Modifications That Dont Work

[xtremeleo]

First of all sorry to bring this thing up heheheheh...

u r most welcome sir

When U talk about standard parts U must remind ur self that each part have been develop by the person (usually engineers) for certain things such as constrain sir.. one of the constrain is safety future, the second one is durability and the third one is price etc... I dont said that standard one will generate unstable voltage but for sure with less resistant cable will give better stability voltage with least time duration right?

again, stability isnt governed by resistance sir. by the tests dat weve done, the std / cap ayam (to a certain degree, but workable) cables are good enough for a highly modified engines. please prove my tests are wrong before u comment further, tq sir.

About the test method... real world scenario application.. thats the thing... u try to do experiment without proper knowledge of experiment u will get no different set of data event worst, wrong data.....when u do the experiment, the set up of the equipment is the most important thing that will differentiate between true data u can get or false data u can get... the more equipment ur used the more error it will make... for example chassis dyno yes it give exact data from the car output but it not sensitive enough to show the different each time mod being done to the engine.. unless the different is huge... for example when u said 7hp gone when u test nology plug it actually at wheel h.p but in the engine h.p its actually much bigger than 7h.p... about wheel dyno can u explain how much sensitive the dyno can detect? 1000rpm? 500rpm, 250rpm? or 5rpm? and what are the speed of measurement they used 50hz? 60hz? 75hz? (but still don't ask me more about this because most of my test rig being set by my friend from electronic course student heheheheh)... lastly how much error the dyno machine have? thats why when u talk about dyno, the only thing that sensitive enough to detect the different is engine dyno or u ur self make ur own test rig with very expensive component just to detect the different.. to add another question what actually the things that u monitors? only h.p? or u also monitor the flame propagation duration? did U change the timing of the spark when u change the cable? (because each cable must contribute to the different flame propagation duration if they have different resistant)..

y do you need to know all these paramaters anyway? a 7hp loss is a 7hp loss, comparison was done on the same dyno, i dont understand ur predicament in dis matter sir. seems like u are trying to create a useless issue, what can u extract from knowing the dynamometer freq? why do u need to measure the flame propagation? just to see its characteristics? for what? a power loss is a power loss, it doesnt matter how. i will avoid things dat arent worth to spend on, and losing power when uve spend a hefty amount isnt worth it. iam stating the obvious here, and u r telling me to put down the dynamometer's resolution? there wasnt much of ignition timing difference sir, but we did made adjustment

the most funny thing is that u make an assumption for the experiment that cannot be used in real life... what type of assumption u make when u want to applied it in real life cannot be used? for me assumption for experiment is actually from the real life application the error comes only from the experiment rig it self.. and lab experiment is divided into many degree of purposes.. first for lab used and purposes is to seek new and naval materials, finding etc.. second is to simulate real life condition so new develop product can be tested, third is to meet real life condition in control environment so u can see the effect of it. and many more (to many reason where even i don't know what is the purpose) the only things that can be used as reference is the equation they make from the experiment.. why? because to used the equation for the real life application must met with the set of condition and constrain from the equation used for example temperature, humidity, etc... if theses condition are met then the equation valid to be used in real life application...based on ur conclusion well I don't want to argue with ur conclusion I just want to see that is it, the right conclusion u make based on the fact that ur monitors thats all...

i dont understand dis, experiments do have their purpose but not the be adhered but to take as a reference, dats all. results in real life / scenario is much more applicable sir, period.

about spark plug and other mod regarding ignition.. well it also relate with flame propagation thinging...i only want to share my 2cent (that what everybody said right) for 5000rpm engine rev equals to 83.33rev/sec in 1 rev equals to 0.012 sec.. example u have 15 degree angle of flame propagation (assumption only) means the flame propagation duration or time should be 0.0005 sec... thats only for 5000rpm.. and if u have set the spark timing for the current mod let say 10 degree before TDC and with current setup the timing seem compatible and the best option for ur optimum performance.. but after that u change to the performance part either spark plug or cable plug or etc... I believe with that mod the flame propagation duration already change right? so assume the time duration change from 0.0005 sec to 0.0004 sec it means that ur flame duration also change from 15 degree angle to 12 degree of angle... if U said it without changing the timing spark the performance of the engine will not change is up to U... for me the degree of end of combustion is the thing that contribute to release some of h.p that kept from the engine.. (it not increase but release) thats why engineer in engine management will always change the spark timing... when ever the engine rev change.. if the engine rev much slower the best spark timing become closed to TDC and if the engine in high rev the spark timing become advance.. it just to cope with flame propagation duration before it complete burn...(flame propagation duration value usually gets from set of theoretical equation or experiment that they make them self)

sorry for long explanation and blablabla... hope u all can understand what the things that I seek and sooooo sorry for my selfishness...

