amp dilema

[desmond937]

i have another question, why those not braded stuff never come out compete with those branded stuff one? i mean like competition that time. all pakat already one is it? and how does the judge know which car is better? when the judge listen to the 1st car, i purposely on it loud, i make the judge goes to hearing impairment, then when he goes to second car, sure he cant differentiate much bout the system d. how do u guys explain that? i really want to know la, hehe....

desmond.

 

[kyheng]

The 2 in 75W X2 means 2 channels, 4 means 4 channels

 

[oldskolboyz]

Frend, if like this ... I dont think you will get what ppl try to help you to understand about ICE.... not finish 4ch story... come 2ch... comp set not yet..

Componet set.
1) 2way = have 2 driver, 1st Midrange/midbass & 2nd Tweeter
2) 3way = have 3 driver, 1st Midbass, 2nd midrange & 3rd Tweeter

Amp - basic only (without amp class)
1) 1ch- monoblock
2) 1ch- mono
3) 2ch -
4) 3ch
5) 4ch
6) 5ch
7) 6ch

- chanel mean left & right to power up subwoofer, comp set (semi active) & driver (full active)

Now which part should we start...

 

[desmond937]

whats the difference between midrange and tweeter? how bout monoblock vs mono? those u mentioned active,semi active is adjust at the amp. crossover one is it?so if i want to fully utilize the amp, should i choose 38w RMS x 4 or 70w RMS x 2? i have 2 pair of speakers both rating at 35w RMS and 50w RMS. both are also coaxials. so how? wanna learn la...thank you.

desmond.

 

[oldskolboyz]

Mid Bass, can play low freq 950Khz & good in produce low bass
Mid Range, can play low freq >90 but lack in produce good bass & very good for high freq. to back-up freq which mid bass & tweeter can not play..
Tweeter, can play high freq 2.0khz onwards but some high end tweeter can go down to 750hz or lower then that.
Monoblock amp special design for Sub woofer due can give big power out put & not suitable for others driver (midbass, midrange & tweeter). Mono amp only have 1ch output... some only have 1ch input & other have 2ch input... some mono can play all the driver but some only suitable for sub... depend on power out put... for some crazy ppl use it to power for each driver... I saw it last time.. last 2 years I go to europe (company support 1 laaa).. if I not mistaken at Budapest, Hungary... use 7 mono amp for his 4ways system...
Semi active, each ch amp power up 2/3 driver (mid & tweet) through passive xo.
Full active, each ch amp power up only 1 driver either midbass, midrange, tweet & doesn't mean through E/cross but some HU can do without it..
Which 1 my choice did know coz... U need to think for future upgrade... how long U will use the coxcial speaker & do you have plan, next 2/3 months or next year change it to component set (front)... for amp we need to choose the right 1... to make sure next time we did not have problem on it... just think about good speaker or add sub woofer....

 

[kyheng]

Should tell our friend from begining(HU till sub) and keep his mouth shut, haha.

HU
most of the HU now speaker output power is around 18-25w rms, with minimum 1 RCA pre-out with power of 2.2V(Pioneer) to 8V(Eclispe)
For a higher output RCA pre-out power voltage, sure the price will be higher, the price range for a HU is from 300 till 2-3k

Speakers
Is used for producing voice and music.
4"-5.5" is more for vocal only, lack of midbass.
6.5" is best for midbass, but lack of vocal, so some it is best to match with a pair of tweeter. That's why it comes out the so-called component set. Like Oldskolboyz said about the 2 way or 3 way. Whatever it is , it will have a pair of tweeter.
This is only applied to middle or lower range brand only, that one higher end one I don't how they perform.

Sub / woofer
Is used for bass or drum sound, best for techno, trance, rock and other modern songs.
It have either single voil coil(SVC) or dual voive coil(DVC).
SVC is it only have 1 voice coil for the sub and normally will be at 4ohm or 8ohm.
DVC is it have 2 voice coil for the sub and normally will be at 2ohm, 4ohm or 8ohm. The ohm will be changed depend on how we wire it.
Basically a DVC sub perform better than a SVC sub, but sure the cost for a DVC will be higher.

Pre-amps / equalizers
Used for fine tuning yours songs from front, normall installed below HU. Some people said that pre-amp is useless, but when the HU only have 1 pre-out, then it is usefull in some sence.
It can be used to adjust your treble, mid, bass for you speakers, and sub's volume also.

