Modifications That Dont Work

[vr2turbo]

Funny, a quick read across the internet shows a well made CAI results in improvement across the range. 5~7 hp increase with the dyno sheet for proof. Of course, this all depends on the engine as well.

Should improve. The video shows that when pod was out of the car there was improvement. What they did was to remove the headlights and blow air in and not separate the pod space from engine.

 

[6UE5t]

I just watched the open air pod video and found out that:

1st open pod: 66HP @ 160kph,
2nd open pod: 69.4hp @ 178kph, AFR 14.37
Original box: 69.8hp @ 144kph, AFR 12.96

I believe to many sifu modifiers / car tuners out there...they already see the difference. And if they show the torque reading as well, it will be more obvious.

This means the ori box actually reach max power faster or makes more power at lower revs, that's why the speed reading is lower (cuz speed is governed by the revs and gear ratio).
It also shows that the open pod indeed lean out the AFR, so in order to take advantage of the extra air, actually should tune the fuel as well to make more power. If the car is not tuned accordingly to take advantage of the increase of air, then it can even loss power.
CMIIW though, since I'm just a newbie and not a mechanic.

 

[pwhyze]

Good observation, though to be more accurate, it's better to compare dyno sheets than just look at AFR.

 

[6UE5t]

Yes, dyno comparison would definitely show a better picture across the rev range.

 

[YYC]

May not take it seriously about all those myth buster or any other findings. Bear in mind the real scientific result needs rigorous test and experiment within a controlled environment to filter out the many variables to give the subject an accurate result. The final result is subsequently subject to peer reviews to verify and confirm the finding.

They can run on the same pod many time and got slightly different reading each time, the result was influenced by other variables all the times. The result could be true but far from accurate or vice versa.

Stock is sometimes better. I would now spend the money for the obvious performance gains.

 

[cvkit17]

This means the ori box actually reach max power faster or makes more power at lower revs, that's why the speed reading is lower (cuz speed is governed by the revs and gear ratio).
It also shows that the open pod indeed lean out the AFR, so in order to take advantage of the extra air, actually should tune the fuel as well to make more power. If the car is not tuned accordingly to take advantage of the increase of air, then it can even loss power.
CMIIW though, since I'm just a newbie and not a mechanic.

Yeap dyno sheet with full data is a lot better to elaborate. When it comes to power, why do ppl always look at the hp reading only?

I'm abit suspicious of what you have explained, no offense though, we are all sharing opinions =)
Wen using ori filter box the car reaches 69hp but speed was at 144kph. The open pod shows 178kph and that's a lot of difference. Please correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm not a dyno expert...when we dyno a car, we rev it to the red lines. Peak hp is usually at the end of the rev so I believe the rpm that resulted in 69hp for both cases aren't too far apart. Unless you are suggesting that the ori reaches that speed at 4th gear and the open pod reaches that at 5th. If not, something's is kinda fishy to me....or mayb I'm too stupid to catch it

 

[Izso]

I just watched the open air pod video and found out that:

1st open pod: 66HP @ 160kph,
2nd open pod: 69.4hp @ 178kph, AFR 14.37
Original box: 69.8hp @ 144kph, AFR 12.96

I believe to many sifu modifiers / car tuners out there...they already see the difference. And if they show the torque reading as well, it will be more obvious.

Awesome! Finally some good discussion (6uest and pwhyze) btw cvkit17, discussion between civilised forummers is perfectly fine. There's no need for apologies me thinks.

And 6uest has a good point. HP is basically just a unit of measurement for power. Power is the rate of which work is done. So with that logic :

- the original box requires 69.8hp to reach 144kph.
- Open pod results in higher speed with the same power?

Since speed is governed by gear ratios :

- that means less effort (hp) is needed to reach higher speeds?

Btw, peak power isn't always in the redline rev ranges la. Ultimately a complete dyno chart will reveal all.

 

[pwhyze]

Btw, peak power isn't always in the redline rev ranges la. Ultimately a complete dyno chart will reveal all.

This is true. Usually, the power taper off once peak rev is reached, and more often than not, that is before the redline. That's why, sometimes it's pointless to rev the engine to the redline before shifting up since the power is already tailing off way before that.

I guess we can assume from the figures that open pod moves the peak rev to a higher rev than the original airbox. For example, stock = 69.8hp@4000rpm and open pod 2 = 69.4@7500rpm. I do, however wonder, what the stock's airbox top speed would be beyond the peak rev i.e 4000rpm, and whether it's comparable to that of the open pod's.

 

[vr2turbo]

To me freeing the air flow does not increase any power. Engine displacement and fuel feed is still the same. Maybe even leaning out the A/F ratio power is decreased instead. What they should have tested is which air filter allows the engine to peak or reach the red line faster.
To me again, freeing the air flow gives better acceleration not gain more power.....my 2 sens

 

[cvkit17]

This is true. Usually, the power taper off once peak rev is reached, and more often than not, that is before the redline. That's why, sometimes it's pointless to rev the engine to the redline before shifting up since the power is already tailing off way before that.

I guess we can assume from the figures that open pod moves the peak rev to a higher rev than the original airbox. For example, stock = 69.8hp@4000rpm and open pod 2 = 69.4@7500rpm. I do, however wonder, what the stock's airbox top speed would be beyond the peak rev i.e 4000rpm, and whether it's comparable to that of the open pod's.

Wana correct my statement a little bit..what I meant was normal cars, not heavily modded, peaks at 5000 - 6000++ rpm. That's why when dyno, one rev the car to red line to get the whole power curve right (dat's wat I understand btw)...

