double welding.. against JPJ law?

[zephyr3d]

illegal? hmm... i must have gotten lucky on that day.

 

[cypress8]

Just wondering...does proton provide double welding services for the old proton cars?

 

[DJ-LanEvo3]

Just wondering...does proton provide double welding services for the old proton cars?

Thatt's very good Question Cypress8...

I've checked out where I supposed to weld bit..

It's ..... arr.. how to explain this in words.. haha.. ^^;;

hm.. those connected ...... hm..... hm..... those

connected lines.. overlapped lines.... Aiyo... ^^;;;

 

[artraider]

how bout put sum pictures..

a picture worth a thousand words ( a hundred pic? a million words? hehe)

 

[geukai]

Just wondering...does proton provide double welding services for the old proton cars?

Just came across this topic which is kinda interesting. Back to cypress8 question, does EON provides this service?

 

[zan]

i second Prodigy...only factory double weld is legal - and that's what makes the SR3 so special!. it being limited edition too!

 

[Joeker]

If not mistaken, the main reason double weld is illegal is because JPJ is concern about "kereta sambung"

I think the second reason is crumple zone.

When the car impacts a non moving object, the momentum is absorbed by the chasis's crumple zone.

WHen it is fully stitch weld, all that momentum is transfered into the cabin. Increasing the risk of injury to the occupants.

JPJ does allow stich welding as mentioned earlier on the Satria R3 (and the FIA homo. Wira) but the main problem is guidelines.

As usual JPJ does not lay clear the specifications wat can or cannot be done.

"A-YAM TE-LUR"

 

[prodigy]

Wow, this post is like a year old. I've even forgotten typing those stuff.

Anyway, what Joeker said is true. When you start to double weld your whole car chasis, the rigidity increased and true enough you have added handling but you're sacrificing safety to a certain extent.

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

proton cars already has crumple zone mah... they crumple to the max during accident... become tin sardin.... especially iswara.... 100kmh crash, the car crumple till back seat.... ><

 

[am_izham]

isn't it's already written in the RTD regulations that any modification to the chassis must be done with a proper engineering plans and everything. like what the boys of R3 did, they present the cars complete with the plans, drawings, and make a written explaination of what they did and why they think it's good.

so if you can provide all this my best guess is that RTD will approve the mods done to your car.

BTW this is just my guess. i don't know shit about this. someone correct me please if i'm wrong.

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

not sure though.,..

anyway it is, i also wanna do welding at my right absorber mounting there... the place where i welded my UR bar to it bend a little already....

 

[prodigy]

proton cars already has crumple zone mah... they crumple to the max during accident... become tin sardin.... especially iswara.... 100kmh crash, the car crumple till back seat.... >quote]

The Iswara is a really old car in general. The technology used on that and on newer cars is like heaven and earth so its no surprise the car crumpled like a sardine tin.

Newer cars are definitely alot safer, be it Savvy, Gen 2 or Neo. Now, even the Smart cars are so safe as they've gotten some pretty good ratings in the NCAP testing.

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

The Iswara is a really old car in general. The technology used on that and on newer cars is like heaven and earth so its no surprise the car crumpled like a sardine tin.

Newer cars are definitely alot safer, be it Savvy, Gen 2 or Neo. Now, even the Smart cars are so safe as they've gotten some pretty good ratings in the NCAP testing.

and proton are still producing it as a new car....
bravo proton.... 80s generation car treated as new car.....

 

[prodigy]

Its not that they're producing it everyday. I think at the moment they are only clearing old stock cars. I pass by the Proton factory every single working day and i must say the Iswara is a pretty slow selling car. There's also a warehouse very near to my office and there's an overload of Iswara's.

 

[bridgestoneRE711]

actually , it is not really recommended to weld it by yourself . even the factory 2welding , they are for certain parts only , some othe rparts has to be allowed to be flex to a certain angle ... it is like ... u cannot over strenghten the parts.
as u can see, evo8 has 280-300 more welding points than lancer , it is celected points , not simply hantam any point .

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

icic... means must do lotsa R&D to do spot/seam welding la....