Crossovers : passive or eletronic
Eletronic crossover : Similar to pre-amp, only it have more knob to tune your songs. Only the down part is it only can adjust on below car seat, can adjust for band-pass, run your system active and so on.
Passive crossover : a static crossover that consist of coil(low pass filter), capacitor(high pass filter) and resistor. Normally you will see it on a component set. Can build a simple passive crossover also, for tweeter use a capacitor to reduce the bass that goes into the tweeter and coil to reduce treble goes into the midbass speaker. For this, alot of research to be done in order to get a good match, else will end up like tweeter pitch too high or midbass no bass.

Storage capacitor
To be use when ICE total system RMS is more than 500watts. But some people never use it even the total power is more than 500.

Amps
Got few class : class A, B, AB, D
class A, B or AB the effiency is low, normally around 40-50%, not like class D, around 80-90%
Class A, B or AB is the normal 2 or 4 channel amps that is in the market now with price range from 100-10k and used for power the speakers. Can be bridged to power a sub. Can call it a stereo amp. Normally is 4ohm and can goto 2ohm.
Class D is used mainly for sub only and normally people call it monoblock amp. It can used in 4ohm,2ohm or even 1ohm. If that amp can go down to 1 ohm, the price will be very high. Price range is from 1k and above.
1ch amp : monoblock amp for sub
2ch, 4ch amp : amp for speakers, bridged for sub
5ch amp : 4 ch for speakers, 1ch for sub

 

[craziechild]

http://www.bcae1.com/ <--- this would do the tricks... read up...

 

[kyheng]

Yarloh, forgot about this website already. For newbie like him, he might not able to get the point that he want.

 

[desmond937]

wahaha, really useful for me....actually i've been playing ICE for bout 4 years d.....just that i never really hardcore into it. i dun like electrical thingy thats why i study mechanical. however, i dun want to be conned again, hence plan to take up the habit of learning the basic ICE. generally i get what u guys stated, like the uses of the equipments. i'm not sure bout the amps and the connection of it. like from HU connection to amp then to speakers and sub. my current car (Myvi) dun have pre-out, so i uses the hi-low converter. from there onwards, can explain the "generally" right connection? i have 1 4-channel amp, 1 2-channel amp, 1 electronic XO as my basic equipments. explain to me like connect RCA cable from the HU pre-out to inout of 4 channel amp, then output 4 channel amp uses RCA again to electronic XO blah blah blah.....pls? hehe, thank you.

desmond.

 

[kyheng]

Like this, you have to use the high-low converter from front and rear, then go to your e-crossover.
From e-crossover, front output(HU) goes to front(E-XO) output to your amp(front 4ch).
rear output(HU) goes to rear(E-XO) output to your amp(rear 4ch)
Hope your XO is a 3 way crossover. If yes, it should have a selector for sub, normally it should follow rear input then out to 2(1 is rear speakers and 1 for sub). The selector you select to sub, then it should solve all your problem. Unless you are going to change a HU which I think you won't do so, as Myvi cannot change HU, the bracket got problem...

 

[desmond937]

my e-XO is 3 way one, has another input for sub and also sub vol. control. so roughly i know the connection la,i see my installer test test the sound, then alternate the RCA cable, is it becos opposite connection can make big difference? and also different +ve and -ve will alter the speakers sound also rite?must test and trial one is it?

i wish to buy a 5m RCA cable (streetwire) cos got cheap sales. but which position should i connect in order to give best sound, budget restrict mah. or 1 good RCA cable cant make much difference? must use all one is it?

so now i already done the installation on my car, and i satisfy the sound it produce, however my 4 channel amp is faulty, i want to replace it, just swap only? i'm using different amp with different power rate. is all depends on me wheter i want to stick with the same setup or different setup to utilize the amp is it?

 

[kyheng]

So fast the amp faulty? Yeah, you can replace it with another 4ch amp, then case close. Do some tunning and you are on the go..
+ve and -ve does have effect on the speakers, mainly on the bass.
For your XO and the HU, you can only use the rear output(HU) to control the sub if you want to control front and rear sound.

 

[craziechild]

i think the +ve and -ve is when you swap it the cone will beat the opposite way... like when it is supposed to beat out on normal connection.. when its terbalik connected, it will suck in like tht... correct me if i am wrong....

cheers...

