BOT (Bolt On Turbo)

[junior]

8K is stretching my budget..was onli thinking in the 2-3K range
Wat if i buy a kit from Mudah.com and install it ?

 

[kancilkoo]

Guys, some quick question -
Super-charge, turbo-charge & BOLT..are they all the same thing or different stories altogether?
I hv a 1.6 Gen 2 for which i wan to increase the power a bit more but dun wan to kacau the engine too much.

the supercharge, turbocharge are induction system..
bolt on turbo aka BOT is an alternative to bolt turbo on a NA cars..
but inspite of improved hp, there are also disadvantages..

the supercharge uses only compressor powered by crankshaft via belting..
but the turbocharger powered by exhaust gas..
frankly, supercharge more effective in lower boost..
but it requires frequent service

 

[fastlearner]

Just remember this,

Cheap & reliable wont be fast,
Fast & cheap wont be reliable,
Reliable & fast wont be cheap.

With the amount of fake items in the market now, its really risky to just go for the cheapest item u can get... 8k is CHEAP for a full BOT kit

 

[speed2horizon]

guys, need some help with turbocharging my humble 4g91 engine!!!

Another BOTer on the road soon.

haha bro! 0.4 bar only? what if i use 1.5mm metal gasket? use ron97, hmmmm cannot go further?

Ther difference is there. On WOT, 0bar increment to 0.4bar. That's a lot. If u're going for more, i suggest u to go for 1.8mm metal gasket. Just 0.8-1mm thickness increment compare to stock gasket.

Like that sure can la bro... 1.5 mm metal gasket, change injectors, piggyback...

But what my friend did is just to save cost. But I tell you the difference is also very big even though boost 0.4! From NA u go to boost 0.4 you feel like orgasm. I mean... his setup is just to do it at minimal cost and time. No need to do internal mods. and it won;t hurt FC too much too. Might even improve FC. Why not you try light boost first? Even if you are not satisfied, you can always up the boost in the future and use back all the components that you have already.

Agreed. But patience is something that no everyone has...

sure can do it.
i have this exp..

BOT at 4g91
first
td04l
bov
240cc injector
volvo fuel pump
eterna intercooler
running for 0.7 boost

than mod to
390cc injector
vr4 intercooler
adjustable fuel regulator
safc 5 button
boost 0.8
get 183.6 hp on crank

last
metal gasket 1.5mm
emanage
boost 1.0
get 201.3 hp

pisten still 4g91

Haha... still on TD04L..? Not bad huh... But i think if u've experience a slightly bigger turbo, like TD04HL and TD05 14B with 6cm2 turbine housing, having lower boost and tuned to achieve same HP, U'll understand that ur turbo is coming to the limit...

now that's a TRUE bot. no high boost, no excessive engine work. keep it @ 0.4, and that's it.


but prob comes when yur car kena tiu on the road, back home you got impatient itchy fingers and usik2 that wastegate actuator, while keep whispering to yurself "alaa, 0.6 bar oni, what cud go wrong?"

and there you go. patience is a virtue, lads! :stupid:

Anything and everything could without proper retune after boost increment... Haha... U gotta point brader...

Haha true bro.. I heard that people who go into forced induction are always prone to not being satisfied at one level... After some time, they will "kacau kacau" and try to up here and there... Think that 0.1 increment is little... up little by little without reworking the internals.... Until one day kaboom.... Haha...

Reworking internals aren't necessary, but retune is... On WOT, the O2 feedback will be deactivated... So, retune is necessary.

ahha bro, so means right now. my current mod for na is quite little.. hmm i just changed to 4g93 injectors + manifold. so for injectors okay d rite? and im also using an external fuel pump, so do i have to change metal gasket first before i really bot? or stock gasket can tahan the boost pressure? internals will be fine if i go low like 0.5bar boost? need some help here. hahaha itchy hands... patience patience..

Enough or not, have to ask u... Not us... 210cc injectors are actually quite small. External fuel pump is actually something extra... Doh 9 yu...

It's not the gaskets are won't last. And thicker gasket does not mean stronger... 4G93T and 4G63T have OEM carbon gasket. But 4G63T have 270bhp... So, can tahan or not..?

