Haltech Sprint 500

[nan83]

halo all sifu and otai...i have question...i already install haltech sprint 500 at my campro engine...My problem is, sprint 500 can not control throtle body (drive by wire). so, i still use oem ecu to control throtle..So, when a high rpm in gear 4 and 5, that throtle body will automatically shut itself throtle valve .. so, how can i solve this problem??? need to help...

huummm... you need to search if got a device that can control stepper motor tb independently.. i oso donno about it... the cheapest way is to convert it to cable throttlebody...

---------- Post added at 08:52 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:44 AM ----------

Well, I'm currently running on wasted spark Race-tech independent ignition coils. Something like Sparktech. So, I'm planning to separate all the coils into sequential. Do I need 2 ignitors(Power TR) to power them independantly..? Or the s500 can drive them directly..?

If it drives them directly, is there any possibility to add on 4 channel CDI in future..?

If it requires to drive with ignitors, can i replace 2 ignitors with a Microtech X4??


Please advise.. thank you.

s500 cannot drive coil... the ecu will burn..

CDI like dynatech arc can act like ignitor. s500-->arc-->racetech (but need 2unit, arc only 2ch)
maybe not all CDI unit can run without ignitor module.. need to it spec first ...

you aso can run 2 oem ignitor or microtech X4.... X4 is nothing special, just 4ch ignitor...

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:52 AM ----------

S500 cannot drive coils directly. You'll need external ignition driver/amplifer (known as Power TR to some) to achieve that. However, there is no significant power improvement running firing independent coil or waste spark. So there is no need to waste your $$.

waa... cannot say like that.. it not a waste, mybe it a must for certain engine.. the new tech been make is a improvement for older tech... why need improvement, coz old tech still have problem and cannot support in certain condition ...

wasted spark have 2 spark ... 1="ignite spark" 2="waste spark" (this is suppose not to ignite)

when it spark ??

-1st spark = ignite spark = spark 5~45'BTDC at compress stroke
-2nd spark =waste spark = spark 15~55'ABDC at exhaust stroke

what the prob with this sistem??

-the prob is the second spark "waste spark"

why 2nd spark "waste spark" prob??

-coz it spark it exhaust stroke... normally it not a prob coz no fuel at exhaust stroke, so no explotion or ignition happen.. so it fire for nothing & it a waste ...
- but we need to know, at exhaust stroke... valve overlap start to happen.. it will communicate the air fuel mixture & exhaust.... the communication of exhaust stroke & intake stroke will make a prob to us with wasted spark system.. it will cause backfire to the intake system & exhaust system... intake system also go to crank case system... it will make more trouble to us...

what will amplify backfire prob to happen ??
- use wild cam.. for me, start with 280' duration (more overlap), i will use sequential ignition...
- use of NOS
- batch fuel injection ( injector inject fuel while engine do not want it, fuel will stay on valve)
- hi overlap running at high rpm

Some true story:
-blow composite sump cover(steel sump no worry)(the explosion go to intake than go to crank case)
-blow engine
-back fire while starting (batch fuel + wasted spark + hi cam = easier to happen)
-etc

just sharing some info... any wrong, please educate me... thanks

 

[ashyu90]

huummm... you need to search if got a device that can control stepper motor tb independently.. i oso donno about it... the cheapest way is to convert it to cable throttlebody...

convert to cable throtle body...i think is a gud idea..thankz bro...

 

[speed2horizon]

s500 cannot drive coil... the ecu will burn..

CDI like dynatech arc can act like ignitor. s500-->arc-->racetech (but need 2unit, arc only 2ch)
maybe not all CDI unit can run without ignitor module.. need to it spec first ...

you aso can run 2 oem ignitor or microtech X4.... X4 is nothing special, just 4ch ignitor...

Ohh... thanks nan83. That's the exact answer I'm looking for. BTW, the so called "wasted spark" ignition system is also used to clean the exhaust gas for the strict emission regulation.

So, S500 can be used with X4 ignition box right..?
Cause that's what I'm planning to do.

There was 3 standalones I was looking into. Microtech LT10S, Sprint 500(Sport 1000 is too expensive for my budget), and the megasquirt 3.

