amp dilema

[Zenn]

my e-XO is 3 way one, has another input for sub and also sub vol. control. so roughly i know the connection la,i see my installer test test the sound, then alternate the RCA cable, is it becos opposite connection can make big difference? and also different +ve and -ve will alter the speakers sound also rite?must test and trial one is it?

i wish to buy a 5m RCA cable (streetwire) cos got cheap sales. but which position should i connect in order to give best sound, budget restrict mah. or 1 good RCA cable cant make much difference? must use all one is it?

so now i already done the installation on my car, and i satisfy the sound it produce, however my 4 channel amp is faulty, i want to replace it, just swap only? i'm using different amp with different power rate. is all depends on me wheter i want to stick with the same setup or different setup to utilize the amp is it?

at the moment u only have 1 rca from your HU/hi-lo, so u only need one input. if later u get a HU with 2 or 3 inputs then u can utilize the other inputs (rear & sub)

the installer alternate left & right RCA probly because he wired wrongly the left and right so he has to change to make it correct again. or else he is just trying to figure out which input the crossover is using, front, rear or summed, etc etc lah...

changing +ve and -ve wire is to get correct polarity, but sometimes u can get better sound by reversed polarity in one or two of the speakers, all part of tuning & listening.

good RCA will always make a difference, if u compare RM20 and RM200 cable. here u can hear more difference then when u compare a RM200 cable with RM2000 cable, the difference doesnt justify the money spent.

basically if u replace a 4ch amp with another 4ch amp it should be a straight swap, maybe some wiring issues if the terminals are on different side, some maybe too short or too long. if youre not changing your speaker setup then its the same connections as before.

 

[Zenn]

hey there,
what do ppl mean when they ask you whether u running active or passive? whats the diff? does RCA cable make a significant difference? like say i use half branded, half not branded stuff?

do we have a type of speaker wires where one either +ve or -ve is silver and copper? cos my fren told me this type of speakers wire give better sound. is this true? pasar road got selling la.

active means not using any passive crossover, each speaker is driven directly by each amp channel. eg) 4ch amp driving 2 tweeters and 2 mids
if passive, then a 2 ch amp is driving both tweeter & mids thru a passive crossover.
RCA quality does make a difference since it is carrying the audio signal from your HU to your amp. remember, your audio system is only as good as its weakest link. look for something in RM1++ region u can be satisfied for long time, good for future upgrades.

some speaker manufacturer save cost by just giving half the wire in copper, i doubt the other is silver bcoz silver wires are very expensive (RM25 per ft, cheapest) its probably tin/metal mix that u see. copper wires will be around RM6 per ft cheapest, depending on thickness)

the common opinion is that metal wires will be more dynamic but sharper. copper will be more warm and smoother. silver will give lots of detail, but also sharp-ish.


wah desmond u owe me 1 jug teh tarik, now i got headache oledi from typing...

 

[craziechild]

wah.... once reply so many info shared... sifu memang sifu.... zenn.... when can produce "I.C.E. for dummies"? hehehe....

 

[desmond937]

question:

amp:
1) my amp is a 4 channel and why is stated 75wRMS x 2 at 4 ohm one? and the other is 38wRMS x 4 at 2 ohm. they print wrongly is it? my amp is kicker KX150.4 .
2) monoblock amp, means 1 channel, say giving 300wRMS at 4ohm can support a pair of subwoofer rating at 300wRMS each? or maybe possible to 150wRMS each?
3) amp's gain is to actually increase the volume or wat?the signal?high end amp have other frequency response in db, whats that for also?

connection:
1) HU - hi/low - 3 way e-XO - 4 channel - speakers, but i connect the 2 channel to 3 way e-xo then to sub.

can this be possible?

active/passive:
1) i do not use component sets hence i got no component xo, however, i have this 3 way e-xo, does this mean i'm also running on passive?

Acknowledgement:

special thanks to Zenn for his expertize skills and also not to forget kyheng and also oldschoolboys and the rest to answer my question. however, i still want to know more, so pls dun scold me or get angry if i ask stupid question ya.

