AP holders...

[alexz]

hmmm... all ppl given equal chances? its a great idea, but are all of them are starting out with equal resources?

for example, let say the merdeka race... what if there is no classes for different types of cars? all given equal rules. but from start some got a skyline, others got a satria. so does the guy having a satria given an equal chances have a hint of overall win as those with a skyline?

some ppl are poor, others are born rich. the thing is not to give an equal chance, and not to descriminate those who have more resources too, but to give the ppl who has less resources a start in something.

yeah but now the scheme doesnt really benefitted the needy, but is a tool to enrich the "know who". so what is needed is a revamp, and stop the scheme as being merely a "handout", but something of an advantageous situation in they have to work for to succed, not just get by sitting and do nothing.
so now the AP doesnt help the malays in general, or any other races in particular, its just enriching this "know who" few. it need to be something like the felda scheme of yesteryears, where poor is given land for them to toil and work to earn living, and just sitting by wont get the palm trees to grow!

 

[N0bu]

so now the AP doesnt help the malays in general, or any other races in particular, its just enriching this "know who" few. it need to be something like the felda scheme of yesteryears, where poor is given land for them to toil and work to earn living, and just sitting by wont get the palm trees to grow!

hahahahhahah have you seen how the felda and felcra plantations are nowadays?

they are more content with sitting there, dreaming of when/if their land is gazetted for redevelopent, selling it off and becoming instant millionaires. it's a total farce. taking the fertiliser subsidy from the government and renovate their house of buy cars.

we came here as kuli's without anything. far worse than what the indons and bagladeshis are facing nowadays. signed our lifes away jsut for a promise of a better living. worked our arses off and now you said you want a share? where's the justice? respect is to be earned not demanded. same as livelihood.

so brother's please do not discriminate against and mistreat the indons, bangladeshis, burmese, nepalese or any foreign workers. bear in mind that they are no different from your forefathers who first stepped unto this land.

 

[BlackSamurai]

guys, i think we go beyond discussion of AP. Shall we get back to AP issue?

 

[alexz]

yeap now all the trees are grown already... now the scheme is also totally lost in translation.

about want a share... its not wanting a share of YOUR hard earned wealth, but a share of the economy in general. see does the govt tax each races differently? does the govt take away chinese properties to give to the poor like what the zimbabwean's do to their whites? why blame it on all malays when only a few cronies benefitted?

 

[alexz]

okay back to the AP thingy, so no more bringing out new unrelated statements that i need to to reply :)

 

[N0bu]

it's the bloody policies that keeps on popping up that's what get into my nerves. also the obstacle in which we have to go through to survive.

also the fact that the malays do not know what we have to go through.

the taxes we pay are not distributed equally to help us. this is my share...... who pays the most taxes in this country if the economy is mostly held by the chinese? can you do the maths? where does it help us in education? why must we subsidise the purchase of houses for the bumi's? why must there be APs to help bumis entrepenuer when there were none to help other races to begin with?

lord..i could go on with all the stories i've experienced personally from going to a Technical school with more than 90% malays to having worked in a GLC.

 

[boggysv]

why blame it on all malays when only a few cronies benefitted?

If that's the case, do you agree that all businesses, regardless of racial content, are allowed to apply for AP?
I dont think that will happen in the near future.

 

[alexz]

hey, to be frank, most of those bumi's who got the AP is only acting as a front for chinese businessmen's... like most of the "bumiputra" construction companies...

as i said, the AP is only benefitting a few, regardless of race...
so lets have a more constructive debate regarding the AP for the betterment of us the working ppl; and not continuing the chinese vs bumi thingy...

now the AP is given free, and sold for huge profit to those who got them. there are some of the bumi's that got the AP's as a front to chinese businessman, who uses this ppl's bumi status to get the AP, and give those bumi's a cut to do nothing. this need to be stopped, as it is like a licence to tax the public.

giving someone something that can be profited by doing nothing is wrong. we need to root out all these unethical ppl and give it to ppl who do real business. but the biggest obstacle to this is of coz the ppl in the govt, who gets a cut from all this shit. thats why nobody in the govt is really keen to solve the problem, coz most of them benefitted from it too...

to really solve the problem, you need to get the persons responsible out of the govt, so vote them out the next election!