But the LT10s does not runs close loops. Just afraid the fuel consumption will be too bad. But I also understand that if it's tuned with good AFR, U may no need to close loops. But engine condition changes everyday... That's what I'm worry of...BTW, I was told that with a wideband 0-5V signal, the LT10s can run close loop... Not sure if it's real...


Sprint 500, the problem I was facing has just been explained. The ignitor issue...

MS3.0, still under consideration...

 

[nan83]

Ohh... thanks nan83. That's the exact answer I'm looking for. BTW, the so called "wasted spark" ignition system is also used to clean the exhaust gas for the strict emission regulation.

So, S500 can be used with X4 ignition box right..?
Cause that's what I'm planning to do.

There was 3 standalones I was looking into. Microtech LT10S, Sprint 500(Sport 1000 is too expensive for my budget), and the megasquirt 3.

But the LT10s does not runs close loops. Just afraid the fuel consumption will be too bad. But I also understand that if it's tuned with good AFR, U may no need to close loops. But engine condition changes everyday... That's what I'm worry of...BTW, I was told that with a wideband 0-5V signal, the LT10s can run close loop... Not sure if it's real...


Sprint 500, the problem I was facing has just been explained. The ignitor issue...

MS3.0, still under consideration...

take microtech lah... champion choice right... no need to worry lah about o2 close loop control... this function only use for cruising only... it should be ok with our weather here...

example.... we set afr about 14.2:1 cruising @ sunny day... than at rainy/cool ambient temp. the afr maybe go abit leaner .... 14.7:1 .... tune it with optimum ign timing at cruising, you should get better afr compare to stock ecu (standalone without o2 close loop)... coz stock ecu still not tune to optimum (tight safety margin), still have room for optimum tuning...

2-3month, have a afr check to know if got something goes wrong....

my exp. running without close loop.... i only have minor idle fluctuation when i'm at genting & very cold weather .... at that situation, we need baro sensor & o2 & idle control to get it work properly .. but it only minor prob, no worry...

 

[speed2horizon]

take microtech lah... champion choice right... no need to worry lah about o2 close loop control... this function only use for cruising only... it should be ok with our weather here...

example.... we set afr about 14.2:1 cruising @ sunny day... than at rainy/cool ambient temp. the afr maybe go abit leaner .... 14.7:1 .... tune it with optimum ign timing at cruising, you should get better afr compare to stock ecu (standalone without o2 close loop)... coz stock ecu still not tune to optimum (tight safety margin), still have room for optimum tuning...

2-3month, have a afr check to know if got something goes wrong....

my exp. running without close loop.... i only have minor idle fluctuation when i'm at genting & very cold weather .... at that situation, we need baro sensor & o2 & idle control to get it work properly .. but it only minor prob, no worry...

Haha... Thanks nan83. But mind explaining more on the baro sensors & O2 & idle control part..?

BTW, How was the viton seals..?

 

[nan83]

Haha... Thanks nan83. But mind explaining more on the baro sensors & O2 control valve & idle control part..?

BTW, How was the viton seals..?

viton... so far so good.... still not give any prob yet.. but my engine still run low boost.. maybe next 3 week i will dyno it...

baro sensor = detect absolute pressure (ambient press).. sea level = 1bar , genting maybe 0.85bar.. this will link to fuel baro correction map.. normally we lock it at 1bar

o2 control valve?? you mean o2 close loop system ?? o2 sensor detect afr... ecu set the target.. so the ecu will try to adjust AFR to the the target we set by altering the injection mS ....

idle control = the idle stepper motor will control by ecu base on set point we set... exp. 1000rpm .. ecu will try to maintain that rpm by open or close the stepper motor...


the o2 control & idle control also have other control parameter to set.... how sensitive it will respond to disturbance.... we not set it correctly.... the output will go more crazy... so it not as simple as we think...

hehehe... we want good afr with close loop.... end of result it will give more fuel consumption if we not set it correctly.... first we need to have very good base map, the last is we set the close loop system... so base map give stable afr reading, than the close loop system will take less job to correct the parameter... if base map not stable.. afr 13... than shoot to 14.. than shoot to 12.. the close loop system oso can gila.... huhuhu.. it take time to do correction, it no so fast algorithm & calculation...

