VTEC RON95 Myth

[xtremeleo]

a simple will suffice, i have my timing retarded to 50deg in the wira fyi

 

[6UE5t]

The second video was the one I saw on TV the other day.

 

[Izso]

The only real way to test which fuel is better is to do controlled test & dyno runs of each fuels on different vehicles...If not, it's just a matter of opinion...there are alot of factors to take into account....:hmmmm:

I personally think it's subjective. The test platform will also determine the result of your test right? My Wira vs someone elses Wira might not yield the same results. Different parts lifespan, different modifications (if any), different maintenance, etc. I'll bet even the spark current/voltage is different. So I doubt a test like this be beneficial.

 

[xtremeleo]

although u r true iszo,but it can be made as a reference. i dont think there are much difference between engines with similar spec,so will d outcome will not differ much

 

[vr2turbo]

But the test is not the difference between cars, but using same car and using different fuel...:hmmmm:

 

[Izso]

although u r true iszo,but it can be made as a reference. i dont think there are much difference between engines with similar spec,so will d outcome will not differ much

there's also another consideration - not all petrol station petrol quality is necessarily the same. Have to assume the station owner is honest and only uses one supplier and also another thing is that he keeps his underground storage tanks clean and changes it every 3 years (I think that's the industry standard age)

 

[vr2turbo]

there's also another consideration - not all petrol station petrol quality is necessarily the same. Have to assume the station owner is honest and only uses one supplier and also another thing is that he keeps his underground storage tanks clean and changes it every 3 years (I think that's the industry standard age)

If want 100% then have to be controlled test already. If market test then cannot loh.....

 

[stingg]

kful of octane booster claim too. When they say up by 9 point means up by 0.9. That means ron 95 become ron 95.9 only.

 

[shiroitenshi]

wow long time never enter. Busy with work.

AFAIK whether or not your car can run ron95 is based om dynamic compression ratio, which is usually 7-8.5 or more, depending on what fuel you run, down from your static compression ratio of 9-13+. how dynamic compression is derived is based on your cam duration and timing, its a moving value, which changes depending on cam profile from 1k rpm to 9k rpm so don't think that 7-8.5 is a static number, thats why its called a dynamic compression ratio. Also related to why vtec has two cam profiles to maximise power output, and also why adjustable timing like ivtec is good for low end power, because it can keep in that dynamic comp ratio at a good value throughout the rev range.

Head design also plays a part in enabling you to run higher compression. clover leaf designs are supposed to do that, but due to cost and negligible performance increase, most auto makers just don't use it.

Final part is is how ignition timing works to help reduce knocking, since increasing dynamic compression induces knocking due to high combustion pressures, what we do is retard timing to reduce that pressure, so if you fill up with 95, and find knocking, backing off the static ignition ny a degree or two can sometimes help, but reducing combustion chamber pressure = less power, and also... more heat.

some old volvos actually have a jumper at the distributor, that jumper retards the ignition or advances the static ignition timing by a few degrees depending on what fuel you put in.

A good question is why car manufacturers don't simply make high compression and big duration cams and make big power? Valvetrain wear. When you run big cams, don't expect high mileage out of it, 100k or more, you need to probably replace the valvetrain.

so if you have to run Ron95, and find knocking, you can retard a degree or two on the distributor, and drive it around.. well mostly...



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[ddv_nk12]

Wah lahad datu?

The exhaust bup bup bup isn't engine knocking sound. Engine knocking sound is something like pinging..like two flat flexible plate tapping each other...klank klank klank. If you wana have a feel of how it sounds, try going up hill, then put high gear and press the pedal. You hear that sound for sure.

I think ur engine has no problem with RON95. But as per mentioned before, the safest is by looking at the engine spec and manual book for clearer statement.

My car has that klank klank sound. It happens when i accelerate at higher gears, usually 5th gear. For example, at 60km/h on 5th gear, I accelerate and I hear that sound. And when i'm travelling at high speed say 150km/h, I also hear that.

Does this mean that my engine is knocking? And is that ok or bad? Damn I'm worried now.

 

[vr2turbo]

My car has that klank klank sound. It happens when i accelerate at higher gears, usually 5th gear. For example, at 60km/h on 5th gear, I accelerate and I hear that sound. And when i'm travelling at high speed say 150km/h, I also hear that.

Does this mean that my engine is knocking? And is that ok or bad? Damn I'm worried now.

If it is knocking then is not good. Long term will damage the engine. But should not be metallic sound. Knocking usually comes with loss of power like going to misfire and comes with load and/or at higher rpm.

 

[ddv_nk12]

When u say not like metallic sound, do u mean that klank klank sound is ok? It means that it's not knocking?

I noticed another thing, usually when i pump Esso Ron 95, as I'm driving out of the station, it will be ok. Then when I tekan, it's like not accelerating at all. But then suddenly it will jerk like that. It this what u mean by misfiring?

I'm sorry but I'm not too familiar with words like misfiring and all. I can only imagine what its like but I don't know if it is what it is exactly until I feel it.

If so, my car is misfiring and all, what do I need to do now?

 

[Izso]

When u say not like metallic sound, do u mean that klank klank sound is ok? It means that it's not knocking?

