was the objective when preparing the car in first palce.

 

[endless551]

Ermm.. I was talkin about my rotary la.. Well.. guess u don't really know the relationship between TORK and PONYPOWER

 

[gary]

Faisal,

The figure of '93 registering 100ATW can be checked at the respective dyno operators, enough said.

Yes, there's lot to learn. Everybody has to learn including you, don't you agree?

no one is disputing that the '93 registering 100ATW is inaccurate. but a '93 doing that on dyno, is definitely a lame engine. brand new standard should be in the range of 120hp ATW. at the very least.

 

[gary]

Hi Chris,

Yes you got the fact right about the BMW. Maybe you're familiar with a "dyno operator" that participated in the MME using porsche, elises (read a hint) and if yes you can go there and check the dyno charts look for GTi model. That workshop policy means that you will not be given access to others dyno figure but if you are close enough with the boss or the staff, maybe you'll get the chance to scroll down their database. Look out for more than 200NM yaa. Bye.

Cheers.

p/l: Some people said seeing is believing.

if the workshop is so great, please share the name and location of the place. or is it a secret?

 

[niceputera]

Ehh.. ehh.. come to think of it.. assuming u have 220Nm at 6000rpm. Which is equivalent to 185hp @ 6000rpm. Thats a lot of power for such modification man.. Pls arrange all of us for a workshop tour. I'd really like to pay a visit to this awesome engine builder.

Endless,

I believe you have formula to convert the Nm figure to bhp. But in real world, not all type of modification can use it since some tuner might mod the engine for bhp and some for Nm.

In this particular '93, all the mods was done in the objective to max the Nm figure as low as possible with Turbo Sang Ist Stage '93 supercharge figure as the benchmark. That is why eventhough the Nm is very high the bhp is not that big. I must say the power is about 150 ATW only.

It's more like a big engine with peak bhp and Nm at not so high rpm range rather a vtec that scream all the way to more than 9000rpm which will put a high Nm only after the vtec is open but suffer low Nm at lower rpm.

It just a different philosophy in engine building that had been applied in here but is being applied in US, Uk and Aus.

I just share something with you guys, please don't make fun out of me. If you don't believe it's ok but if you wanna check, go ahead read the reply I gave to Chriss.

Thanks.

 

[endless551]

if the workshop is so great, please share the name and location of the place. or is it a secret?

He ain't telling cos maybe we r not worthy to be the master's disciple.. pls share niceputra.. nice nice putra..

 

[niceputera]

if the workshop is so great, please share the name and location of the place. or is it a secret?

I've given you the hints. We got less than 6 dyno operators in Klang valley. Not all has entered the MME with porsche & elises. Sure you can figure it out.

But the engine builder is not a workshop. He (the builder) took the head, blok, cams, intake piping, exhaust piping at different individual and asked them to match the specs that he give them to do. Most of the "individual" never done anything similar to what he was asking but they done it anyway. That makes the different from any '93 out there.

p/l : Individual = people who has deep knowledge in what they do for living - I mean so called long history in motor history.

 

[endless551]

Endless,

I believe you have formula to convert the Nm figure to bhp. But in real world, not all type of modification can use it since some tuner might mod the engine for bhp and some for Nm.

In this particular '93, all the mods was done in the objective to max the Nm figure as low as possible with Turbo Sang Ist Stage '93 supercharge figure as the benchmark. That is why eventhough the Nm is very high the bhp is not that big. I must say the power is about 150 ATW only.

It's more like a big engine with peak bhp and Nm at not so high rpm range rather a vtec that scream all the way to more than 9000rpm which will put a high Nm only after the vtec is open but suffer low Nm at lower rpm.

It just a different philosophy in engine building that had been applied in here but is being applied in US, Uk and Aus.

I just share something with you guys, please don't make fun out of me. If you don't believe it's ok but if you wanna check, go ahead read the reply I gave to Chriss.

Thanks.

I was merely making a crude estimation of ur relative hp at that figures you quoted to me. With that, it is sufficient to show an indicative hp figure which I personally believe is hard to achieve with almost standard internals despite building the engine to tight tolerences and enhancing the volumetric efficiency of engine via porting or so on. R u running really high compression? I personally know ppl who build engine that way but can't even last more than a few full load runs.. Suffice to say, I still don't really get what you were trying to explain to me. Over-bor-ing the cylinder do get some gain in torque but the figures you quoted is very high to be realistic figures with standard internals.

Not trying to argue with you here as I believe we are all mature enough to leave that in some less informed ones in the forum.

 

[niceputera]

I was merely making a crude estimation of ur relative hp at that figures you quoted to me. With that, it is sufficient to show an indicative hp figure which I personally believe is hard to achieve with almost standard internals despite building the engine to tight tolerences and enhancing the volumetric efficiency of engine via porting or so on. R u running really high compression? I personally know ppl who build engine that way but can't even last more than a few full load runs.. Suffice to say, I still don't really get what you were trying to explain to me. Over-bor-ing the cylinder do get some gain in torque but the figures you quoted is very high to be realistic figures with standard internals.

Not trying to argue with you here as I believe we are all mature enough to leave that in some less informed ones in the forum.

The CR is 11.9:1 ( for 97 octane fuel purpose - everyday driving), 1mm over bore, pnp with swirl design ( I did mentioned before) tuned length intake piping ( not intake manifold - no budget for that yet), PZ header ( that should be replace with custom design with better scavenging effect if cost permits ) and 2.5" inside diameter exhaust piping. Reliability is the main concern eventhough the engine did let go it's con rod bearing due to poor design no 1 & 2 con rod pin lock by mitsubishi ( honda con rod quality is so much consistent and better). I must say, normal mitsu con rod bearing did not last long before it was changed to ACL black bearing.

