Force Induction : Any Options for 4AGs?

[synchron]

TO4E is not really expensive, they cost much cheaper than the aftermarket s/c.

Cant answer u much in cams stuff. I have seen unbelievable stuff dont by those cams. I have see 264 degree camshafts go more than 9k RPM. I have also seen 256 degree cams does the same thing as the 264 and 272 can do.

I think if you have a standalone computer you will need to set the setting yourself.

Remember again what u want to do with the engine and the car.

You will need to make up ur mind.

Drag racing, track, drifting, or street racing?

 

[-e f i n i-]

Planning to use them for drifting...
Eh E&E Freedom ECU is fuzzy logic? but pretty expensive....

 

[synchron]

If u are doing drifting then you should a highly mod N/A, s/c or low boost turbo.

Not too sure about the Freedom ecu. Never used it before, may be you can try to contact Trial tunning. I know they have used and install alot of freedom ecu.

 

[-e f i n i-]

low boost turbo ar...
1.2bar low enough? ^_^
im not thinking of high boost actualy, cuz im very scared of the 4AGE innards.

 

[synchron]

1.2 bar is a little over kill, to my oppinion. I think anything less than 1 bar should be alright. You would need the quick respond of the engine.

 

[-e f i n i-]

Hmm even 1.2bar or so using a small 300HP rated turbine like HKS GT2510, the still wouldnt be that good?
But i know smaller turbines like this is better kept running under low boost and RPM levels.

 

[synchron]

when u are drifting the, i think u need a super fast respond engine right?

Not too sure about ball bearing turbo either. I heard they are not build for high boost.

That is all i know.

 

[LevinTE27]

0.5 bar is about low and enough for street use 4ag, 1bar is too much the engine will not last. over tat u need at lest a standalone ecu if not u will ready to rebuilt ur engine later.
when ppl talk about 20-30psi actually only pulling on short distance. if u pull all the way 20-30psi at high way i dun think u able to reach the end.

low boost turbo ar...
1.2bar low enough? ^_^
im not thinking of high boost actualy, cuz im very scared of the 4AGE innards.

 

[synchron]

Listen to the Johnnie advise man. He is a pro when it comes to turbo.


Congratulation Johnnie on ur success debut in the Miri drag race.

 

[ryuichi]

synchron,
Interested in adding supercharger to 20v svt. For street use n sometimes for drag. Aiming for bout 200 - 220 whp. Plan to use centrifugal s/c w/o ic. A few questions, hope u can help me on that.

1. Beside changing the piston, crankshaft n valve, what other would u recommend to do as well.

2. Would oe svt ecu able to manage it?

3. Boosting? 0.6 to 0.9 bar?

 

[synchron]

I never had the idea of having s/c for 20v engines. The head are pretty unreliable for FI works. That is my oppinion, you would need to do alot of stuff to get the engine FI.

The second stuff is that you will need to have custom intake manifold and also the bypass valve installed. The ITB will not much of a improvement to it. I think it might cause some idling problem.

Getting 200-220hp is not really hard if you are using FI. I have heard alot people in Kuching are using 20v turbo, but i still can figure out how they did a perfect job. May be you can consult them and see.

 

[ryuichi]

okie..... in ur opinion what things needed in supercharger for 20v engine...?
The head is unrealiable for FI? I dun get what u meant...? Sorry, kinda slow here.....
As for FI, i prefer s/c for its spontaneous n predicatable power delivery....

 

[-e f i n i-]

Hmm 20V head valve stem too thin or so i was told haha...
Erm guys, it would be okay if i use the 16V AE101 4AGZE then switch it to AE92 AFM internals right?
From my source, 87-89' 4AGZE used on AW11/AE92 is big port non TVIS right? Since big port is better for FI, would it be a better set up to use the that 4AGZE from AW11 instead of the AE101 4AGZE? Since it has lower compression pistons that allow for high boost applications and a better flowing head?
I was also told that all the 4AGs are the same engine, its just that Toyota added some better parts to replace the inferior ones in the newer 4AGs, thats why we have a newer 4AG that produces more power than its previous generation 4AG?
But surely the ceramic coated AE101 piston would be better in terms of durability right? But the other AFM ones can take higher boost but only semi forged.