Bare that in mind. Gasket thickness is just a cheap way to adjust the compression ratio of ur engine.

If u gonna install 1.5mm metal gasket before ur BOT, u're gonna experience dramatic torque and power drop due to low compression ratio. 4G91 already have CR low enough...

Guys, some quick question -
Super-charge, turbo-charge & BOLT..are they all the same thing or different stories altogether?
I hv a 1.6 Gen 2 for which i wan to increase the power a bit more but dun wan to kacau the engine too much.

Without kacau the engine too much, but want power... Then go for extractors and exhaust upgrade... Once u've deep ur head into the forced induction, it's never simple to retract... And just if u're not lucky enough to have some conman by ur side claiming everything can, there'w where the problem comes...

Just some pre introduction to ur engine... Gen2 require expensive management to play around with in order to make it stable.

superchanger is an airpump using belting rotate from engine pulley
turbocharger is an airpump using pressure from exhaust gas

both pumping more air into engine thus making more power...

BOLT was (screw) haha...term Bolt-On turbo/supercharger is when the turbo or supercharger was ready to install without any engine internal modification to do....(more like plug n play)-but the reason plug n play term can't be used because u need to tune the electronic to make turbo/supercharge to work in harmony with the engine to make a good use of it...

Good explanation...

Basicly, Bolt is when u install Super/Turbo-charger with kacau-ing the engine so much laa..
Do i need to change my EPU ? Tune only or got any slight modification to the piston ring,etc ?

Why modify the piston rings..? Any theory..?

still using 4G91 ecu code 5060.
using the ron97 and sometimes ron95 coz no ron97 at petrol station
for the tuning time using the ron97
and FC woth the full tank iswara i get 450km + -

---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------



if can change the intake manifold to GSR one is batter.
more respone next

---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:04 PM ----------



how he control the boost at 0.4?

Since u're not going to be consistent with ur fuel octane number, I'll suggest u to tune it with RON95... Let say ur tuner gonna tune it to the highest possible output... If u tune it with RON95, and run RON97, U'll be much safer than the condition being tuned. But if U gonna tune it with RON97 and Run it with RON95, U might experience premature detonation... And maybe a kaboom if the day is hot...

I've alwez got 4++KM with my Satria tank on RON 97. Even achieve 538KM on daily cheras-rawang basis...

Changing intake manifold without porting up the inlet port is not going to do anything good. Perhaps, the sudden conttraction of the flow area will even reduce the flow efficiency. Though not alot, but notice on dyno graph.. But, if u've seen the GSR head, U'll understand that no matter how much u port on the 4G91 head, u'll never be able to achieve the same size as GSR's. It's totally 2 different sand core Mitsubishi has used during the production stage.

well...depend on the power level of your target....

normally bolt on kit contain several stage(with different power level)

stage1 :15%-30% power increase

stage2 : maybe up to 50% power increase

stage3 : maybe can go as high as 100% power increase (double from stock)


and normally stage3 is a full tuned engine (fully modified) and definately not a bolt-on job anymore
back to stage1....normally there's no need to change engine part or ecu (safe boost @ 0.3bar-0.5bar maximum) just require ecu tuning (re-chip or reprogram) or piggyback device to handle the extra job....but sometimes ppl just want to be on the safe side and just prepare for further upgrade...they change thicker head gasket along with stronger piston and conrod so when the time they felt they need to increase the power,they can simply increase the boost and re-tune back...a quick job to increase power for the future plan....


well that's my opinion...open to others for their opinion also....

Stages of mods are self determined on budget... Those stages are also some package offered by some shop to simplify ur selection according to ur needs.

To my humble opinion and my shallow knowledge, Internal will be safe with proper tuning.... I've seen loads of melted forged pistons and loads of 300WHP with stock internals GSRs... It all depends on the tuning. Strong pistons and strong conrods(forged, ceramic coated) can take more abuse from premature detonation. But it doesn't mean they are indestructible.

Think it the other way round, what if u're not applying any abuse on the internals.

I'd say management is the heart/brain of ur engine... Strong muscle or wise brain... U do the choosing...