 

[N0bu]

like i said earlier...... i have never voted for BN before and never will until the day that we do not practice racial politics - MCA, UMNO, MIC. i voted DAP and Lim Kit Siang won in my constituency.

the hardest problem is to change the mindset. when are we going to be united if i am still considered as a second class citizen? 30 years of NEP and still no progress? what went wrong? japan was thrusted into the industrial age in 20 years after commodore perry forced them to open their market. they were already building ships and tanks then. now the koreans are the world's largest ship makers. both of their car industries are booming because their quality is at par with the imported cars. given a choice if proton's quaity is good i would buy it. not forced to buy it because the competition is squeezed out.

the more you protect the worse it's going to get. it's jsut like a child refusing to grow up. the only way the chinese can really do business nowadays is to have a malay figure in their books. that is jsut very sad. they are more preoccupied with selling their rights and earning fast money.]

businesses, sports should be separated from politics.

 

[alexz]

businesses, sports should be separated from politics.

thats a part of life... what to do lor... even waging wars has something to do with businesses...

 

[alexz]

now about the unity and advancement... see malaysia is not japan, korea... those are not multi racial countries... and we are also not like the good ol' US of A coz here the majority is ingenious ppl, where in US where majority of them are immigrants and the ingenious ppl lives in reserves or somthin'

japan and korea has more ppl in their countries to sustain their growth, and most of their products are for export. malaysia builds cars mostly for local consumption, and there is only that many ppl who is going to buy cars in malaysia.

yes protection is not good. advantages to a selected few also is not good. but what about some advantage to increase the living standards of many?

maybe you feel disadvantaged. but do you really want to live in a country where you can see so many ppl who is poorer than you... and hate you coz you are richer then them? thats what is happening to the chinese in indonesia, you dont want that to happen to you here right?

 

[PetrolHeaD]

anyway i forsee malaysia will become like atlantic city...if u know what i mean

i think u mean atlantis;)



cant believe i just read through all 13 pages....

a LOT of good points were made. and a whole lot more shocking ones too. the encyclopedia link was a real eye opener....

depressing really. maybe i should follow keano's comment about leaving. i can. i just dont want to. yet.





my head hurts.

 

[reedoor]

to really solve the problem, you need to get the persons responsible out of the govt, so vote them out the next election!

hey bro, i dont think its just so easy as u say, vote!? jus look around you, wats the ratio of malay to chinese & indians? & Tun Mahathir did said so years ago tat "No one says chinese cannot be Prime minister!!!" but think back... wats the population for chinese comparing to malay? do u think they will vote for chinese??? hahaha... i dont think so... no matter how well they seen countries like singapore, taiwan, or china lead by chinese.

think as a whole to discuss & solve problem, not just "talk only AP" here but still there're bunch of other problems underneath. Doesnt it sound a Ostrich covering its head in the mud while leaving the ass to the world??? these issues are so much related...

Proton cannot sell is not only bcos of AP & import cars issues but mainly bcos of their bad quality & service problem & their continuously use of same technology on the same thing for so many years. Y? cos they are protected, & as long as P produces cars, for sure they will b ppl buying 1. they jus want to "get MONEY & get rich, in the easiest & fastest way", slowly slowly show some improvement wud b enough; when face problem, jus say its some other problem tat makes P sales drop, wat the Fxxx?!?! That's wat in those ppl's mind, dint make it then blame others. & these ppl are controling the country... o my god...

 

[deacon]

to be fair in all respect, being that i was lucky enough to study overseas i have experienced many cars. Kia and hyundai dont exactly top the list of quality. sorry to burst your bubble but short of owning a 2004 tiburon (hyundai scoupe v6) i wouldnt touch a hyundai like my life depended on it. the reason why they sell in the US is 'cos it under prices everything there. how do they do that? i am glad you asked :D. they gut the whole car no abs, no airbags, and no traction control for winter states. all this is extras you have to pay for. though i will say they are taking a step forward in the last few years but they are far from the likes of honda, toyota and ford in terms of popular marketable cars. personally if i had to choose between any other model range of korean car other than the tiburon (scoupe v6) and my sgti i would take my sgti. i believe the quality of build is similar and sgti aftermarket for parts (not necessarily performance parts) is far greater seeing that mitsu has been around for donkey's years :p

 

[deacon]

on an interesting side note supposedly EON service kicks ass if you are in UK and Australia. ranks somewhere in the top 5 for both countries. unsimilarly we dont get the same service here. this raises another issue i feel that quite unfair, if its our local car arent we supposed to be getting the best trim level there is for our market? i've had people from Australia that have sgti's complain about mine saying the interior is sub par quality. in the end of the day subsidising our foreign market sales with our over inflated prices for cars here is something we have to tolerate. but at least make our car quality better or as good as what we are selling out of malaysia

 

[cossie]

humans were made by god / fantasy island

hmmm... all ppl given equal chances? its a great idea, but are all of them are starting out with equal resources?

