Lets discuss Petronas E01

gary said:
zeroed, i'm not skeptical at all,
honda, alfa...etc. these are companies who have been building engines for years, and high performances engines at that, not just your run of the mill types. no one comes out of the woodwork, and starts building super engines for mass production that are reliable, and are low cost. remember, NAC will not be building high-cost performance cars. They will most likely be aiming their cars at the bread and butter crowd (this is where all car companies make money). If its possible for a company with no experience with production cars/engines, and a new car company from china to do that, maybe you could tell me how are they going to go about it... plus that most annoying fact, they actually have to make is commercially viable.

somehow, most of you guys here are not taking all these factors into account. mass production is a whole different animal.

"There is a reason why I mention this. See... Petronas learned a lot by its involvement in Formula 1. The engine is there. the expertise is there. The missing part is only the chassis and the body. It is as simple as that. snap!"

SOMEONE please tell me how involvement in F1, and having "some" F1 experience helps you build a commercially, and technologically successful car, engine and transmission package???!?! you guys make it sound like building a toy car man. If building cars are so easy, why are they only so few "full" car manufacturers in the world? The engine is useless in its current form. petronas can't do it themselves. thats why they are looking for a partner, and thats why it will still take them a couple of years of R&D, testing etc, before the engine is ready for use in 2009. even then, thats not a gurantee.


dont just say how easy it is to do, at least come up with some sort of "possible" scenario how it can be done.
Well no one needs to be building their own engines from zero knowledge. Back then no one knew how to build a good engine. These days good references are everywhere, so much that to build your own engine you only need the resources to hire good brains and hands. Then buy the necessary rights to incorporate certain technology into your engine, on the prototype level atleast. And apparantly it is so with Petronas, since they apparantly hired the help from some Japanese dude and Yamaha?

Infact, what youre saying really contrasts with Proton's (+Lotus) doing of building their own engines. Why not just get someone else to help? Even Toyota gets help from Yamaha to build their high end engines. Building a mediocre engine from scratch is probably going to cost more than having someone with the knowledge to produce a good one for you.

The mass production issue is a quality control problem all firms have to face after producing prototypes, and they do, and they can. Again, we're talking about big companies here, not a small factory who wants to build their own cars. What makes you think that Petronas and Proton cant overcome mass production problems? (Well actually, Proton alone probably cant, they'll need outside management like Petronas)

As I mentioned before, making it commercially viable is the problem that I thought made Proton not want the E-01. So on that point I agree with you. But I maintain that it could have been possible for Proton/Petronas to build a 200hp hotrod. Reliable or no, Im sure that the engineers arent stupid enough to design a 200hp engine that will break with little usage.


You make it seem so hard to produce cars, disregarding that its the big companies and experts who are doing this. :biggrin:
 
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if proton merged in terms of management and technology with other company, its good for them. coz somehow, they cant " buat suka hati".... thus the production would be better...
 
Info on heading of E01e

Guys, if you have the time, here's a bit of info garnered.. status, so to speak

(Just extracts..info obtained from internal newsletter, but safe for public consumption I guess)

"PETRONAS signed a Memorandum of Intent (MOI) with national carmaker Proton Holdings Berhad to jointly explore the possibility of using PETRONAS' E01 engine technology for the carmaker's vehicle line-up.
Under the MOI, PETRONAS and Proton will also look at the possibility of developing environmentally friendly NGV fuel systems for Proton (so forget your 200hp, etc. lah).

Syed Zainal (MD of Proton) said the collaboration would allow Proton to possibly introduce a larger engine capacity of between 1.8 and 2.2 litres in an environmentally-friendly vehicle in Proton's future cars.
The two-litre PETRONAS E01 engine is one of the results of PETRONAS' involvement in Formula One which provides it with the opportunity to engage in value-added automotive engineering R&D.
The engine technology is currently being further developed and assessed for possible use by China's carmaker Nanjing Automobile Corporation."


Hah... so that's that.
 
Just little bits of interesting info, heh.

Toyota used Yamaha to help produce their 2ZZGTE (Celica GTS 180bhp engine). Why? Here's my hypothesis. Super bike technology (Yamaha) is far more advanced than everyday car technology. Think a super bike engine and you're thinking titanium valve seats, valve springs and conrods, basically the works. If you read about the B18C5R engine on wikipedia, you'll find out that almost all of Honda's high end VTECs use titanium in many of their parts as a result of both F1 and their venture into super bikes. This would explain how some super bikes have 200hp on an engine that doesn't have 4 cylinders (Obviously they are torqueless bastards.)