correct, dats y all petrol engines ignition timing advances when the revv climbs, its very obvious sir. flame duration in degree? i dont understand on dat part, i dont remember saying the bolded phrase sir. i believe flame propagation is determined in the electrode design and the combustion chamber design as a whole (see GDi pistons design), not the spark intensity and certainly not the cable resistance. do u even know whats the resistance value of a typical cap ayam cable tak? check dat out and please confirm there is a substantial voltage drop across the worse cable u cud find. tq sir

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------

Wah, deep engineering talk. Read also headache.

i also pening dah, lol. dats what iam trying to tell him, dont make me pening with all this jargons, me orang tua sudeh..

 

[dabok max7]

u r most welcome sir


again, stability isnt governed by resistance sir. by the tests dat weve done, the std / cap ayam (to a certain degree, but workable) cables are good enough for a highly modified engines. please prove my tests are wrong before u comment further, tq sir.

y do you need to know all these paramaters anyway? a 7hp loss is a 7hp loss, comparison was done on the same dyno, i dont understand ur predicament in dis matter sir. seems like u are trying to create a useless issue, what can u extract from knowing the dynamometer freq? why do u need to measure the flame propagation? just to see its characteristics? for what? a power loss is a power loss, it doesnt matter how. i will avoid things dat arent worth to spend on, and losing power when uve spend a hefty amount isnt worth it. iam stating the obvious here, and u r telling me to put down the dynamometer's resolution? there wasnt much of ignition timing difference sir, but we did made adjustment

i dont understand dis, experiments do have their purpose but not the be adhered but to take as a reference, dats all. results in real life / scenario is much more applicable sir, period.

correct, dats y all petrol engines ignition timing advances when the revv climbs, its very obvious sir. flame duration in degree? i dont understand on dat part, i dont remember saying the bolded phrase sir. i believe flame propagation is determined in the electrode design and the combustion chamber design as a whole (see GDi pistons design), not the spark intensity and certainly not the cable resistance. do u even know whats the resistance value of a typical cap ayam cable tak? check dat out and please confirm there is a substantial voltage drop across the worse cable u cud find. tq sir


---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------



i also pening dah, lol. dats what iam trying to tell him, dont make me pening with all this jargons, me orang tua sudeh..

one thing for most certain is U need to clarify how u done ur test thats why i'm asking U how u make u test so if there is certain thing that make it wrong... I would know....

I already mention what the thing I need... to ensure ur assumption is correct..if u think i bring up useless issue than let it be... flame propagation is to determine the effectiveness of the combustion means either it become complete, less or detonation combustion occurs.. if it is complete than it is the best but if it becomes less of to fast u know the result...

reference yes and also it can be used as in real situation.. but usually the ref we used is from theoretical and analytical method.. experimental procedure always as to measure things and the result being used to develop something or anything la...(too lazy keep explaining the same thing and I believe that u mention the experiment result cannot be used in real situation and can only be used as ref...)

again to lazy because already explain liow... I want to cry.. flame propagation can be measured based on time, space and degree of crank angle.. I make it simple la... 1 rotation of crank is 360degree angle right? is U want to count the flame propagation inside the complete build engine how? U must know what are the duration of mixed a/f to complete burn.. u can count with sec or U can count it with degree of angle... how much degree it will take before it complete burn the a/f mixture.. as for testing the cable resistant and its performance.. never being done by me... THATS why I ask U.. If not I already flame U maaa... and said that Ur assumption is wrong......haiiyoooo... now i really want to cry I even mention that my knowledge in electrical is low and almost to none, do U understand what it means ha? The things is, I only have different opinion with u is based on my I.C.E knowledge maa... so if U can prove what U said about no different so better stick with stock cable please give an explanation but don't keep answering that u have done the test with the dyno and blalalalalabalala... for me the asnwer is rubbish. why like i mention before dyno wheels is not sensitive enough and the results is based on after the output of the wheels which already to many losses from the friction of the wheels, power transfer from dry shaft to the wheels, transmission transfer to the dry shaft, power losses from transmission fluid, engine fluid, engine coolant (relate to temperature and it performance also duration of blabalbalbalbla.. I keep babbling again) and so on and on...... thats why i keep asking U what is the prove based on engineering analysis...


