Water Injection & Water-Methanol Injection

[netken]

sifu - anywhere got sell meth kit with install with resonable price?

other than those in sunway.

 

[fastlearner]

Hi bros, i just bought the AEM kit and now in the midst of installing it. My only question would be where to mount the nozzle? I know it has to be b4 the TB, but the real question is- b4 or after IAT sensor? i know it sounds completely easy, by logic it should be mount b4 the IAT sensor right? But after browsing through few local/oversea forums, so far its 50/50. Some say b4 the sensor and some say after. Mostly the argument is about the meth/water will destroy the sensor if mounted b4 the sensor, thats y they mounted it after. And they say, it should be as close to the TB to get the best combustion, i.e thats y the injectors are place so close to the engine etc. I have no clue on this, thats y im askin, so what say u guys? Which one should i follow and y? thanks in advance!

Here are few examples of the debate -

http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,26053.15.html

Meth nozzle and IAT sensor placement help - evolutionm.net

 

[AlucarD]

Is your car turbo or NA? If turbo I will mount it as far as possible from the Throttle. This will be better for the atomization of the water/methanol. If NA as close as possible to the Throttle so the sucktion will be the strongest and the mist do not form into large droplets that will that will hamper atomization. Your Fuel Injectors are different! The run very high pressure and fuel explodes that is why its mounted as close as possible in a road car.

I would also put my water/methanol injectors before the IAT. The ECU will then read the cooler temps and will not pull timing. If you put after IAT then not so optimun. Imagine IAT detects hot air before injector, starts dumping fuel and pulling timing, while you inject cold mist after that. The engine will be bogged down. This will apply to both if you tune or don't tune for water/meth injection

Again, depends if you are running full meth or water/meth. If full meth then as close as possible to the throttle as full meth is very corrosive if water/meth then it is quite safe. My IAT is still working after all these years with the correct temp readings.

---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

Correction... if turbo, nozzle should be as far as possible before the throttle before the intercooler :)

 

[fastlearner]

OK roger that, thanks!
Any other opinion/comment/suggestion? my car is BOT anyway

 

[Charles]

Hi Fastlearner, where can i get this AEM kit complete and does it suit NA engines? Ballpark price? Thanks.

 

[fastlearner]

I bought from a friend who bought direct from US. If u wanna get locally, im not sure bro, sorry. Maybe others can assist u on this...

 

[Charles]

Ballpark figure i should be looking at perhaps? Ty.

 

[AD_EG]

nice thread..bro kohoyos mentioned usd399 -> Rm1264. not sure if this includes tax & postage.

on ebay : $438.87 inclusive of shipping = Rm1390.78

 

[AlucarD]

I believe RevPerformace have a few kit left

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/engine-and-performance/382867-cooling-mist-water-methanol-injection-kit.html#post1063620092

 

[ahmedshaikhani]

You can get AEM water methanol injection kit from www.nolimitmotorsport.com for $350. Its cheap there.

 

[DavidLiew]

Sorry. I am newbie here. Is Water-Methanol Injection designed for use in turbo cars only? :rolleyes:

 

[AlucarD]

No, NA cars that are high reving, high compression will benefit also but not as much as Turbo cars. For NA its more for supressing engine knock. You may also want to use a system that varies flow so that you do not over spray.

 

[szern]

From past experience, for a stock NA car with no engine management (ie. timing advance for injection/ignition etc) its more for cooling purposes, maybe a slight increase in air density (for stock NA car, there's usually no knocking, so can't even say knock suppression).

Without timing advance, nearly negligible gains in HP or Torque (something like 0.5%-1%). Definitely can't feel much with Butt Dyno (though sometimes it does feel like its pulling away stronger at high rpm, note I said "feel"), but on a proper dyno, you can see the minute difference :)

For NA, try mapping to TPS with a progressive controller.
Previously made a mistake of mapping to MAF, it screws up the MAF :(
Switched to TPS instead.
Set to about 3V, maxing at about 4.5V
That should make it start spraying at about 3-4k RPM with full injection at 5-6k RPM.
Tho' for NA, you can go for the smallest injector.

 

[AlucarD]

Question is why invest on a water/meth kit when the engine is stock? I will rather spend my money on a good ecu or a set of cams.

 

[DavidLiew]

No, NA cars that are high reving, high compression will benefit also but not as much as Turbo cars. For NA its more for supressing engine knock. You may also want to use a system that varies flow so that you do not over spray.

Thanks bro. Can it be use to increase hp in n/a?

From past experience, for a stock NA car with no engine management (ie. timing advance for injection/ignition etc) its more for cooling purposes, maybe a slight increase in air density (for stock NA car, there's usually no knocking, so can't even say knock suppression).

Without timing advance, nearly negligible gains in HP or Torque (something like 0.5%-1%). Definitely can't feel much with Butt Dyno (though sometimes it does feel like its pulling away stronger at high rpm, note I said "feel"), but on a proper dyno, you can see the minute difference :)

For NA, try mapping to TPS with a progressive controller.
Previously made a mistake of mapping to MAF, it screws up the MAF :(
Switched to TPS instead.
Set to about 3V, maxing at about 4.5V
That should make it start spraying at about 3-4k RPM with full injection at 5-6k RPM.
Tho' for NA, you can go for the smallest injector.

Thanks bro for the information. It sounds very technical to me. I currently installed with E-Manage. Is that mean I can use Water-Methanol Injection to increase hp? Do you know where can I get kits and any recommendation on good installer?

Question is why invest on a water/meth kit when the engine is stock? I will rather spend my money on a good ecu or a set of cams.

Hi bro. Because I have done all that

Current I have the following:

1. 272 High Cam
2. Adjustable Cam Pulley
3. Lighten Crank Pulley
4. Adjustable Fuel Regulator
5. 4-2-1 Extractor
6. K&N Drop-in
7. Iridium Spark Plugs
8. 3 Core Plug Cable
9. E-Manage

Don't know what else to do :rolleyes:

 

[speed2horizon]

When Alucard says Good ECU, it doesn't mean Good Piggyback. The Methanol/water injection basically provide cooler air for combustion.

Cooler air = dense air = higher o2 content = better combustion
cooler air also = reduction in detonation possibility = more aggressive tuning without worrying about detonation

Methanol/water injection does very little to the RON increment. Unless u use 100% methanol without mixing with water.

 

[AlucarD]

Correct!! There is not much hp gain from using water/meth injection itself. I'm talking about a mixture to cool the incoming air and not to add fuel like using 100% meth.

Your gains will come from tuning where you will be able to run leaner, high timing and boost. My opinion is that water/meth allows you to run agreeasive tuning with a safety margin. My car is tuned for water/meth. Without it I have to be in low boost and revs below 6k or the knock count will go crazy.

For NA best to map the kit to at lease a 2D parameter for activation. Say tps and load. If You have a stabdalone that has enought output or the kit comes with a seperate controller you can even do 3D aka tps, load, rpm or even egt You don't want to rely solely on one parameter. A more comprehensive system will incorporate a variable flow controller where you can adjust the flow and pressure. Then you can run larger injector sizes but still maintain proper flow.

 

[suxmyevo]

anybody know reliable workshop for installation methanol kit?? i got aquamist set to install..my fren bought for me from oversea.

 

[ahmedshaikhani]

For All-Motor engines with High Compression Ratio like 13:1 or even above that Water Methanol Injection kit is useful. You can play with ignition timing safely !!

 

[DavidLiew]

Thanks all sifus for all the information. Now I am better understand of Water-Methanol Injection