I personally do not think an open pod can cause so much difference in rev..maybe a few hundreds of RPM, max 1k. One thing about open pod is that the power is more towards mid range and high range RPM...so getting the 178kph over 144 is ok to me, but at the same HP? What I dont get it is this haha. We know HP = power = work done. And work in = work out + losses. If it takes 69hp to reach 178kph, why is it the same for 144kph? That's why I suspect the gear ratio being used in this Dyno Video :hmmmm: tolong tunjuk ajar

 

[pwhyze]

That assumption can only be made if you can confirm 144kph is indeed the top speed for the stock airbox, which I highly doubt. Like 6uest mentioned, it's probable max hp for stock is earlier i.e lower rev i.e lower speed. If we were to run the engine beyond this point, I would expect it to reach similar speed as the open pod, while taking a longer time (maybe,not sure) . After all, top speed ( or rather terminal speed) is a function of power and drag, and since power is similar, top speed will be around the same as well.

Saying that, I can see how you would doubt the results given the disparity is so big for such a small mod. So, I don't think you can rule out the tempering of the gear ratio as well. As mentioned, it's better to have the dyno sheet to make more assumptions.

The difference is rpm was a rough example, didn't really put too much thought into it. I think you're right, the rev difference wouldn't be that huge..hehe

 

[6UE5t]

Yeah, my thoughts are that if the open pod makes the max power @ 178kph then that means it reached that power figure in higher revs assuming the gear ratios are still the same which I think should be (cuz they won't have time to change gear ratios). If the ori air filter box made around that same power @ 144kph, so it should be at lower revs.

But I agree that the difference in speeds seems just too much so maybe my suspicion is that those speeds might not be entirely correct after all. I don't think they dynoed using different gears as well because that would defeat the purpose of doing the comparison in the first place. Maybe the 178kph was just over run of speeds, not the actual speed where it makes that max power after all.

Again only full dyno chart comparison can give better idea of the truth.

And yea, no need to apologize, we're just having normal, civilized discussion. :)

 

[Izso]

This is true. Usually, the power taper off once peak rev is reached, and more often than not, that is before the redline. That's why, sometimes it's pointless to rev the engine to the redline before shifting up since the power is already tailing off way before that.

I guess we can assume from the figures that open pod moves the peak rev to a higher rev than the original airbox. For example, stock = 69.8hp@4000rpm and open pod 2 = 69.4@7500rpm. I do, however wonder, what the stock's airbox top speed would be beyond the peak rev i.e 4000rpm, and whether it's comparable to that of the open pod's.

Ahhh.. this summerizes everything I've been trying to crack in my head. Open pod (more air) raises the peak power rev range which is true in my own tests with my car. Problem with this is low end is affected since it seems to shift the entire power band upwards? So low is really bad and high is greatly improved?

To me again, freeing the air flow gives better acceleration not gain more power.....my 2 sens

I think what you said here is debatable. Shifting the powerband higher isn't necessarily acceleration unless you're not talking about stand-still launching.

 

[amrancharger]

open pod has been a long debated topic.
it has no right or wrong.i just too lazy to debate it ere.
i did point those figures in the video in a facebook page and lets say....alot of people believe more of what they hear (in the video they said how this open pod is a waste) instead looking at the figures.

want cheap CAI/heatshield go DIY...cost less than rm10 if u are creative.if u lazy everything is damn expensive!
i look in the net for inspiration and ideas before i ventures into this open pod area.lots of info, feedback and even negative comments.so i learnt from there.i dun just watch the video and suddenly come out saying its a total waste for open pod.
and i experiment to get the best result.
i even dare to say i can get better FC with my open pod setup.latest was 14.77km/l.maybe due to cold weather nowadays.hahaha!sometimes less but it may be caused by my right foot and also the weather(alot of driving during the hot sunny day).last time my FC ard 12 to 13.++km/l.
however i only did simple/basic mods since this is my daily workhorse now and my family transporter.
plus i m not that kinda hardcore motorsport dude.hehe...peace all...

 

[Supra_Fanatics]

What about throttle controller? Does it really work? Some told me to install and try cuz it works....

 

[vr2turbo]

What about throttle controller? Does it really work? Some told me to install and try cuz it works....

Drive by wire or the smaller spool manual one?

---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------

I think what you said here is debatable. Shifting the powerband higher isn't necessarily acceleration unless you're not talking about stand-still launching.

Yes, I mean higher band like switching lane and overtake and certain speed already...

 

[Supra_Fanatics]

Drive by wire or the smaller spool manual one?

Should be by wire type...

this one..

http://76.my/Malaysia/shadow-e-drive-throttle-controller-toyota-camry-corolla-estima-1008-28-chyee1986@6.jpg

 

[vr2turbo]

Should be by wire type...

this one..

http://76.my/Malaysia/shadow-e-drive-throttle-controller-toyota-camry-corolla-estima-1008-28-chyee1986@6.jpg

As far as I know Drive by wire so called booster, pushes up the acceleration graph only not increase car engine power.
Example you step on accelerator pedal 1/4 way you get 25%, but booster boost to 30% and at 1/2 where original is 50% the boost may be 80%, and at 3/4 is full throttle already, thereafter the graph flattens out, so you get initial gain only so you feel that the car is faster....

Here is the graph.....
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8473/sprintgraph.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Supra_Fanatics]

In other words, it works but just doesn't help much? Just for better torque by revving to higher rpm?

 

[vr2turbo]

In other words, it works but just doesn't help much? Just for better torque by revving to higher rpm?

Helps you to achieve faster acceleration......I won't say better torque....