haiyoo.. I'm also sudah tua maaa... (tp hati muda la.).. the problem is U keep avoiding answer my question (or maybe I'm not fully understand your explanation because my english sooo bad) which is simple what actually U do and including other question I already ask that make U mention, there is no different either in std/cap ayam/ performance cable plug and "other thing in ignition" (saja tambah2 hahahaah)...U said U don't wan to explain with all the jargons in electrical terms that would make this forum become pening so I ask U to P.M me maa...still u keep avoiding to fully give the answer..and keep attacking me.. can I ask why? now i'm crying heheheheh...

I keep ask question to u because based on ur explanation...it seems u truly understand what actually happen and u like a person who work either as an engineer or lecturer something.. or maybe my perception about u is wrong?

for me if u already done the experiment u must know how or what to answer all the question maa. based on the fact backup with ur engneering knowledge ma.... If not ur test is questionable...

to other people really sorry laa... my curiosity drive me nuts... if he yet don't want to explained (pm me la with the answer or u can pm me how u done ur test so maybe we can pm each other) and keep changing and going back and forward with his answer... I will stop posting ok... realllyyyyy sorry again...

 

[EGNINE]

as a layman in automotiv engineering i understand that xtremeleo use 2 set of plug cable on the same dyno, 1 oem and the other one performance plug cable and he did adjust the ignition timing to complensate with whatever resistance which may occure with diff set of cable..the result performance cable indicate 7whp decrease.. no issue here with the dynomachine because it is still the same dyno which were use to read the hp n tork

 

[xtremeleo]

again to lazy because already explain liow... I want to cry.. flame propagation can be measured based on time, space and degree of crank angle.. I make it simple la... 1 rotation of crank is 360degree angle right? is U want to count the flame propagation inside the complete build engine how? U must know what are the duration of mixed a/f to complete burn.. u can count with sec or U can count it with degree of angle... how much degree it will take before it complete burn the a/f mixture.. as for testing the cable resistant and its performance.. never being done by me... THATS why I ask U.. If not I already flame U maaa... and said that Ur assumption is wrong......haiiyoooo... now i really want to cry I even mention that my knowledge in electrical is low and almost to none, do U understand what it means ha? The things is, I only have different opinion with u is based on my I.C.E knowledge maa... so if U can prove what U said about no different so better stick with stock cable please give an explanation but don't keep answering that u have done the test with the dyno and blalalalalabalala... for me the asnwer is rubbish. why like i mention before dyno wheels is not sensitive enough and the results is based on after the output of the wheels which already to many losses from the friction of the wheels, power transfer from dry shaft to the wheels, transmission transfer to the dry shaft, power losses from transmission fluid, engine fluid, engine coolant (relate to temperature and it performance also duration of blabalbalbalbla.. I keep babbling again) and so on and on...... thats why i keep asking U what is the prove based on engineering analysis...

iam using stock cable in my iswara, the cap ayam cable in my charade turbo is used because i cant get a new oem unit. explaination on what? ive laid the results i obtained personally, rubbish if u will, if u want more theory then u can read the book u posted up sir. i think there a lot in there to satisfy ur needs for.. well, anything u fancy i guess.. ive already proven to a lot of people about what i said, and iam not in the mood for any debate. believe as u want, its the internet anyway. why do u need me to prove this and dat from engineering pov?

haiyoo.. I'm also sudah tua maaa... (tp hati muda la.).. the problem is U keep avoiding answer my question (or maybe I'm not fully understand your explanation because my english sooo bad) which is simple what actually U do and including other question I already ask that make U mention, there is no different either in std/cap ayam/ performance cable plug and "other thing in ignition" (saja tambah2 hahahaah)...U said U don't wan to explain with all the jargons in electrical terms that would make this forum become pening so I ask U to P.M me maa...still u keep avoiding to fully give the answer..and keep attacking me.. can I ask why? now i'm crying heheheheh...

err, when did i attacked u plak dah? i dont wanna send a pm to you, and..? what was the question again? i tot ive answered every single one, i apologies if i missed any.. well, it seems sacarsm seems to be the in thing now, lol

I keep ask question to u because based on ur explanation...it seems u truly understand what actually happen and u like a person who work either as an engineer or lecturer something.. or maybe my perception about u is wrong?

y is this any of your business sir? we are seriously getting outta topic now, lol

for me if u already done the experiment u must know how or what to answer all the question maa. based on the fact backup with ur engneering knowledge ma.... If not ur test is questionable...

let them be qeustionable sir, if dat wud give u some peace of mind, i dont care the slightest also.. ive done tests and will continue to do so, its either for my own reference or it may help others, either way, iam gonna check sumthing up outta my own curiosity.

lets put a very big dot on dat shall we?