for example, let say the merdeka race... what if there is no classes for different types of cars? all given equal rules. but from start some got a skyline, others got a satria. so does the guy having a satria given an equal chances have a hint of overall win as those with a skyline?...

a motor race is unique as it is man-made and the rules are man-made with not much choice. humans were made by god and god gave men complete freedom to make their own choices.

how can anyone start off with less of their abilities? if this is the way god made a person, then there's not much choice to be had. this has significant results on how much money you will earn. someone better looking will have a greater chance of earning money compared to someone who you despise looking at.

so even if everyone had their money 'confiscated' (or equalized by some other means), sooner or later there will be economic disparity again due to the difference in natural ability of each person. when disparity exist again, then what's going to happen? people are going to scream, "hey let's start all over again on an equal footing!" hello? this is life, it is not a game.

what's the point of working hard when everything gets 'reset' all the time? might as well don't do anything since the outcome will be the same. how many times must the reset button be used? the rest of the world does not work with this switch. is malaysia fantasy island?

it's going to be a big shock when the world is globalized and malaysia has no place in the world. money and influence go hand in hand. if malaysia does not have enough money then, we will have no say in any global policies. malaysians will not be able to protect themselves in the world. malaysians need to know that they live in a world and malaysia is not the only country in it. it's no fun if all the grand prix cars are in the midst of a race and the malaysian contender comes into the pits each lap to be 'fixed'.

can you imagine making the olympic rules such that each contestant must go through surgery to make sure they are all competiting on an equal basis? might as well benchmark similar intel processors from the same batch. if this sort of policy exist, it only staves creativity, desires, nationalism and patriotism among all the other traits necessary for national growth.

 

[boggysv]

This reminds me of the nascar boys's complain over Danica patrick's weight advantage:D

 

[cossie]

malaysians boleh, tapi malaysia tak boleh

... but now the scheme behind the original purpose of NEP has become so skewed, it doesnt really serve the original purpose but to enrich the "know who" few ...

all the good this has done is merely to hold back the others from pushing malaysia to what it can be.

do you know what the NEP is like?

this is how it works: malaysians line up in a race. whoever is faster will be held back so that the slower ones can catch up and ensure everyone reaches the finish line at the same time. this kind of policy makes people lazy and the fast ones will gradually learn to slow down so that they do not have their hopes dashed. i can win! i can win! oh no... i can't.

this is how the rest of the world without the NEP (or WEP in this case) works: everyone goes to the race with whatever they have. the outcome of the race is determined by whoever is best suited to win that race. those that did not win, will keep trying till they are the champions. this sort of environment breeds commitment to the task and develops the will to be a champion.

the state we are in now is malaysians boleh, tapi malaysia tak boleh (malaysians can do it but the country is not willing).

 

[cossie]

orang asli

now about the unity and advancement... see malaysia is not japan, korea... those are not multi racial countries... and we are also not like the good ol' US of A coz here the majority is ingenious ppl, where in US where majority of them are immigrants and the ingenious ppl lives in reserves or somthin'...

are you implying that if the malays, chinese and indians did not exist in malaysia, the orang asli would have made malaysia an economic power such as japan and korea? are the malays, chinese and indians at fault for the state of malaysia and its economy? if the immigrants are indeed at fault for the state of malaysia, then who created policies that resulted in that situation? if good policies are to be had, then who must replace the failures in drafting them?

you have to realize that the majority of malaysians (in the order of current population size) are made up of immigrants with the bulk comprising indonesians (called melayu in malaysia), chinese and indians.

 

[ericee]

oh on a different note RSAF in singapore doesn't have any malay pilots. i for one can say singapore isn't a supreme example of multiracialism trust me. having lived overseas with chinese from singapore (as well as having chinese family in singapore) you realise that they really look down on indians and malays. its something i couldnt stand being that i am half indian and chinese. malays are given police postings in national service in singapore, for the most part. i dont believe that there is any racial cohesion in their schools, chinese will always stick together which is the same with indians and malays because all have been subjected to their parents prejudices of other creeds. the worst part is that malays from singapore hate singapore because they feel subjugated against all the time. being forced to speak english as a primary language and having malay as their second language really pisses them off. you can't force people into doing things they dont understand the reason for why they are doing it. knowledge
QUOTE]

I have no idea where u get this from.. DO read LKY memoirs & u will understand the reason behind it. Im not going to waste my time to provide u with more eg's & evidences.. Majorities of my friends in SPore are Malays themselves & they are glad not to be born Malaysian.