Ok on to the other stuff before i forget.

Lotus as a car company has not made an engine for a looooooong time. Not since the days of Colin Chapman and even then i can't remember whether i have ever heard of a popular engine Lotus made.

Lotus used Cosworth (Or at times Honda) engines in both F1 and in their sports cars (No Honda engines here :P) like the Lotus Espirit and if i am not mistaken also in the Elise GT1.

Lotus used Rover 1.8L 150bhp engines to power their road going Elises for the longest time until Lotus built the exige which now uses the 2ZZGTE Toyota VVTI engine. Interesting stuff, no?

Getting to the point of what i was getting at with co-Lotus-Proton development, if Lotus hasn't made an engine for eons (EON get it hahaha) and Proton ... Well enough said ... It's hardly a wonder why the Campro is at best a normal beat around to get around engine.

Although on another interesting side note i have been told by a reliable source that there does exist a Campro engine with close to or over 200bhp and its still a 1.6L. But whether it was co-developed with Lotus i am not sure, i still doubt it until someone slaps me around a bit ;)
 
HMMM....
both are at fault i think...
one party seek for cooperation, another party rejects... n vice versa...

if they were in that business together, i will certainly dump the honda n b the pride owner of a fawking moderately fast malaysian car...


hmmm...the probability n the usual question that all the chick's will asked;

gal - "what car do u drive?"
guy - "well... a PROTON EOW1"..
gal - "geeezzz.... u mean the proton n petronas collaboration thingy??
thats a fast ride, can i take a ride with u n take me home?"...
guy - "yeah sure"... = )


hahaha... its a possible sentence...

*damn it proton.. ego!
 
deacon said:
Although on another interesting side note i have been told by a reliable source that there does exist a Campro engine with close to or over 200bhp and its still a 1.6L. But whether it was co-developed with Lotus i am not sure, i still doubt it until someone slaps me around a bit ;)
That's the R3 race spec engine you are talking about (like real racing). Confirmed by an R3 bloke in this very forum as well. Expensive and built on request by rich mofos who wish to go racing with something that uses a 1.6 Campro engine, I suppose.
 
drMpower said:
"There is a reason why I mention this. See... Petronas learned a lot by its involvement in Formula 1. The engine is there. the expertise is there. The missing part is only the chassis and the body. It is as simple as that. snap!"
drMpower said:
SOMEONE please tell me how involvement in F1, and having "some" F1 experience helps you build a commercially, and technologically successful car, engine and transmission package???!?! you guys make it sound like building a toy car man. If building cars are so easy, why are they only so few "full" car manufacturers in the world? The engine is useless in its current form. petronas can't do it themselves. thats why they are looking for a partner, and thats why it will still take them a couple of years of R&D, testing etc, before the engine is ready for use in 2009. even then, thats not a gurantee"

yes, i'd agree things are NOT THAT EASY. and my apology if my sarcasm is too much to your liking. but this is POSSIBLE. did i ever mention before that PETRONAS got the loads - technology, money, and manpower? well, as you said - it is not like building toy car. agree. fully aware of that. I am not kidding myself Petronas can easily venture in such territory its not familiar with.

The engine development took several years, right? maybe 5,6 years. Yes it can be done. but it takes time. thats what I'm stressing Petronas should do. Use their loads - technology, money, and manpower (expertise) for that purpose! and it takes time and vision.

For example, if you are giving a go into producing SUPERCAR, than prepare things up in advance. that is what I call VISION. and Tun Mahathir had this vision when he first letting Petronas to involve in Formula One back in the 1990s. And now, everybody talking about EW01. Has anyone ever think Petronas will ever develop one engine, one day? And this SUPERCAR bisnes, VISION is important. I am sure they got all sorted out by now if they ever think of venturing into SUPERCAR in somewhere 2009. If they ever think of it...

If you got the VISION, the DESIRE, then you can go all the way. Yes, there are obstacles there and there but you've got to struggle on. And I said SUPERCAR, meaning either Petronas build a one off working model (just to gain ground on giving trust and believe to prospective buyers) and then concentrate on producing SUPERCARs by orders.

Producing cars commercially? well, thats quite a long way to go. but again, if petronas ever think of it, then, it will takes a lot of time, efforts.