 

[speed2horizon]

viton... so far so good.... still not give any prob yet.. but my engine still run low boost.. maybe next 3 week i will dyno it...

baro sensor = detect absolute pressure (ambient press).. sea level = 1bar , genting maybe 0.85bar.. this will link to fuel baro correction map.. normally we lock it at 1bar

o2 control valve?? you mean o2 close loop system ?? o2 sensor detect afr... ecu set the target.. so the ecu will try to adjust AFR to the the target we set by altering the injection mS ....

idle control = the idle stepper motor will control by ecu base on set point we set... exp. 1000rpm .. ecu will try to maintain that rpm by open or close the stepper motor...


the o2 control & idle control also have other control parameter to set.... how sensitive it will respond to disturbance.... we not set it correctly.... the output will go more crazy... so it not as simple as we think...

hehehe... we want good afr with close loop.... end of result it will give more fuel consumption if we not set it correctly.... first we need to have very good base map, the last is we set the close loop system... so base map give stable afr reading, than the close loop system will take less job to correct the parameter... if base map not stable.. afr 13... than shoot to 14.. than shoot to 12.. the close loop system oso can gila.... huhuhu.. it take time to do correction, it no so fast algorithm & calculation...

Thanks for the clear explaination nan83. But, there's a problem here. I assume u are using LT10s as well. And I reckon that LT10s does not run close loops even if u inject 0-5V wideband O2 signal. It only display, it doesn't correct. And stepper motor, I don't think there's output for the stepper motor. Well, I'm not sure about the baro...

 

[nan83]

Thanks for the clear explaination nan83. But, there's a problem here. I assume u are using LT10s as well. And I reckon that LT10s does not run close loops even if u inject 0-5V wideband O2 signal. It only display, it doesn't correct. And stepper motor, I don't think there's output for the stepper motor. Well, I'm not sure about the baro...

no... i'm tell you about s500 ... not microtech... i oso dunno much about micro, just see manual only....

 

[speed2horizon]

no... i'm tell you about s500 ... not microtech... i oso dunno much about micro, just see manual only....

Ah diu.... okok... sry, my bad... Too much computer screen for today.... kepala bengong ad... I should have understood the moment u mentioned O2 and idle...

It's still too early to decide.... After engine rebuilt will still need 5000KM before i can decide which route to go...

Who knows, I might end up with Megasquirt 3 pulak
Hehe

 

[ashyu90]

anyone know what the advantages and disadvantages sprint500...need to know...plz help///

 

[jo1]

Running direct fire have more advantage as compare to running waste spark. The direct fire system double the time for coil to charge (every four revolution) as compare to waste spark (every two revolution) before the plug ignite the fuel. The more time it charge the better spark energy you get. If the engine rev higher the shortest time for the coil to charged before it fire again and divide the time by two when you are running waste spark. There are 10whp extra when the car converted from waste spark to direct fire and this is on 1.8na engine. I don't know how much to expect for turbo because i never run my car in waste spark system whether it using Microtech or Haltech.

Any management is as good as the tuner... Find a tuner first than the management second.

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------

halo all sifu and otai...i have question...i already install haltech sprint 500 at my campro engine...My problem is, sprint 500 can not control throtle body (drive by wire). so, i still use oem ecu to control throtle..So, when a high rpm in gear 4 and 5, that throtle body will automatically shut itself throtle valve .. so, how can i solve this problem??? need to help...

How the fuel and ignition wiring of the original ecu and S500 were done? Did you still have the check engine light function?

 

[ashyu90]

How the fuel and ignition wiring of the original ecu and S500 were done? Did you still have the check engine light function?[/quote]

i dont know bout wiring...bcoz i send my car at gt auto 3 days...but my check engine light is still on everytime .. I have to ask mr Chew soon gt auto.. he said this was because the ECU oem does not receive feedback from the ignition and air flow ..plz need to advices/...

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:44 PM ----------

mr jo1...i dont know bout wiring...bcoz i send my car at gt auto 3 days...but my check engine light is still on everytime .. I have to ask mr Chew soon gt auto.. he said this was because the ECU oem does not receive feedback from the ignition and air flow ..plz need to advices/...

