Lets discuss Petronas E01

[MitonCT26]

the E01W engines did not take off to race even one event contrary to rumors.

the engines in those protons are a few rare so-called 80% race spec engines...and as far as i know there are a limited numbers of waja, putra and GTIs with these babies. most of them are locked nicely in a garage in SIC.

i personally drove a few times before the E01W Wajas during each F1 event in SIC. i can safely say, the engine response, torque and hp is definately enough to justify its 200hp claim. i dare not say it will outrun any car cos there is no benchmark but a few laps in SIC is enough for you to know it's potential.

but i can tell you one thing tough. warming up the engine early in the morning with it's shims clicking reminds me of toyota 20V VVTis...

just keep an eye on those cars during SIC F1 events. 3 of the wajas will be parked near to the AMG safety car while some of them would be seen roaming around the service roads around the track. those 3 equipped with bilstien coilovers, OZ superturismo rims, bridgestone S03 rubbers and upgraded exhaust.

i dare say, if it's plonked into the GTi, it would be the ultimate pocket rocket.

 

[lekalo]

OKLAH! I ask my big boss if I can have 1 for my GTi. Yeahuuuu!!!
If he don't want to give, then I try ask for the FP1 to become the King of all Mat Rempits!!!

 

[drMpower]

I thought E01 is a running proto?

the question here is still, does that quantify this engine as "proven"? remember, its still in prototype form.. you said "you" didn't hear of any problems.. those that quantify the engine as proven?



btw black samurai, I usually try my best not to give "conflicting" opinions, nor do I try and write "fiction". I don't make things up. I just comment based on what has been said in the official news.

If you have read the news, its says that china company(NAC) still has to work together with Petronas R&D to get the engines to the mass manufacturing level. The engines are only slated for delivery in 2009. Thats almost 2-3 years of hardwork. If the engines are so "ready" and not a "prototype", why do you need to work on them for another 2 years to get them to market?

eehh..I thought E01 is a running proto? They even installed the later version of
E01 into some Wajas and Satria GTIs back in the late 90-s/ early 2000. and those engine only Euro 3 compliance, rite? and these days/ revised engine only got
Euro 5 compliance.

The only logical reason for shipping the engine in 2009 is that NAC is not ready with their own R&D and giving Petrolnas some 2 years for NAC to gain some ground. or the engine is alright, but NAC is planning something INTERESTING..

China first SportsCar? Perhaps? Well, the designs, the clay proto, testing proto actually worth of a 2/3 years project...NAC should only design the chasis to contemplate with the 200hp engine and they can do that because they own MG
( correct me if I am wrong)

We? Malaysian? Proton? Gigit jari lah!

 

[gary]

A running prototype, in a few cars, is still a PROTOTYPE. That doesn't make it a mass-production ready engine.

They also cannot claim euro-5 compliance, until they have built the actual engine, and submit it through the testing and homologation process, which will only happen just before the 2009 i'm guessing.

it is not because NAC is not ready, or petronas is not ready. The Engine is not ready. Petronas cannot bring this engine to market by themselves thats why they had to look for partners, and thats why it will only happen in 2009.

building 5-10 200hp prototypes is one thing, but to build 100,000 engines yearly, and consistently.... that an entirely different prospect. But it will definitely not have 200hp.

 

[MitonCT26]

OKLAH! I ask my big boss if I can have 1 for my GTi. Yeahuuuu!!!
If he don't want to give, then I try ask for the FP1 to become the King of all Mat Rempits!!!

lan,

you want call me only la...we both go 'pop' i inside SIC garage lor... :shcokedcamo:

 

[lekalo]

waaa...? you there now ah? Yu must have a very colourful CV my friend. Is yr P.I.M.P Daddy number still the same? I chowll you lah, then we lepak in SIC. Can? For old friends can la....
I'm selling my ride. Got any1 u know who wants a GTi? Let me know.
Sorry to ruin the thread with irrelevant stuff.

Anyway E01.. I hope whoever takes it can help prove to the world that Malaysia can do something which benefits car lovers arnd the globe.
Especially if the reviews on the engine (once mass produced) are positive!

 

[faisal]

Is the production engine is going to be alloy block like the proto?

Is the production engine still going to produce 200bhp AND yet meet Euro 5 emission standards?

Maybe Petronas & Nyanang Auto have the funding and capacity to set up a Alloy casting plant, and engine assembly plant?

Maybe Nyanyang Auto are able to produce the engine in such large volumes it's going to lower the cost?

Oh ya, How is Yamaha going to be involved this time? Last time round they built the EO1s protos. Some say they are the real designers

Too many questions. Unanswered

ps. I personally would luv to have a Neo R3 with a 200bhp E01, but let's get real here, the price would shoot through the roof and honestly how many malaysians would pay top dollar for a Proton?