 

[rollakid]

get the late version ae92 s/c 4ag, ae101's internal i heard is lightened and not as strong as ae92, they are both 8.9:1 compresion ratio. the later block also have oil squirters and somewhat better overall compare to the old 8.0:1 compresion ratio gze.

i've seen 9:1 comp ratio engine boosting 1bar no problem whatsoever. so 8.9:1 i think is the best choice for street/drift. 8.0:1 you need higher boost, and because of that and the lower comp ratio, you lost out in respond time, i bet that you won't like it.

i think what the sifu-sifu said is right, over 1 bar is abit overkill for road use already, even for drift. you have to remember that the car you want is only about 800kg after you lighten it. 0.9 bar is enough for you to go 200hp+, 800kg lightened car and thats 250hp/ton!! thats LanEvo standard >_< (but yalar evo's torque way higher).

and higher boost generally engine need to be serviced more often. remember the 400bhp evo featured in top gear? heard that it needs major service every 20000miles, normal engine go way longer than that if taken care properly.

 

[synchron]

This is what i have in mind for base on my ideas 20v s/c:-

1) Low comp pistons
2) bigger injectors
3) Piggyback or standalone
3) stronger valve if possible
4) custom intake manifold
5) Custom brackets
6) Custom pipings
7) Bypass valves

This is why i think the later 4agze are stronger than the older 4agze:-

1) MAP & AFM system, MAP system got less restriction
2) MAP & AFM pistons, MAP got 8.9:1 comp ratio & AFM got 8.0:1.
3) MAP & AFM ECU, MAP system is much simple.
4) MAP & AFM Fuel, MAP Fuel delivery system is also different.
5) MAP & AFM Ignition, MAP ignition much more stronger faster.

The other reasons will be the same as rollakid.

There is no such thing as the semi forged. There is only 2 type of piston manufacturing way, cast and forged. The normal pistons is made out of casting and the material used Eutectics. 4agze pistons is also cast but they have a different material Hypereutectics. Hypereutectics pistons has more silicon content which make the piston stronger. Both MAP and AFM pistons are coated.

Why alot of performance engine uses the AFM pistons:-

1) Design of the AFM pistons is much stronger than the MAP ones
2) AFM piston wall are thicker than the MAP ones.
3) AFM pistons has lower compression than the MAP ones.
4) More valve clearance on the AFM pistons than the MAP ones.

I have seen alot of MAP piston fail when they are boost over 1 bar. I have yet to see a AFM pistons even they are boost till 2 bar.

When you use the high comp piston boosting over 1 bar, fuelling is a very important and the engine will feel slugish in the end of mid till top range.

 

[rollakid]

simon, too bad last time no chance sit in terence's 20v turbo, he is running 8.0:1 comp ratio i think, i dunno the performance lar cuz never tried sitting in it but edmund say that the power only comes after 5k rpm? do you want that in your car? sure you can run smaller turbo but then you run smaller boost also that means why not just get 8.9:1 comp ratio and get better low end respond when the boost didn't kick in?

just my 2 cent lar...

 

[-e f i n i-]

Hmm after reading you guys' inputs, i think i'd just go with the MAP pistons and some cheap turbo and boost it to 0.8-1bar only. In life, we must learn not to be good greedy.
Im only targetting 200-250HP... might lower it due to financial difficulties since my parents surely will not be supporting me in this hobby.
For pistons, is there a limit to the amount of power it can take, like crankshaft? or is a piston's strength judged by its ability to take boost only?

Hmm more block ribs = stronger? cuz the later 4AGZE also have more block ribs..

oh yeah....
can we use the early AW11 4AGZE big port head on the AE101 4AGZE block, but still keep the MAP setup?