Zenn : can i treat u limau ice instead of teh tarik? cos i'm worried u have no more voice if i keep asking question. hehe......thanks for ur kindness in teaching. really appreciate.

 

[desmond937]

reliability issue:
how reliable is when i always put my car under the sun for 5days a week, will it destroy the quality of my ICE, performance? or generally no effect?i've tinted my car.

 

[kyheng]

For your reliability issue, it will spoilt in long term, as most of the speakers, some parts is made from rubber. But normally will last you for few years. The best is try and get a place that have shade. Even your speakers can last, but maybe other parts on your car cannot last.
Forgot to add in: your 75W X2 is bridged output at 4ohm, they never print wrongly. The other thing is 38W X4 at 2ohm is the amp can connect to 4 speakers at 2ohm.
Normally a monoblock amp can support to 2ohm stable, if a monoblock is 300w at 4ohm, maybe at 2ohm it will be 600w. For your Myvi, os better to use 1 sub, atleast you still have place to put your things...
For your setup, is considered as passive.
For your connection, XO connection is RCA in then RCA out, sure is impossible to connect like this. Since you only have 1 hi-low, then you have to use the XO to do all the crossover job. You have to check the line up on your XO, very hard to say without picture. If not mistaken, from the rear input, it can go to front, rear and sub(have the selector on each of them). After you connect like this, then you will be very hard, when the front speakers too loud or rear too loud... Very troublesome to adjust the sound. But your sub's volume can be adjust as it have a remote knob(if provided). So the best solution is you have to buy another hi-low converter and another RCA cable, then connect it like this : front(HU) > front(XO) > front(amp, 4ch), rear(HU) > rear(XO) > rear(amp, 4ch)
> sub out(using the selector) > amp, 2ch > sub.
For this you can adjust your front, rear speakers volume using your HU's fader control.

 

[desmond937]

so this 38wRMS x 4 at 2ohm means 76wRMS x 4 at 4ohm correct?otherwise where should i refer to 4ohm RMS power?all my speakers are at 4 ohms.hmm....now i only have one hi/low converter fixed. so, the arrangement of it should be how?let me try....

HU -> hi/low(2 pre-out) -> 1 pre-out to front input of e-xo, the other pre-out to rear e-xo -> then from e-xo, front high pass to front 4 channel, rear high pass to rear 4 channel -> sub low pass to 2 channel.

is this arrangement correct? i'm confuse abit, this hi/low got 2 RCA button only rite?i see my manual book of e-xo, why the front and rear input both got 2 RCA button each one?they use the 1 to 2 RCA cable to connect one is it?whats is cons for doing this?

 

[desmond937]

hi/low does affect the sound produce by the HU? cos my fren said it'll somehow affect the sound quality of it.is this true? i dun feel so cos last time my car is equip with pioneer cd-player, and now i using back the original player from Myvi with previous setup, i cant listen the difference. any comment on this?

 

[kyheng]

I think is better you post your Xo's photo here or the model no, easier for us to see...

 

[oldskolboyz]

1)so this 38wRMS x 4 at 2ohm means 76wRMS x 4 at 4ohm correct?otherwise where should i refer to 4ohm RMS power?all my speakers are at 4 ohms.hmm....now i only have one hi/low converter fixed. so, the arrangement of it should be how?let me try....

2)HU -> hi/low(2 pre-out) -> 1 pre-out to front input of e-xo, the other pre-out to rear e-xo -> then from e-xo, front high pass to front 4 channel, rear high pass to rear 4 channel -> sub low pass to 2 channel.

3)is this arrangement correct? i'm confuse abit, this hi/low got 2 RCA button only rite?i see my manual book of e-xo, why the front and rear input both got 2 RCA button each one?they use the 1 to 2 RCA cable to connect one is it?whats is cons for doing this?