Talk is cheap

 

[Grixism]

Oh ya, How is Yamaha going to be involved this time? Last time round they built the EO1s protos. Some say they are the real designers

faisal, do u mean yamaha hav sumthin to do with the e01?last time i checked yamaha built blocks for toyota is superb.they really know how to mix the metal

 

[gary]

Is the production engine is going to be alloy block like the proto?

Is the production engine still going to produce 200bhp AND yet meet Euro 5 emission standards?

Maybe Petronas & Nyanang Auto have the funding and capacity to set up a Alloy casting plant, and engine assembly plant?

Maybe Nyanyang Auto are able to produce the engine in such large volumes it's going to lower the cost?

Oh ya, How is Yamaha going to be involved this time? Last time round they built the EO1s protos. Some say they are the real designers

Too many questions. Unanswered

ps. I personally would luv to have a Neo R3 with a 200bhp E01, but let's get real here, the price would shoot through the roof and honestly how many malaysians would pay top dollar for a Proton?

Talk is cheap

Thank you, at least somebody else understands what i'm trying to get at.

 

[Zeroed]

Gary, I dont know why are you so skeptical about the engine. Honda has been mass producing 2L engines making 250hp for the S2000 since many years ago. Petronas isnt a weak company, they do participate in F1 and I wouldnt be surprised if they made a 100hp/L road going engine. Even Alfa Romeo is getting close these days (and many others have already achieved it). Ive spoken to a Petronas research employee before, and you'd be surprised with the standards they have in that company.

Of course the actual engines dont produce as much power as claimed, but we're talking about paper figures here and its the same for all companies. Infact Ive read an article that those that will be used in China are comfort variants of the E-01 and the output is far from being close to 100hp/L. But the fact is it could have been done, a 200hp NA Type-R-ish Proton could have been derived from a joint development with Petronas. But alas, Im thinking that its the lack of profitability that stopped the making.

Youre right, its not easy to just drop in the engine and produce a 200hp car. But we're not talking about the undertree mechanics here or Proton alone. We're talking about Petronas. And to even think that the prototype already existed.


As for the many more years of development before the engines are actually put out on sale, I would think that it has to do with creating the means for mass production and optimizing/finalizing the engine for the market's usage.

 

[K_Takuya]

somehow i think i rather petronas do the work with japanese companies.. for the quality sake.....

 

[encikmasen]

A running prototype, in a few cars, is still a PROTOTYPE. That doesn't make it a mass-production ready engine.

They also cannot claim euro-5 compliance, until they have built the actual engine, and submit it through the testing and homologation process, which will only happen just before the 2009 i'm guessing.

it is not because NAC is not ready, or petronas is not ready. The Engine is not ready. Petronas cannot bring this engine to market by themselves thats why they had to look for partners, and thats why it will only happen in 2009.

building 5-10 200hp prototypes is one thing, but to build 100,000 engines yearly, and consistently.... that an entirely different prospect. But it will definitely not have 200hp.

yes, a running prototype is still a prototype..but if proton at taht time (1999) took the offer, IMO, they can save millions if not, in term of rnd..and the only thing for them is to refine that engine, continuous developement with petronas..maybe we all did not get the exact 200+hp engine in our car but heck, maybe we already get the 2.0 waja with kleeman supercharger..

i dun care if petronas sell that engine to NAC, or even honda or toyota, but why back then proton did not took the opportunity to make their company profitable again..

2 cents again..

 

[fatsobob]

hello

nice topic we got here

my source:

a childhood neighbour / friend who previously work with team PSP petronas BTCC, 2 yrs in japan developing eow1, and currently with BMW sauber . f1 engine testing. kalau tengok pada job background dia memang jealoues gila sebab dia punya kerja semua pasal performance car. sekarang tilting with f1 engine plak tu. katanya blok engine f1 tu bole di lambung2. ringan nak mampus

and yes. he is currently workin with petronas with 5 other guys at bmw sauber

ooops

back to our story

petronas develop this engine with yamaha. for 2 yrs he work in japan developing this engine.

how much can this engine produce: if u don't mine using this engine for 2 session only. mean lepas dua kali pakai bole buang....hp 240.

daily use 200hp

why proton pull out in the first place. all i can say, from my source. this had to do wit none othrs then. POLITIC! this top managment laaa from proton and petronas. proton kecik ati sebab petronas claim eow1 is malaysian first develope engine, buy them without mentioning proton as their co partner. so tengku mahalel naik angin la. so in the end CAMPRO pun keluar. that time supposed proton use e0w01. but cos sakit hati punya pasal, they pull the plug and decide to make develop their own engine. petronas pun terkedu. duit dah banyak spend tapi takde sape nak engine diorang.

and according to my source baru2 nie proton refer balik kat petronas they want to use e0w01. but petronas pulak jual mahal. and at the same time china carmaker want that engine to.

by now we know what happen. proton melopong laaaa

this is what happen if u mix politic with enthusiasm. all the touge of proton and petronas get along with one another. their goal are simple. to make malaysia car better. but this mentimun.... all the top managment are just suck! egoist!

better stop here coz for 2 days during raya me and my friend (source) kept talking bout this. orang lain cerita pasal beraya, aku sama dia asik cerita pasal kereta........ tengah korek rahsia BMW plak.... heheheeh!