Think i'll go wit Stage 1 for d moment laa..dun wan to rush into this thing.
Where can i get the kits ? Kakimotor, etc..go to any performance shop?

Go look around in ZTH. They have this quite interesting package of the once offered EON BOT kit with new garrett T25 turbo complete with plug n play EMS and full kit. All u need to do is to get it installed.

I think they provide installation too...

Here is their link:
4G9X BOT kit

Oppss... U're 15 days late... But it used to be RM3999.00

Checked out Speedworks website just now.
AXT Turbo Kit complete with ECU, exhaust system & K&N Air Filter RM8,000.00

Is this wat v r talking abt ?
Wat abt u ? Wat did u do to yr car ?

8K is stretching my budget..was onli thinking in the 2-3K range
Wat if i buy a kit from Mudah.com and install it ?

Lolz... Not to dissapoint u... Imagination is alway cool, But reality is sometime cruel... Let's do the calculation.

Cheapest around market...

1- TD04L-RM350
2- Exhaust Manifold-RM100
3- Injectors 275cc(6A12tt or 4G64)-RM200
4- BOV used - RM350
5- Intercooler with piping - RM250(GSR)
6- Downpipe modification - RM150
7- SAFC 5 button - RMRM350
8- Modification on oil sump for turbo return - RM80
9- Boost meter(Auto gauge) -RM200
10- Metal head gasket 1.5 - RM200
11- Installation - ???
12- Hidden cost - Insufficient hose clips, T for the oil feed line, hoses for boost meter and BOV, tuning up and down, left and right, and the list goes on...

Without item 11, 12, it's already RM2230. And I'm dead sure that those 2 items will cost u more than RM1k..

Haha....

the supercharge, turbocharge are induction system..
bolt on turbo aka BOT is an alternative to bolt turbo on a NA cars..
but inspite of improved hp, there are also disadvantages..

the supercharge uses only compressor powered by crankshaft via belting..
but the turbocharger powered by exhaust gas..
frankly, supercharge more effective in lower boost..
but it requires frequent service

Supercharging is never more effective in producing power compare to turbocharging... Let's see it this way.

Turbocharging - Recycle waste to produce more.
Supercharging - Sacrificing to produce.

But what supercharge is actually producing is the low end torque and power as they does not require effective operating pressure to start producing power... Just a magnetic clutch to kick in whenever u like... Just like VTECS... haha... funz....

Servicing depends on how the supercharge oil feed and return is installed. If they are installed together with the same engine oil reservoir, then no separate service required. But if u install a separate cooler and reservoir for the SC, then separate oil change required. But both have pro and cons...

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

Maaaaai. Reply so long haha eyes sakit dah.

Sorry to jump in to this thread, BOT-ing carbs, how complicated is it compared to EFi? Anyone here can help me?

Thanks in advance sifus

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

Maaaaai. Reply so long haha eyes sakit dah.

Sorry to jump in to this thread, BOT-ing carbs, how complicated is it compared to EFi? Anyone here can help me?

Thanks in advance sifus

installation wasn't really complicated sir..

TUNING was the main problem...while u can alter fuel/air mixture of EFI with a simple keyboard play....u have to dismantle the carb and change jetting EVERYTIME u want to make change of fuel/air mixture combination...

certainly....a suction type (carb infront of compressor intake side) wasn't really reliable even this configuration was easier to tune....

i've done it on a few type of bikes....but that was for fun and testing purpose.....not reliable for daily use...(still i insist u to go for EFI type to BOT)

 

[speed2horizon]

Maaaaai. Reply so long haha eyes sakit dah.

Sorry to jump in to this thread, BOT-ing carbs, how complicated is it compared to EFi? Anyone here can help me?

Thanks in advance sifus

Wei... LWW, ur avatar very lansi oh... BOT CARB, normally can be done. But the jarum part is the hard part. Tune to get top end, u'll get rich low end. Get the low end U'll get lean top end.