1) Amp power out.. lower Impedance can gain more power not the other way...
2) As I know normal Hi/Low only have 2ch out put... U mean yours 1 4ch (2pre-out)
3) Check your XO.. Parallel input swiitch... this switch have or not... should have 1 laa... HU - Hi/Low (2ch) - XO front input (Parallel switch must set on position) - XO front out to amp/ Rear out put to amp & Sub out put to amp... this set-up don't have fader... please note hi/low converter can't use for sub input (XO).. if U keep the ori HU in your system... your need to scarifice the Fader... or extra money to invest for another 2ch amp + 1 set Hi/Low converter for rear speaker.

 

[Zenn]

question:

amp:
1) my amp is a 4 channel and why is stated 75wRMS x 2 at 4 ohm one? and the other is 38wRMS x 4 at 2 ohm. they print wrongly is it? my amp is kicker KX150.4 .
2) monoblock amp, means 1 channel, say giving 300wRMS at 4ohm can support a pair of subwoofer rating at 300wRMS each? or maybe possible to 150wRMS each?
3) amp's gain is to actually increase the volume or wat?the signal?high end amp have other frequency response in db, whats that for also?

connection:
1) HU - hi/low - 3 way e-XO - 4 channel - speakers, but i connect the 2 channel to 3 way e-xo then to sub.

can this be possible?

active/passive:
1) i do not use component sets hence i got no component xo, however, i have this 3 way e-xo, does this mean i'm also running on passive?

when the 4ch is bridged it becomes 2 ch amp with double the power. interesting to note that it is 2ohm stable at all 4 channels, however the increase in power is only 8watts, hehe funny la this amp.
for the monoblock and sub it depends on few more things that moght confuse u, how u wire the subs and what ohm ratings they are is how u know what power will be coming out of the amp. normal senario, your 2 subs are single voice coil 4 ohms, wired in parallel to give a 2ohm load, now the mono amp is giving 600W @ 2ohm, but each sub gets 300W each.
the amp gain is to increase the signal strength received from your HU, careful not to over do it as speakers will rosak when its clipping/distorted. thats why ppl pay more for Hu with high voltage pre out so they can run their amps at zero gain for the cleanest sound.

your connection to amp can only come before the amp, not after the amp. the el. crossover is used to divide the sound frequency to the proper speaker driven by their respective amps. so the crossover will filter the low sub sounds to the sub amp to the subwoofer. this way the tweeter will not get this sub sound and blow itself up.

your coaxials dont have passive but they have a small coil or capacitor to separate the sounds going to mid and tweeter. together with your electronic crossover for the 2 amps that means youre running semi-active, hehe...

now u owe me teh o ais limau + roti bakar 2 set

 

[Zenn]

so this 38wRMS x 4 at 2ohm means 76wRMS x 4 at 4ohm correct?otherwise where should i refer to 4ohm RMS power?all my speakers are at 4 ohms.hmm....now i only have one hi/low converter fixed. so, the arrangement of it should be how?let me try....

HU -> hi/low(2 pre-out) -> 1 pre-out to front input of e-xo, the other pre-out to rear e-xo -> then from e-xo, front high pass to front 4 channel, rear high pass to rear 4 channel -> sub low pass to 2 channel.

is this arrangement correct? i'm confuse abit, this hi/low got 2 RCA button only rite?i see my manual book of e-xo, why the front and rear input both got 2 RCA button each one?they use the 1 to 2 RCA cable to connect one is it?whats is cons for doing this?

your amp is rated 30Wx4 @ 4ohm so u only need to know this rating since all your speakers are 4 ohm. if u bridge the 4 channels into 2, it becomes 76Wx2 @4ohm

your hi-lo only has 1 pair of pre out, connect this to your e-xover front in, from there u can get 3 pre outs, 1st pair from the front out to the 4ch amp ch 1&2, 2nd pair rear out to 4ch amp ch 3&4, sub pre out to sub amp.

 

[desmond937]

yeah yeah Zenn, u r correct, i notice the connection already when i went to change bucket seat.so u mean whenever the amp stated, say 38wRMS x 4 at 2 ohm, but never state the figure for 4ohm one, we just minus 8w only rite?oh, now i know.......

how's the parelle connection like for the sub?what bout series?hmmm.....electrical thingy.

so with the above mentioned connection, i cannot control the volume of front and back speakers using fader is it? whats the best connection for my setup now to fully utilize all the component?add one more hi/low converter and also another RCA cable? then the setup will be?