 

[jo1]

Gt auto should know how to settle your problem. It better you bring your car there since the installation and tuning was done there. Your check engine light should on all the time because the is no signal received from the airflow, injector and ignition. That maybe the cause why the throttle butterfly keep closing at certain rpm which the ecu sense there is an error and it run into the safe mode by closing the throttle. You can fool the original ecu by putting something in between the cut wire so the ecu don't run into safe mode. You can put back the airflow sensor, install resistor to the injector wire and for the ignition wire i don't know yet how to do it.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

The simplest solution is change to throttle cable setup.

 

[ftzone]

please allow me to rephrase my post number #80.

Direct Fire Vs Wasted Spark. (All in my personal opinion for value)
I agree that direct fire would be better compared to waste spark. Not saying that is useless. However, for budget concerned modders which have street avg. horse power I think it is not a value for money upgrade. Since you can only churn out so little hp even to notice it on your butt.

My calculation are as follows:
Individual coils = MYR1k to MYR2k
After market ECU = MYR3k
A total of MYR4000

HP gained: 5-6bhp max. for MYR4000 spent for an on road car i don't think worth it lor.. thats all. unless for racing purpose very hp counts.

 

[nan83]

please allow me to rephrase my post number #80.

Direct Fire Vs Wasted Spark. (All in my personal opinion for value)
I agree that direct fire would be better compared to waste spark. Not saying that is useless. However, for budget concerned modders which have street avg. horse power I think it is not a value for money upgrade. Since you can only churn out so little hp even to notice it on your butt.

My calculation are as follows:
Individual coils = MYR1k to MYR2k
After market ECU = MYR3k
A total of MYR4000

HP gained: 5-6bhp max. for MYR4000 spent for an on road car i don't think worth it lor.. thats all. unless for racing purpose very hp counts.

what jo1 said is true... want more info about that system, just click below.. i already explain it...

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...1g-kiggly-racing-post4246922.html#post4246922

------------------------

to make sequential firing, we can do in a cheap way.... just need 2 unit for wasted spark coil... & wire it as 4 channel ... need to plug each hole of the coil... can done it not more than rm500..
but need standalone lah.... (refer to evo system)

 

[ftzone]

nan83.. you forgot to add the cost for the ignition driver. :)

 

[jo1]

please allow me to rephrase my post number #80.

Direct Fire Vs Wasted Spark. (All in my personal opinion for value)
I agree that direct fire would be better compared to waste spark. Not saying that is useless. However, for budget concerned modders which have street avg. horse power I think it is not a value for money upgrade. Since you can only churn out so little hp even to notice it on your butt.

My calculation are as follows:
Individual coils = MYR1k to MYR2k
After market ECU = MYR3k
A total of MYR4000

HP gained: 5-6bhp max. for MYR4000 spent for an on road car i don't think worth it lor.. thats all. unless for racing purpose very hp counts.

If someone buying the aftermarket ECU just for running a direct fire setup it a waste of money. The aftermarket ecu have more capabilities to adapt to any modification done to the car that the main point people upgrade to stand alone.

The direct fire system is one of the capabilities supported by the Stand alone ecu unless you're using E6X or LT8. The cost to upgrade to Direct fire for a stand alone that support direct fire is very minimal. You can use built in ignitor coil and do some wiring. The rest is back to the tuner.

 

[nan83]

nan83.. you forgot to add the cost for the ignition driver. :)

huhu... you buy evo coil... of coz you got the ignition module.... just run 2 coil set (4 unit of coil) & 2 unit ignition module ( oem evo run 2ch module) .... no need extra cost lah... :aetsch:

 

[speed2horizon]

huhu... you buy evo coil... of coz you got the ignition module.... just run 2 coil set (4 unit of coil) & 2 unit ignition module ( oem evo run 2ch module) .... no need extra cost lah... :aetsch:

Yeah. The power tr is just rm50/pc. Coil pack rm70...

 

[ashyu90]

Gt auto should know how to settle your problem. It better you bring your car there since the installation and tuning was done there. Your check engine light should on all the time because the is no signal received from the airflow, injector and ignition. That maybe the cause why the throttle butterfly keep closing at certain rpm which the ecu sense there is an error and it run into the safe mode by closing the throttle. You can fool the original ecu by putting something in between the cut wire so the ecu don't run into safe mode. You can put back the airflow sensor, install resistor to the injector wire and for the ignition wire i don't know yet how to do it.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

The simplest solution is change to throttle cable setup.

thankz for ur advice..im going to drive by wire...next week start project...send my car at millennium sunway...