Yes, I do not consider us to argue here, it's more like a discussion for the benefits of everyone who participates.

Thanks.

 

[endless551]

Well.. good on ya mate! Could I see the engine pls?

 

[endless551]

I've given you the hints. We got less than 6 dyno operators in Klang valley. Not all has entered the MME with porsche & elises. Sure you can figure it out.

But the engine builder is not a workshop. He (the builder) took the head, blok, cams, intake piping, exhaust piping at different individual and asked them to match the specs that he give them to do. Most of the "individual" never done anything similar to what he was asking but they done it anyway. That makes the different from any '93 out there.

p/l : Individual = people who has deep knowledge in what they do for living - I mean so called long history in motor history.

Kee from Links power?? So he built the engine?

 

[niceputera]

Kee from Links power?? So he built the engine?

Good guess there. No he didn't built the engine (just dyno there) but he did surprised to saw the Nm figure.

 

[niceputera]

Well.. good on ya mate! Could I see the engine pls?

Well pretty ordinary engine from outside actually. The real different is the aluminium intercooler like CAI piping that goes all the way down to the front bumper, other than that it's a sleeper from outside.

 

[DRiftAGster]

hi all, sorry to sound like a small kid but i find it amusing after reading thru all the 8 pages at once....

niceputra, nobody seems to 100% believe in you, and endless551 is so kind to ask you to share with us the pics/mechanic of this engine.... but u kept it secret...

ok, so the owner send different parts to different ppl to build the engine to his specs, fine, then show some pics of engine bay or maybe post the dyno chart also ok gua.... how can we all here go to Links and ask Kee to show us the database in his dyno computer??

if all of this is secret, then dont share here in a public forum cos secrets are not meant to be shared publicly.... just congratulate the owner and wish him happy daily driving, no need to tell us all here in a track racing forum.....

i came across a very powerful '93 before, daily driven white wira (occasionally used to show up in bt3 for track day),and the power is amazing cos it is able to match the vtec regulars of super sixteen....

wonder if it is the same owner.... i cant share the pics/info bout the car here cos i lost contact with that guy already..... thats y i am eager to find out this secret also....

oh ya, u mentioned this guy has long history in motorsports, so maybe if you reveal it, he probably could be the next head of dept for another R&D team to build full spec race cars.... maybe to lead R3 (nothing personal to R3 guys ok...) to achieve greater heights in engine building.....

 

[niceputera]

hi all, sorry to sound like a small kid but i find it amusing after reading thru all the 8 pages at once....

niceputra, nobody seems to 100% believe in you, and endless551 is so kind to ask you to share with us the pics/mechanic of this engine.... but u kept it secret...

ok, so the owner send different parts to different ppl to build the engine to his specs, fine, then show some pics of engine bay or maybe post the dyno chart also ok gua.... how can we all here go to Links and ask Kee to show us the database in his dyno computer??

if all of this is secret, then dont share here in a public forum cos secrets are not meant to be shared publicly.... just congratulate the owner and wish him happy daily driving, no need to tell us all here in a track racing forum.....

i came across a very powerful '93 before, daily driven white wira (occasionally used to show up in bt3 for track day),and the power is amazing cos it is able to match the vtec regulars of super sixteen....

wonder if it is the same owner.... i cant share the pics/info bout the car here cos i lost contact with that guy already..... thats y i am eager to find out this secret also....

oh ya, u mentioned this guy has long history in motorsports, so maybe if you reveal it, he probably could be the next head of dept for another R&D team to build full spec race cars.... maybe to lead R3 (nothing personal to R3 guys ok...) to achieve greater heights in engine building.....

DriftAGster,

You didn't get the fact right, maybe you should read again. No body has to believe what I wrote. I've given the info but no dyno chart because the car is not mine. The copy of the dyno chart was misplaced by the owner. Anybody who wants to verify what I wrote has to make a little effort for it.

We shall stop commenting about the engine and go back to the original topic - lap time, ok.

 

[DRiftAGster]

okok..... back to lap time.... forget about the mysterious high tork 93......

but if i wanna mod my '93 like your fren's can ar? then i can clock better lap time in sepang.....

* i guess the answer will be - he only mod his own car....

 

[gary]

DriftAGster,

You didn't get the fact right, maybe you should read again. No body has to believe what I wrote. I've given the info but no dyno chart because the car is not mine. The copy of the dyno chart was misplaced by the owner. Anybody who wants to verify what I wrote has to make a little effort for it.

We shall stop commenting about the engine and go back to the original topic - lap time, ok.

niceputera, all you've done is to create more questions than answers. if the info you've posted is wrong, then admit you're wrong and move on. theres no shame in that. but to keep pluggin on that what you've been told is correct when everyone else around you is skeptical about it isn't very smart as well.

 

[gary]

Well pretty ordinary engine from outside actually. The real different is the aluminium intercooler like CAI piping that goes all the way down to the front bumper, other than that it's a sleeper from outside.

ok ok, WAIT A Minute!!!! aluminium intercooler??? i thought the car was N/A??

wait.. oh.. CAI piping.. hmm....

 

[DRiftAGster]

niceputera, all you've done is to create more questions than answers. if the info you've posted is wrong, then admit you're wrong and move on. theres no shame in that. but to keep pluggin on that what you've been told is correct when everyone else around you is skeptical about it isn't very smart as well.

y tear down the curtain so fast? let some not very smart ppl like me being fooled longer ma... create some amusement for all readers.... zth has new server, enuff space for rubbish....

** he mean the CAI piping looks like intercooler piping la - not the car has intercooler... aiyo... not very smart....