If i have one RCA cable (branded), where should i connect to? from hi/low to front input of e-xo rite?

 

[desmond937]

kyheng:
my e-xo is not branded one de, is PROSPEC 3-way active electronic crossover network. it come with one sub volume knob lo. whats the rear inout from the e-xo?how come my installer din use it one?cos i only got 2 pre-out from hi/low only?wat if i use the rear input?wat will i get?

to my disgrace, when i take out my seat, i saw the connection of my amp and e-xo, the acc. shop guy never use lug to connect to my amp and e-xo, they just straight away connect it without lug! damn lousy workmanship! means i'm not getting good sound liao rite? or it doesn't make much difference?but his tuning is good la.satisfy my needs. if i know how to do, i rather do it myself! now after install seat, the seat when taken out accidently kacau my e-XO. now my i dun feel my car have bass liao, wat happen ah? got this multiplier for front high pass and rear high pass la. then also got this sub phase? should i out the multiplier to x1 or x20? and the sub phase?0 deeg. or 180 deeg.?sigh....

 

[desmond937]

oh yeah, my previous setup which utilize pioneer as HU, it has 2 preout only also, minus off the e-xo, i wonder how they setup it. they din use hi/low converter also.how ah?

 

[kyheng]

Because you never ask them to do it, anyway if add another hi-low, means you have to buy another RCA cable. But then you have more control if add another hi-low. You can control your fader as I said earlier
Since now you only have 1 pair of pre-out to your crossover, maybe some selector was turn off, that's why you lost your bass. If you can accesss to it easily, then is time that you learn DIY. Normally, all the gain setting you should put to 30-50%, then turn on your HU to play some songs. Then the sub should put to minimum from the knob, then adjust your treble, mid, bass. If the front speakers is too loud, you can reduce the gain, this same to rear.
The x1(softer) or x20(louder) is the power setting I guess, you can try play around with it. The sub phase is normal(0deg) or reverse(180deg).

 

[desmond937]

1)wat if i never use the lug to connect on amp, the sound came out not clear one?
2)actually before this i have a pre-amp, if i insisted to install the pre-amp together, how would the connection be?
3)another thing is, i notice my installer after take out the HU,besides installing the hi/low, he also dunnno connect extra wire one, wat is he doing?is it those wire originally connected to the player, they wanted to cut it off so that connect the wire from speakers to amp, is it?like this means i got half ori wire, half acc. wire lo?
4)every connection will drop current is it?the best is to minimize connection?

i hope i can DIY also, problem is i dunno how to open the console also.

 

[kyheng]

1)It should not, unless they not connect it properly
2)You will end up using more 1 or 2 RCA cable, maybe air plane sound too, but if ok means you will have more control on your front, rear and sub's volume.
3)You pay less, then they will install less for you lor. They will try to use back your wires.
4)Some, but not much, is the best to connect direct. But then you have to pay extra.

 

[Zenn]

the x1 or x20 is frequency multiplier, used if u want to use the crossover for the tweeter direct, like in active setups. if using passive u will use x1, for tweeter only use x20.

 

[desmond937]

today i just went to install my new amp, replaced the old one, from cap ayam brand to kicker KX150.4 . result is up to satisfactory, not really high difference. more clearer in vocal and a bit more solid in bass. perhaps my amp not matching with my 4" JBL and 6.5" alpine speakers. according to my installer, he say i mixed good brand with cap ayam brand, the result come out might even worst than a fully cap ayam brand. is this true? guess i have to slowly upgrade liao. and he said, when i have a full set of branded stuff, i cant listen to those pirated cd d, is useless d. i dunno wat he mean by that la.

i change my normal RCA cable to streetwire zero noise, from hi/low to 3 way electronic xo. result is i hear more hisssing sound, like sssssssssss when i open high volume! but the vocal is very "true" la. my installer said this is due to the hi/low. unless i change to hi/low adaptor that can adjust signal one. is this true?