1 thing........ sadly... BMW sebenarnya tak suka petronas.... unlike during the sauber petronas.... people get along with another.....bmw punya orang eksen... u know laaa...GERMANS.... hitler...get that. they think they are superior being.

ok thats all 4 now

p/s

currently there are 10 unit of waja with E0W01 sit nicely inside petronas garage.....hehehehehe! Cun o if i got 1. and yes my friend. memang boleh tapau vtech.....easily:regular_smile:

 

[drMpower]

hey listen guys..I think it is high time of Petronas to get on with all its got.. and to you, HASSAN MERICAN, if you are reading this forum, please..please consider my idea for Malaysia's sake..

Get Petronas to develop chassis for that engine! And get Petronas to produce our own..very own first SUPERCAR!

There is a reason why I mention this. See... Petronas learned a lot by its involvement in Formula 1. The engine is there. the expertise is there. The missing part is only the chassis and the body. It is as simple as that. snap!

Forget the people telling Petronas to stick to producing oils, blah -blah- blah... Petronas got the technology, they got the money, and they got the loads, so why not venture into SUPERCAR?? after all, if Petronas should stick to oil only, then the expertise gained in Formula One is wasted! totally wasted!

There are lots of rich sons of rich people in Malaysia. And if Petronas get it right, then money is not a problem. in fact money has never been a problem.

Now HASSAN MERICAN, you've heard me. You know my number and just give me a call. right?

 

[encikmasen]

There is a reason why I mention this. See... Petronas learned a lot by its involvement in Formula 1. The engine is there. the expertise is there. The missing part is only the chassis and the body. It is as simple as that. snap!

that's why they offer it to proton at the first place..fully own malaysian company..not like p2 which is in majority own by japs..but this proton management are so blardy sombong wan..dowan to accept their brother's work and claim the can do better..

this is what happen if u mix politic with enthusiasm. all the touge of proton and petronas get along with one another. their goal are simple. to make malaysia car better. but this mentimun.... all the top managment are just suck! egoist!

nuffsaid.. they've really dig their own grave..

 

[MitonCT26]

hehehe...yamaha produced it eh...

no wonder the shims sound so familiar...sharing the same DNA as the toyota VVTis....

 

[gary]

zeroed, i'm not skeptical at all,
honda, alfa...etc. these are companies who have been building engines for years, and high performances engines at that, not just your run of the mill types. no one comes out of the woodwork, and starts building super engines for mass production that are reliable, and are low cost. remember, NAC will not be building high-cost performance cars. They will most likely be aiming their cars at the bread and butter crowd (this is where all car companies make money). If its possible for a company with no experience with production cars/engines, and a new car company from china to do that, maybe you could tell me how are they going to go about it... plus that most annoying fact, they actually have to make is commercially viable.

somehow, most of you guys here are not taking all these factors into account. mass production is a whole different animal.

"There is a reason why I mention this. See... Petronas learned a lot by its involvement in Formula 1. The engine is there. the expertise is there. The missing part is only the chassis and the body. It is as simple as that. snap!"

SOMEONE please tell me how involvement in F1, and having "some" F1 experience helps you build a commercially, and technologically successful car, engine and transmission package???!?! you guys make it sound like building a toy car man. If building cars are so easy, why are they only so few "full" car manufacturers in the world? The engine is useless in its current form. petronas can't do it themselves. thats why they are looking for a partner, and thats why it will still take them a couple of years of R&D, testing etc, before the engine is ready for use in 2009. even then, thats not a gurantee.


dont just say how easy it is to do, at least come up with some sort of "possible" scenario how it can be done.

 

[si|verfish]

zeroed, i'm not skeptical at all,
honda, alfa...etc. these are companies who have been building engines for years, and high performances engines at that, not just your run of the mill types. no one comes out of the woodwork, and starts building super engines for mass production that are reliable, and are low cost. remember, NAC will not be building high-cost performance cars. They will most likely be aiming their cars at the bread and butter crowd (this is where all car companies make money). If its possible for a company with no experience with production cars/engines, and a new car company from china to do that, maybe you could tell me how are they going to go about it... plus that most annoying fact, they actually have to make is commercially viable.

somehow, most of you guys here are not taking all these factors into account. mass production is a whole different animal.