There are two ways of gaining technology and expertise - one is R&D (partnership, merger, etc. etc) and the other is taking over companies like NAC did on Rover. While doing our own R&D will take lots of time/efforts, taking over present car company will give us access to all its departments including QC and R&D. We will be only thinking of how to better things.


Dude,
ur damn right... hmmm...
the xplanation supports everything..

wow... it feels like a political debate now.. exciting to read all the comments.. worth it thou..
 
deacon said:
Just little bits of interesting info, heh.

Toyota used Yamaha to help produce their 2ZZGTE (Celica GTS 180bhp engine). Why? Here's my hypothesis. Super bike technology (Yamaha) is far more advanced than everyday car technology. Think a super bike engine and you're thinking titanium valve seats, valve springs and conrods, basically the works. If you read about the B18C5R engine on wikipedia, you'll find out that almost all of Honda's high end VTECs use titanium in many of their parts as a result of both F1 and their venture into super bikes. This would explain how some super bikes have 200hp on an engine that doesn't have 4 cylinders (Obviously they are torqueless bastards.)

Ok on to the other stuff before i forget.

Lotus as a car company has not made an engine for a looooooong time. Not since the days of Colin Chapman and even then i can't remember whether i have ever heard of a popular engine Lotus made.

Lotus used Cosworth (Or at times Honda) engines in both F1 and in their sports cars (No Honda engines here :P) like the Lotus Espirit and if i am not mistaken also in the Elise GT1.

Lotus used Rover 1.8L 150bhp engines to power their road going Elises for the longest time until Lotus built the exige which now uses the 2ZZGTE Toyota VVTI engine. Interesting stuff, no?

Getting to the point of what i was getting at with co-Lotus-Proton development, if Lotus hasn't made an engine for eons (EON get it hahaha) and Proton ... Well enough said ... It's hardly a wonder why the Campro is at best a normal beat around to get around engine.

Although on another interesting side note i have been told by a reliable source that there does exist a Campro engine with close to or over 200bhp and its still a 1.6L. But whether it was co-developed with Lotus i am not sure, i still doubt it until someone slaps me around a bit ;)


base on my puny knowledge....lotus only built their own engine for their early road going car, ie. lotus elan and the esprit (not the V8 version)..and they use cosworth engine most of the time during their f1 and indy500 period..and they are famous for building car with superb handling characteristic; elise, exige, elan (inspiration for mazda mx-5)..n most of u guys know how they can turn those horrible lada into a superb car..

bro deacon here gave a good info on the effect of involvement in f1 and superbike to current engine technology..and why why why proton did not take advantage on petronas involvement in f1, and not to forget in superbike (foggy fp1 is one heck of a bike), and touring car championship (british n south africa series)..

if only proton did collaborate with petronas, everyone will do the same as bro kriminalz ..no more type R, wiralution, its proton eo 1 now..somemore, lotus can get some benefits too..instead of sourcing engine from other company, they can use their parent company's engine and even tweak with it a lil bit..can save a lil bit in terms of royalty and bring more money to proton..
 
I am pretty confident that if you wikipedia'd the lotus cars they used cosworth ford engines to power at least the espirit v8 twin turbo :D
 
so, is there anyway that Petronas can plonk in an e01e into my Waja for a good price? What gearbox are they using? It's the only 200bhp NA engine available for the Waja now, so where else can I look?

I've seen the pics of the engine in the Waja, looks good.
I don't mind being a guinea pig for them, testing everyday usage and giving reports every week. :)
 
Petronas-E01e.jpg


what do you guys think?
 
I think it is one of the best looking 4 cylinder engine ever. No no, i think it is the best looking engine
 
best looking 4-cyl?.. maybe... but best looking engine? definately not. Seen any Alfa Romeo GTA engines lately?
 
hmm... no wonder why Tun was upset when MV Agusta was sold.
A vision to transfer motorbike technology into proton cars

Just my 0.05cent
 
the engine looks delicious.. at least does not need to use engine covers like recent proton engines..
 
The engine looks like damn sleek.

I don't think Cagiva have been in racing for a long time but nonetheless transferring of technology can be there. But they do need a block manufacturer instead of using old mitsubishi designs or what not, i think - expensive
 
DLegend said:
best looking 4-cyl?.. maybe... but best looking engine? definately not. Seen any Alfa Romeo GTA engines lately?

I mean best looking 4 cylinder
 
i like the bling bling 4 header pipes sticking out.... damn nice la....

but petronas E01 is 2.0L.... jpj dun approve adi unless ur car is perdana.... can buy also cannot approve....
 

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