 

[bridgestoneRE711]

ya ...
something like that.
the way u weld it , u must make sure that it is only specific area . at the same time , when u strenghten the engine bay , u have to make sure it wont over strengthen it more that the other parts , or else u the car will bend at other places .
i have seen a fellwo put struts , lower ARM , fornt struts, fender bar , the outcome is the car chassis misallighed . i am not sure on how come it is so serious ,the frontal portion of the car has to be softer , those soft points has to be soft , and the hard critical points has to be hard , that is the way . this fellow modified until the soft place almost hard . in the end, the car frame , the SIDE frame the one which flows from the front a-pillar to the roof down to the c-pillar , that place bend and misalligned . it was a WisE wira . it could be the struts diverts all the forces on the side chassis ,if not mistaken there is a middle,and the middle bar is conected side by side from the interior , the undercarriage bar also diverts by joining it front side by side , then front strut , now the forces all goes to the side ,there is fender bar as well . now all the forces goes to the side ...
in factory , they have make sure that the pillars , ABC to be very strong , so that it can withstand the forces and keep the passenger cell intact in case of a crash .
as for welding , it has to be carfully engineered . the engineernig of the chasiss which requires CAD to do will let u see which critical point to be strengthen , when u strengthen it , u need to have another few strengten point to counter the side effect ... in the end , lots of work has to be done , no a simply WELD job . of course u can do this in small work which is ok . i have a frined who welded certain points on his waja, in the car which makes the car more stable , not double weld whole welding point . if u really welded the whole front portion , in case of a crash , it wont be wonderful , maybe whole chassis will misallign . in cornering too , maybe the front engine portion will misallign because the force will be circulating inside the chassis .
my brother's frined who previously worked at proton , now working for EDAG , the company which desinged and engineered proton waja , their job is using the CAD and use the engineering data from the manufacture such as BMW and AUDI ... then use CAD to crash it , from there , they have to see which parts will bend, will that place crumple or bend exceed their requirement , then send back the data for the manufacture .
in automotive firm , every single calculations takes into consideration .

simplest way is liek this , u replace the stiff suspension with a metal rod , and take corners ... ur car chassis sure habis one .

 

[KeV-TEC]

Best solution : ask JPJ & Puspakom direct. Don't listen to hearsay ... could be true could be inaccurate could be wrong

i think this is d best choice la...
after tested... then no worry liaw

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

i have seen a fellwo put struts , lower ARM , fornt struts, fender bar , the outcome is the car chassis misallighed . i am not sure on how come it is so serious ,the frontal portion of the car has to be softer , those soft points has to be soft , and the hard critical points has to be hard , that is the way . this fellow modified until the soft place almost hard . in the end, the car frame , the SIDE frame the one which flows from the front a-pillar to the roof down to the c-pillar , that place bend and misalligned . it was a WisE wira . it could be the struts diverts all the forces on the side chassis ,if not mistaken there is a middle,and the middle bar is conected side by side from the interior , the undercarriage bar also diverts by joining it front side by side , then front strut , now the forces all goes to the side ,there is fender bar as well . now all the forces goes to the side ...

simplest way is liek this , u replace the stiff suspension with a metal rod , and take corners ... ur car chassis sure habis one .

true true... dont overstrengthen ur chassis... coz chassis do absorb some of the shocks and vibrations...
the other day i removed my 3point strutbar and found that my car actually feels more comfortable at bumpy roads.... abit more chassis flex means my suspension doesnt need to take in all the shocks... (my suspension is stiff)... but of coz, removing the strutbar, my handling decreased abit la... coz got chassis flex liao...

so in short, soft chassis better pair with soft suspension... if not, chassis sure cialat....

chassis strengthening also need to do step by step lo... refer here, got some tips regarding chassis strengthening..
http://www.jdm-option.com/eng/feature/05_10/bodyup.html

 

[bridgestoneRE711]

yeap .
by the way , those engineers in proton know about the flexes , same goes to the other ... there is always some 'kelonggaran' for the chassis flex , due to cost and machine , the car will flex . if they want stiff chassis, they use better grade of steel(savvy is using) and use double welding or Z-welding ....