 

[dabok max7]

iam using stock cable in my iswara, the cap ayam cable in my charade turbo is used because i cant get a new oem unit. explaination on what? ive laid the results i obtained personally, rubbish if u will, if u want more theory then u can read the book u posted up sir. i think there a lot in there to satisfy ur needs for.. well, anything u fancy i guess.. ive already proven to a lot of people about what i said, and iam not in the mood for any debate. believe as u want, its the internet anyway. why do u need me to prove this and dat from engineering pov?


err, when did i attacked u plak dah? i dont wanna send a pm to you, and..? what was the question again? i tot ive answered every single one, i apologies if i missed any.. well, it seems sacarsm seems to be the in thing now, lol


y is this any of your business sir? we are seriously getting outta topic now, lol


let them be qeustionable sir, if dat wud give u some peace of mind, i dont care the slightest also.. ive done tests and will continue to do so, its either for my own reference or it may help others, either way, iam gonna check sumthing up outta my own curiosity.

lets put a very big dot on dat shall we?

ok first of all sorry again if i accuse u attack me, well i'm wrong when I'm wrong (maybe my sensitive side la that think U attack me foolish me) sorry again.. secondly yes is not my business to ask who are u sorry again foolish me....and the all that i argue is based what i understand from what I learn in the book that I post..(maybe I need to read again and missing something but still the book doesn't explain about electrical and electronic info)
and thirdly sorry again if my post actually out of topic....
and yes ur result obtain clearly for noloy plug cable but still u don't explain how and why it happen instead I understand from the explanation from the second link which from this website:
http://rxreviews.wordpress.com/2007/04/02/avoid-sun-hotwires-nology-hot-wires-on-the-8/
and I believe if u make a statement u should have like this explanation... thats what the different from normal people statement and engineering people statement.. but it's only me....maybe for u is different because U already got the result...

and sorry again for making u not in the mood for the debate because I'm only seeking the truth out of it and maybe I'm wrong so sorry again...

as for my question that u already answer its my bad and sorry for not noticing it... (but actually what are the answer I still don't get it heheheheh)

and as for my real question is put aside nology cable plug reason... the one I'm seeking is why other brand (doesn't matter cap ayam brand or branded one) with the less resistant than original one doesn't give improvement in engine performance because based on my stupid knowledge it suppose give improvement also u kept saying that less resistant does not contribute to stable voltage and I already give my opinion but the answer I get is only that U already done ur test and the result show clear view which is not added in performance what so ever..ok thats I understand but why? that what I'm asking again sir silly me and sorry again..and what I try to say in my previous statement is.. don't not judge easily because the result on the chassis dyno do not show any improvement because there is many factor could effect the results thats all... but silly me, who am I to question U sir......sorry again for my rubbish question... don't worry I will not post again in this forum (except in market place where i want to buy something hehehehe) sir because of respect to U who much senior than me....thank you to all the knowledge U share with me... sorry if i offend and make U annoying (betul ke ayat aku)
I'm type of guy who would not accept the result when the person who seem have a knowledge but said something like this:
"You can't ignite the fuel mixture twice. Once it explodes, it's spent" this statement taken from one of the link post earlier which is
http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-5C01-866C2FD-397CF16A-prod1
where I mention about flame propagation duration and relate to time.. what he means by once it explode it's spent? and cannot ignite twice than why the engineer do all the research and come up with twin spark ignition just to make better in engine combustion? so if u beleive this kind of guy than all the engineer who much better than him will become rubbish and stupid la. and it show how less knowledge about that guy who run the test but don't fully understand about what actually he seeking for.. the only thing he see is H.P....and the best part is..the is many info regarding combustion that u can seek and most of them I believe clearly state that to get complete combustion require time duration for all the fuel air mixture to complete burn...thats all....lastly I want to say really sorry to all because of this long post and me to become such annoying zth members... I'm out