 

[desmond937]

hey there,
what do ppl mean when they ask you whether u running active or passive? whats the diff? does RCA cable make a significant difference? like say i use half branded, half not branded stuff?

do we have a type of speaker wires where one either +ve or -ve is silver and copper? cos my fren told me this type of speakers wire give better sound. is this true? pasar road got selling la.

 

[kyheng]

This type of wire, just survey the price few days ago when I was buying starter for my light, the price is rm60 for 50M, so 1M is rm1.20...

 

[Zenn]

whats the rule of thumb when come to choosing amplifier? is it must look at 4ohm, then look at RMS power rating, it must be more than the speakers rating in RMS? however, watever amp also can be use, just that if the amp is not enough power for instance, 20W RMS at 4 ohm, cannot fully "beat-alize" a speakers with 35W RMS is it? correct me, i wish to know. thank you.

desmond.

amp rating is at 4ohm because they normally drive speakers at 4ohm, that is standard in car audio, in home audio 8ohm is more common. we look at RMS value because that is the more constant average rating, not to be fooled by max power rating given by cap ayam amps. the power we feed the speakers should be up to the maximum power the speaker can take. so for beginners i advice just match rms amp to rms speaker, later on u will know sometimes u need double the rms power, sometimes u need half the rms power, all depends on the individual amp and/or speaker, due to own characteristics.

 

[Zenn]

sifu, let say i have 2 set of speakers, both also at 4ohm impedence. but the amp i have only give 75wRMS x 2 at 4ohm. whats that "x 2" means? means 1 set speakers can only get 75w RMS from the amp? therefore we got these these "x 2" mean is it? pls help me? thank you.

desmond.

when u say 2 sets, that means u have 4 speakers, right? so a 2 channel amp like 75Wx2 will not be enough, but still possible lah if want to wire it parallel (2 sets per channel). 75Wx2 means it gives out 75W per channel, and the x2 means it is a 2 channel stereo amp, more suitable for just one set of speakers (2 units) not 2 sets (4 units)

 

[Zenn]

i have another question, why those not braded stuff never come out compete with those branded stuff one? i mean like competition that time. all pakat already one is it? and how does the judge know which car is better? when the judge listen to the 1st car, i purposely on it loud, i make the judge goes to hearing impairment, then when he goes to second car, sure he cant differentiate much bout the system d. how do u guys explain that? i really want to know la, hehe....

desmond.

it is up to each brand to come out and compete if they think they can do well. remember it is more about tuning skill than just equipment. nobody pakat-2 one lah....

in competitions, the volume level is set by the judge themselves. it is up to them how loud they want. of coz this is SQ competition, not SPL, there they just hantam max volume and play fart sounds. maybe u hear one car louder than the other because one car has more sound dampening treatment, hence u cant hear much from outside.

 

[Zenn]

whats the difference between midrange and tweeter? how bout monoblock vs mono? those u mentioned active,semi active is adjust at the amp. crossover one is it?so if i want to fully utilize the amp, should i choose 38w RMS x 4 or 70w RMS x 2? i have 2 pair of speakers both rating at 35w RMS and 50w RMS. both are also coaxials. so how? wanna learn la...thank you.

desmond.

midrange speakers are the medium sized speakers, from 4 inch to 6.5 inch diameter u normally see. tweeters are the small 1 inch tiny things u see on the dashboard, but some people use the large home tweeters that can go from 3 inch to 5 inch.

monoblock amps only have one channel, usually used for subwoofers (the large speakers u see in boxes, range from 8 inch to 15inch)

active is driving each speaker with one channel, not using any passive crossover.
semi active means there is a mix, some speaker driven directly, some driven with passive. passive crossover is the small box u find in component sets, they divide frequencies between tweeter and midrange.

for your coaxials u should get a 4ch amp since u are driving 4 speakers.

 

[Zenn]

my current car (Myvi) dun have pre-out, so i uses the hi-low converter. from there onwards, can explain the "generally" right connection? i have 1 4-channel amp, 1 2-channel amp, 1 electronic XO as my basic equipments. explain to me like connect RCA cable from the HU pre-out to inout of 4 channel amp, then output 4 channel amp uses RCA again to electronic XO blah blah blah.....pls? hehe, thank you.

desmond.

HU - HiLo - El XO -- 4ch amp - 4 speakers
|
2 ch amp - subwoofer