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

Wei... LWW, ur avatar very lansi oh... BOT CARB, normally can be done. But the jarum part is the hard part. Tune to get top end, u'll get rich low end. Get the low end U'll get lean top end.

maybe can use single injector controller to be the additional fuel enricher when going high-rpm and high boost..(that would kelp reducing carb tuning time and hassle i think)

 

[speed2horizon]

maybe can use single injector controller to be the additional fuel enricher when going high-rpm and high boost..(that would kelp reducing carb tuning time and hassle i think)

But... But where do u get the TPS signal from..? Fuel..? For ECI injectors, U'll need higher fuel pump pressure...

Kekeke....

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

But... But where do u get the TPS signal from..? Fuel..? For ECI injectors, U'll need higher fuel pump pressure...

Kekeke....

well..TPS was just a mere adjustable "reostat"/variable resistor...as long as u can hook it up to the throttle linkage..it should be easy to work with....fuel pump definately have to run separately from the one that feeding the card tough...


well...in my opinion it was a possible job to do....mods need patient and research to start...

 

[speed2horizon]

well..TPS was just a mere adjustable "reostat"/variable resistor...as long as u can hook it up to the throttle linkage..it should be easy to work with....fuel pump definately have to run separately from the one that feeding the card tough...


well...in my opinion it was a possible job to do....mods need patient and research to start...

Yeah... reasonable solution... too

But, TPS signal gives reading 0-5V. And, just curious if the induced air would run smoothly through the carburetor... cause it's just not a big hole...

I'm noob in Carbie...

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

Yeah... reasonable solution... too

But, TPS signal gives reading 0-5V. And, just curious if the induced air would run smoothly through the carburetor... cause it's just not a big hole...

I'm noob in Carbie...

well..here is one example that use simple additional injector>> http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Extra-Injector-Controller/A_0693/article.html (even it was running on already efi setup...might show some light to carbie tuner...who knows)

also another additional injector controller>> http://www.034motorsport.com/supplementary-ecu-a-32.html


-yep..there's a little restriction inside the carbie hole...but the main problem is how to properly seal the vaccum-operated hole inside to enable the carb to recieve boost pressure...otherwise your fuel would be overflowed when boosting...

well..i'm just trying to help...

 

[mediocre2]

speed2horizon,

errmmmmm thanks for the info dude, hmmm so right now i have to prepare the materials before bolting on the turbo... which turbo is the best choice? td04? hope to get it running soon. (: and also i've heard that i require colder spark plugs, what does that mean? hmmm thicker gasket is not neccessary for low boost yet rite? what else do i need? and also about fueling and ignition timing, i need bigger cc injectors, approx how big? 290cc? and ignition timing, how to go about it?

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------

and also i search around, 4g93 stock injectors size is 240cc, hmmm so best replacement is from what car's injectors to get 290cc or above bro?

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

installation wasn't really complicated sir..

TUNING was the main problem...while u can alter fuel/air mixture of EFI with a simple keyboard play....u have to dismantle the carb and change jetting EVERYTIME u want to make change of fuel/air mixture combination...

certainly....a suction type (carb infront of compressor intake side) wasn't really reliable even this configuration was easier to tune....

i've done it on a few type of bikes....but that was for fun and testing purpose.....not reliable for daily use...(still i insist u to go for EFI type to BOT)

Ah yes about the jetting, I did read about that. Hmm but dude, I read that the boost might cause problems with the fuel float or something like that cause carbs run on gravity instead of pressure right?

HAHA wow you kaki motorcycle also huh? I'm just itchy backside want to know how hard is it... I might conisder B.O.T the stock carb enging cause I really dont want the hassle of a swap. Got no money thats one, and my parents will well... cause world war 3.

Which do you think would cost more though? A swap or just B.O.T the carb engine? Power I dont really bother, not much of a power junkie .

How about SUPERCHARGING? Would that be better than turboing since the airflow is constant? :hmmmm:

---------- Post added at 12:41 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:39 AM ----------

Wei... LWW, ur avatar very lansi oh... BOT CARB, normally can be done. But the jarum part is the hard part. Tune to get top end, u'll get rich low end. Get the low end U'll get lean top end.

HAHAHA yes, I syok-sendiri put lah ...