I noticed another thing, usually when i pump Esso Ron 95, as I'm driving out of the station, it will be ok. Then when I tekan, it's like not accelerating at all. But then suddenly it will jerk like that. It this what u mean by misfiring?

I'm sorry but I'm not too familiar with words like misfiring and all. I can only imagine what its like but I don't know if it is what it is exactly until I feel it.

If so, my car is misfiring and all, what do I need to do now?

The klakklakklak sound you get when you are shifting gear and the car doesn't really move is pinging, high revving and you hear knocking sound, that's knocking/pinging (same thing).

Misfiring is when you're accelerating and your engine is choking, feels very jerky and just feels like the car isn't firing on all cylinders.

 

[vr2turbo]

When u say not like metallic sound, do u mean that klank klank sound is ok? It means that it's not knocking?

I noticed another thing, usually when i pump Esso Ron 95, as I'm driving out of the station, it will be ok. Then when I tekan, it's like not accelerating at all. But then suddenly it will jerk like that. It this what u mean by misfiring?

I'm sorry but I'm not too familiar with words like misfiring and all. I can only imagine what its like but I don't know if it is what it is exactly until I feel it.

If so, my car is misfiring and all, what do I need to do now?

Better get is checked. Even if not knocking, any sound for that matter is not good....

 

[ddv_nk12]

The klakklakklak sound you get when you are shifting gear and the car doesn't really move is pinging, high revving and you hear knocking sound, that's knocking/pinging (same thing).

Misfiring is when you're accelerating and your engine is choking, feels very jerky and just feels like the car isn't firing on all cylinders.

Ok. My car is moving fine when I'm shifting. When high revving, will the car also feel like its not really moving?

This misfiring thing happens only when I fill my car with Esso Ron 95. It really feels like the engine is choking. But it only happens when I tekan. Slowly accelerate no choking or jerking. Is it misfiring? Usually this misfiring thing happens all the time or occasionally like what I'm facing?

 

[shiroitenshi]

Ok. My car is moving fine when I'm shifting. When high revving, will the car also feel like its not really moving?

This misfiring thing happens only when I fill my car with Esso Ron 95. It really feels like the engine is choking. But it only happens when I tekan. Slowly accelerate no choking or jerking. Is it misfiring? Usually this misfiring thing happens all the time or occasionally like what I'm facing?

Ah, I think you are the rare few who owns a high performance honda with a stock ecu. The feel you described is very similar to the ECu pulling ignition timing after it encounter knock

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[vr2turbo]

Ok. My car is moving fine when I'm shifting. When high revving, will the car also feel like its not really moving?

This misfiring thing happens only when I fill my car with Esso Ron 95. It really feels like the engine is choking. But it only happens when I tekan. Slowly accelerate no choking or jerking. Is it misfiring? Usually this misfiring thing happens all the time or occasionally like what I'm facing?

What about other brand Ron 95?
The explanation quite similar to my VR using Ron 95 last time. Slow speed below 4k RPM no problem but if accelerate cannot go pass 4.5k RPM. Hesitation, refuse to go to higher revs, jerks and so on. This means it is knocking....

 

[ddv_nk12]

Ah, I think you are the rare few who owns a high performance honda with a stock ecu. The feel you described is very similar to the ECu pulling ignition timing after it encounter knock

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But I'm using s300? It was dyno tuned. Could it be because it was not properly tuned?

What about other brand Ron 95?
The explanation quite similar to my VR using Ron 95 last time. Slow speed below 4k RPM no problem but if accelerate cannot go pass 4.5k RPM. Hesitation, refuse to go to higher revs, jerks and so on. This means it is knocking....

Other brand ron95 no problem. In fact my car has always been using ron95. The problem is not similar to yours. I can slowly accelerate till 8k or 9k. But if I pedal to the floor quickly then it chokes.

 

[shiroitenshi]

But I'm using s300? It was dyno tuned. Could it be because it was not properly tuned?

then probably your s300 has the knock sensor turned on, thus pulling ign timing on knock, hence the 'heavy feel' instead of the pinging sound of knocking.

if not, then it is possible that you have ignition/spark related issues. which should not be related to what fuel you run. I'm also in s300, but I have to disable the knock sensor due to running forged pistons. they rattle a bit when cold.

The way you described sound like missed spark or retarded timing.
I do remember earlier versions of hondata maps (pre 1.2.0) have issues of corruption after multiple map uploads and downloads. Had that back in early 2003/05's. Certain rpms bogged due to ecu randomly pulling timing. by 1.4.0, they fixed that so should not be an issue now.

Other brand ron95 no problem. In fact my car has always been using ron95. The problem is not similar to yours. I can slowly accelerate till 8k or 9k. But if I pedal to the floor quickly then it chokes.

First, swap your plugs, secondly try swapping your cables. I had this same issue. turned out it was my spark plug cables causing a no spark/misfire. At first thought it was tuning, but no, I couldn't tune out the bogging that only happens at sudden full throttle conditions.

It could be the mapping also, so check that too. But sometimes its just old plug cables giving too much resistance and giving you a weak spark

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[DeaconFrost]

Other brand ron95 no problem. In fact my car has always been using ron95. The problem is not similar to yours. I can slowly accelerate till 8k or 9k. But if I pedal to the floor quickly then it chokes.

Does the 'choking' happens at 2.5k-3.5k rpm?