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

where I mention about flame propagation duration and relate to time.. what he means by once it explode it's spent? and cannot ignite twice than why the engineer do all the research and come up with twin spark ignition just to make better in engine combustion? so if u beleive this kind of guy than all the engineer who much better than him will become rubbish and stupid la. and it show how less knowledge about that guy who run the test but don't fully understand about what actually he seeking for.. the only thing he see is H.P....and the best part is..the is many info regarding combustion that u can seek and most of them I believe clearly state that to get complete combustion require time duration for all the fuel air mixture to complete burn...thats all....lastly I want to say really sorry to all because of this long post and me to become such annoying zth members... I'm out

errr....i'm hereby to explain the truth about that....it is once ignited considered spent..(Like once broken considered sold)....

but the main reason engineer design twin spark is because...in such short time of ignition(a few mili seconds only) the mixture wasnt fully burnt....like u go see ppl selling sugar cane water...why they mill the same cane 2-3 times???because they still can extract the water inside even it have been squeezed first time....it was meaning efficiency..to use all available resource.....

same goes to internal combustion engine...if u can make the combustion 100% completed means u can get higher efficiency (not forgetting about cooling,thermal mass and internal energy etc etc chemical or so on related)..with higher efficiency then it supposed to be some released recovered power given the same amount of fuel and air going in....

then there's no point using expensive stuff if your current product was efficient enough....

 

[donCityZ]

Hi im back.

So, this topic is can say my fav topic. Stuff that dont work for modern EFi (injection engine) where the car is relatively new (5-6 yrs) for the purpose of increase power/torque.

1. Stromberg
2. Air bleeders (microcompressor, surbo, jubo etc)
3. Superione and magic K2N stone
4. Spark plugs (if ur engine parts are all stock).
5. VS
6. GC

Dun belip me, go ahead and buy and feel powah of placebo effect. Booyakaza!

---------- Post added at 05:23 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:13 PM ----------

the so-called performance cables do not increase anything, they just last longer jer.. u feel a power increment when changing from the old std unit to a new ngk, memang feel more power ler. weve compared new to new, no difference at all, if any pun it was too little sangat.

avoid nology, we found out dat it decrease hp, 7hp to to be exact when we tested it. i prefer to use new std unit everytime compared to a more aftermarket counterparts. things like cables, plugs, change regularly lagi elok. i apologies for the rojak english, not in the mood today ler, tengah malas2..:stupid:

I knew about this like 4-5 years ago already. That's why i never change my stock plug cable. stock one works the best. Nology is a scam really. Build so much hype. And people bought it based on that. Dynos tests were rigged. Heck, even putting VS can be shown to increase 10% power using dynos.. go figure.

Nology is particularly crap, because they added the grounding lines. That ground just depletes spark energy direct to car body and make less spark energy transfered to the spark plugs.

A good spark plug cable is the one with best material for the insulation, and that it delivers enough energy to spark a plug, and at the same time is equipped with the best EMI suppresion construction.

 

[xtremeleo]

because it doesnt, internal resistance doesnt add or decrease stability sir, it doesnt. the thing dat affects stability of current flowing in the cable is radio wave / magnetic interference. internal resistance is affected by heat, depending on the characteristics of the material; whether its a positive or negative coefficient material. even then, most cables are made in similar ways; the protective outer layer is made out of silicone, so comparison on performance from dat point of view can simply be dropped.

......

maybe we have a different view in the word "stability", what do u see in dat word? i see a state dat isnt affected by its surroundings. internal resistance does change with heat, heat expands metal, and when metal expands, the resistance value changes. but because resistance is also affected by the surface area of the cable itself, and expansion on this part will result in decrement in resistance, i think its negligible, dont u think so? plus, the other cables dat we tested (more then two sets) will also experience similar effect, so the end result is the most important part. we have no access to expensive test rigs as u put it, so we cant measure flame expansion, flame kernel production, etc. maybe u can perform a better test on a better test equipment and report back? we wud luv to see the results from ur experiment pulak, can? asyik dengar orang punyea pun tak best jugek, lets see urs pulak ler..