This forums avatars need more humor, no offence intended to anyone!

 

[hachiroku clan]

hmm interesting BOT on a carbie.. what is your target LWW? i was thinking of the same thing coz im running a carbie too.. for everyday run-around (work-home) and mostly town use, its better to focus at low-mid range right? but will it help increase milage?

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

hmm interesting BOT on a carbie.. what is your target LWW? i was thinking of the same thing coz im running a carbie too.. for everyday run-around (work-home) and mostly town use, its better to focus at low-mid range right? but will it help increase milage?

Yeaaah its something thats rare for one. Target? None. I just want it to be drivable and have a bit more torque haha .

I'm intrested in this is 80% just to learn how to do it and get the experience. Cost, whats needed, I rather have that than power .

If power I would have gotten a SR20 but everybody has one nowadays huh? Boring lah hehe. Wanna be a different wagon.

What car do you have hachi? And yeah, by the book low-mid range is better around town. But personally if I got a turbo I like the midrange-top end kick with just a biiiiit of lag. Old school turbo feeling man haha.

Mileage? Taktau worrr. We both do then compare mileage lah .

 

[hachiroku clan]

Yeaaah its something thats rare for one. Target? None. I just want it to be drivable and have a bit more torque haha .

I'm intrested in this is 80% just to learn how to do it and get the experience. Cost, whats needed, I rather have that than power .

If power I would have gotten a SR20 but everybody has one nowadays huh? Boring lah hehe. Wanna be a different wagon.

What car do you have hachi? And yeah, by the book low-mid range is better around town. But personally if I got a turbo I like the midrange-top end kick with just a biiiiit of lag. Old school turbo feeling man haha.

Mileage? Taktau worrr. We both do then compare mileage lah .

im driving corolla SE AE92.. last batch of corolla's carbie engine.. after mine, its all EFI already.. feel so old school man!
maybe when i got nothing else to do to the car, i'll BOT it.. for the fun of it..
if at all i do it, i might go with low-mid range as my car is not so rev-happy (i think) or is it just me? haha

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

im driving corolla SE AE92.. last batch of corolla's carbie engine.. after mine, its all EFI already.. feel so old school man!
maybe when i got nothing else to do to the car, i'll BOT it.. for the fun of it..
if at all i do it, i might go with low-mid range as my car is not so rev-happy (i think) or is it just me? haha

Ooh nice. Liftback or saloon? And what engine does it come standard with? :hmmmm:

Haha yeah wei bro, join meeee. If I ever get it done eitherways, I still got lots to know whats the pro's and cons.

So far the cons are outweighing the pros HAHA. Have you done any mods to your car now at the moment?

 

[hachiroku clan]

Ooh nice. Liftback or saloon? And what engine does it come standard with? :hmmmm:

Haha yeah wei bro, join meeee. If I ever get it done eitherways, I still got lots to know whats the pro's and cons.

So far the cons are outweighing the pros HAHA. Have you done any mods to your car now at the moment?

saloon.. comes with 4A-F.. only got 2 letters, others have 4AFE, 4AGE, 4 AGZE.. mine is only an 'AF' so u can guess how it performs!
but its a good town car i can say.. mods? its not in my cars' dictionary yet, keeping it stock.. coz just did major servicing, changed timing belt, other belts, n clutch.. there goes me money! poor me..
but my car is using extractors, no more stock manifold n a non-branded muffler and electric/electronic distributor..
what bout u?

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

saloon.. comes with 4A-F.. only got 2 letters, others have 4AFE, 4AGE, 4 AGZE.. mine is only an 'AF' so u can guess how it performs!
but its a good town car i can say.. mods? its not in my cars' dictionary yet, keeping it stock.. coz just did major servicing, changed timing belt, other belts, n clutch.. there goes me money! poor me..
but my car is using extractors, no more stock manifold n a non-branded muffler and electric/electronic distributor..
what bout u?

Uhh same as you I guess, routine maintainence, whole exhaust system front to back, ah-beng grounding cables HAHA (My dad bought them, he couldnt resist) and spark plug cables...

Next up planning to get carbs . Oh I did a few things to my wagons chassis also.