On how a new company can make it work, dump money into it. Buy the technology (which is what they are doing, similar to the other Chinese company buying Rover). Hire the brains. Extrapolate from there on.

Prototypes are always going to be technological showcases to prove what can be done. Of course, it isn't going to go straight into mass production. What you want is the design and the technology from that engine which can be leveraged upon. Much better than scratching your head in the dark by yourself. If someone has the seeds, I'll use them, that's the theory. Sure, it'll cost a lot of money to continue development and make it viable for mass production but it'll definitely cost more (and take longer) if you were to start everything from square one.

Of course, they aren't going to start building 2.0 litre 200bhp engines and sticking it into their cars. Its a platform where lower spec (and cheaper) derivatives can be made. The reports say that the design is viable for 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2 litre derivatives, medium sized family saloon teritory. Proton could use with engines like that. The last time I read, the campro engine design can't stretch that far. If they were to build a Waja replacement or a Perdana replacement, they could use with such an engine, which they don't have and that unfortunately means having to buy it from other people.

A lot of people's gripes with this is that Proton had the opportunity and it looks a good option for them (especially when they seem to have issues developing engines on their own). They could have worked with what Petronas already had. Whether or not they would make a 100bhp per litre road going engine is irrelevant (Honda don't just make type-R engines with their designs ok, they are found in cooking Civics and Accords as well).

 

[wakos]

IMHO, we were convinced by the proton ppl that the price of eo1 engine is really high and proton cant afford it..but the truth is proton have cheat us all, infact they're so stubborn and think they can built their own engine at lower cost..

now proton only got the camprofile-less campro engine that they said still under development over and over again..while this chinese auto manufacturer got a better, tested and proven engine with just a slightly higher cost than developing their own engine..

even two year old can see who's more stupid..cant afford buy technology but at the same time have resources to develop one..if they have taken petronas offer at the first place..i'll bet the facelifted waja can easily kill the new civic in term of power and price while we will expecting perdana replacement model in the 2nd half of next year..neo? can play with golf gti somemore..

my 2 cent only..

agree with u dude...

btw i did see this engine on petronas reseach office few times...looks convincing than campro...haih...

 

[drMpower]

maybe right, and maybe NOT

"There is a reason why I mention this. See... Petronas learned a lot by its involvement in Formula 1. The engine is there. the expertise is there. The missing part is only the chassis and the body. It is as simple as that. snap!"

SOMEONE please tell me how involvement in F1, and having "some" F1 experience helps you build a commercially, and technologically successful car, engine and transmission package???!?! you guys make it sound like building a toy car man. If building cars are so easy, why are they only so few "full" car manufacturers in the world? The engine is useless in its current form. petronas can't do it themselves. thats why they are looking for a partner, and thats why it will still take them a couple of years of R&D, testing etc, before the engine is ready for use in 2009. even then, thats not a gurantee"

yes, i'd agree things are NOT THAT EASY. and my apology if my sarcasm is too much to your liking. but this is POSSIBLE. did i ever mention before that PETRONAS got the loads - technology, money, and manpower? well, as you said - it is not like building toy car. agree. fully aware of that. I am not kidding myself Petronas can easily venture in such territory its not familiar with.

The engine development took several years, right? maybe 5,6 years. Yes it can be done. but it takes time. thats what I'm stressing Petronas should do. Use their loads - technology, money, and manpower (expertise) for that purpose! and it takes time and vision.

For example, if you are giving a go into producing SUPERCAR, than prepare things up in advance. that is what I call VISION. and Tun Mahathir had this vision when he first letting Petronas to involve in Formula One back in the 1990s. And now, everybody talking about EW01. Has anyone ever think Petronas will ever develop one engine, one day? And this SUPERCAR bisnes, VISION is important. I am sure they got all sorted out by now if they ever think of venturing into SUPERCAR in somewhere 2009. If they ever think of it...

If you got the VISION, the DESIRE, then you can go all the way. Yes, there are obstacles there and there but you've got to struggle on. And I said SUPERCAR, meaning either Petronas build a one off working model (just to gain ground on giving trust and believe to prospective buyers) and then concentrate on producing SUPERCARs by orders.

Producing cars commercially? well, thats quite a long way to go. but again, if petronas ever think of it, then, it will takes a lot of time, efforts.

There are two ways of gaining technology and expertise - one is R&D (partnership, merger, etc. etc) and the other is taking over companies like NAC did on Rover. While doing our own R&D will take lots of time/efforts, taking over present car company will give us access to all its departments including QC and R&D. We will be only thinking of how to better things.