where I mention about flame propagation duration and relate to time.. what he means by once it explode it's spent? and cannot ignite twice than why the engineer do all the research and come up with twin spark ignition just to make better in engine combustion? so if u beleive this kind of guy than all the engineer who much better than him will become rubbish and stupid la. and it show how less knowledge about that guy who run the test but don't fully understand about what actually he seeking for.. the only thing he see is H.P....and the best part is..the is many info regarding combustion that u can seek and most of them I believe clearly state that to get complete combustion require time duration for all the fuel air mixture to complete burn...thats all....lastly I want to say really sorry to all because of this long post and me to become such annoying zth members... I'm out

ive explained dis before, its to produce a more complete combustion by covering a larger area, its not dat hard u to understand kot.. they have bigger bore, a single spark may not be able to burn a farther mixture from it, so another spark is introduced at a distance from the first plug. it sparks simultaneously, no issue of "once burnt cannot be burnt anymore", well sumthing like dat.. plus, its their signature, biar jer ler..

i dont think u r annoying, just dont repeat the question banyak kali sangat.. because my answer is gonna be the same jer, havent u noticed? if u seek for a different answer, then the internet is wide open. as stated, iam citing experiences / results, good day sir

 

[Izso]

one school of thought says that the multiple electrode part of the sparkies will 'disrupt' the flame kernel expansion, hence why some people actually bother to index their single-electrode sparkies so the open gap will face the center of the cylinder, supposedly better for combustion

denso iridiums didnt work for me :P didnt last long enough, the other time the insulator broke...which could be due to other things also lah hehehe

i say stick to fresh new shiny cheap @$$ coppers :P

Tofu taikor.. your car is too heavily modded to have any difference la...

On my humble ride, I've used a variety of plugs and the one that made a difference for me was the Iridiums. Very neglible, but still a difference nonetheless. Acceleration was smoother and I think the car was that very slightly more responsive. These were 1 year old used plugs that I borrowed off a friend. Switching back to stock NGK coppers the feel was instantly different, rougher acceleration and somewhat noisier.

Mind you, my butt dyno was for my own car which I'm quite sensitive about mainly because it was my daily ride. And the main reason for my hypersensitivity is because my car has broken down on me one too many times (including a timing belt snap) so the slightest of difference I get worried.

But that's not saying the price you pay for these plugs is justified. I'd still rather stick to el-cheapo plugs and just change them more regularly.

 

[hachiroku clan]

i second to that.. i rather use cheap plugs, as long as they are slightly better then my previous worn out plugs.. used bosch super 4 before.. last time i thought ''wah got 4 side-electrode, sure-fire wan'' so i bought n felt syok lah.. but actually its same as any new 'normal' sparkplug..

since were talking abt sparkplugs, does the Bosch super4 s/plug produce smaller or 'wider' spark that a single electrode plug?

 

[xtremeleo]

i dunno about the gap size, but they can be adjusted on the super fours. adjust accordingly

i felt iridium was slightly better then std plugs, not the std ones dat i mod. dats y i stop buying iridium plugs

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

i use modified cheap ass sparkplugs only.... take out clean and check gap clearance every 1 or 2 months... change new set every 6 months or less....

 

[briconner]

wait. How about exterior modification? I have been trying to install husky liner to my car. Are these parts ok?

 

[xtremeleo]

wait. How about exterior modification? I have been trying to install husky liner to my car. Are these parts ok?

truthfully sir, i dunno how to answer dat.. what i see in the link is mud guard flaps, i dont see dat as a type of modification.. maybe i dont understand the question?

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

core exterior add-on like mudflaps or bullbar was essential depends on the surrounding/location where did u live....

if u always doing jungle tracking and towing or cattle for cows/horse/lamb etc etc then surely u need those....


but in this topic much discussed as a in-appropiate/useless add-on that the daily-driven owner didn't actually need it in the first place...such ass overkill big exhaust with puny engine,or using airbus A380 sized wing on your car....surely not worth it rite???or should we called priceless-idiotic act???

 

[HKS-GT2835R]

wait. How about exterior modification? I have been trying to install husky liner to my car. Are these parts ok?

wtf? does it reduce FC? how the hell it manages that?:stupid:

 

[xtremeleo]

it does? i musta missded sumthing when reading the site then, alamak.. i dont wanna go through another session of aerodynamics again, the past session also has many corrections yet to be done, lol

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

i din't see any writing in that site stating that mudflaps or the liner reduce FC???care to share which part did it state about that??

 

[mysql2779]

If VS does consider as mod too. then I vote for VS. totally have no idea what it did. My headlight and AC no differences also. Same..........

 

[DanzEterna]

its only a gimmick....i bought the ori pivot VS, no difference.