My B20B project just get started

[gotboost33]

Dude...Crawling scooby also nvm la....At least got 4 door ma...My car now very headache la...Want to go shopping also need to think parking ramp clearance....THREAD HIJACK! F**K super fei lo

 

[super fei lo]

gotboost,

keep ur car go swap to k......
its a collector's item......
sell of ur wira & get a alphard....

y subie...??
unless u got 50k to spare to mod it.... :hmmmm:

 

[shiroitenshi]

About CR, you have to measure the volume of the dome and combustion chamber, can guesstimate based on ready specs,but some heads already milled when bought second hand, so sometimes it can be a little higher than initially thought. That's why measuring is probably the most accurate way to get it. The curious thing is that most mechs here deem it 'unnecessary'. when most high buck builders do it, even for their own race engines running specs they probably built dozens of times.

With most aftermarket pistons 84mm +2cc and below, if street spec, and with stock head (unmilled) and block, should be a little below 12CR with stock 89mm crank, but if running aftermarket cranks like 92/95mm, that number easily goes up to 12-13ish with the same piston.

You can also use the compression gauge to estimate compression, but it's a crapshoot because the numbers reflect how well your engine is sealing, not the compression. If you have a leaky 13CR engine, it may give compression readings of a healthy 11-12CR engine.

Example, a 11CR B16 with a tight ring gap gets 230, while a 11.8CR B20 with looser ring gaps get 245.

Really high compression engines with tight ring gaps can hit 300+, which is out of the range of most common compression testers mechs have out there. But the engine will heat up easily and given time, warp heads, lose sealing, seize, etc.

Anyway, for the rod stroke ratio, it's all about having a tall enough block and a piston with a wrist pin high enough. I haven't seen anyone using a piston with a wrist pin sitting right under the oil ring (not actually under, but close), but theoretically I think the engine should consume oil a bit. But that's theoretical, in practical use, I'm not sure the effects of having an oil ring sitting on the wrist pin hole.

But haven't anyone considered the losses associated with having high rod ratios? low rpm torque will be lower with those setups, which is all good if it's a race engine seeing high rpm, but for a daily driver seeing low rpms?

Thankfully the B20B has oodles of low end torque to sacrifice. I wonder if anyone has ever compared a B16A and B16B stock engine torques? Based on the rod ratios, the low end should be a lil worse for B16B due to it's higher rod ratio.

Anyway, SFL.
Considering the amount you put on your engine, isn't that extra expense of having proper engine management worth it? I mean, with simple management retailing like half of what your cams costs.. IMO, it's certainly a minor expense, isn't it?

Sure you can crank up the fuel pressure and play with the static timing, but in the end you'd end up with a very narrow powerband, and probably foul your plugs and rings running to rich. But if you're risking running lean, that's another matter, and another set of risks.

Your build though, so it's still your choice. Good luck with your build.

 

[super fei lo]

thanks for the suggetion...

currently im runnnin on a Vafc2,
everything is -40%, 30 %
running or a higher cc injector(gsr turbo)....
even the afc failes me...
the whole system is still runnning rich.....
im worries about melt piston too...and flyin valves...
mayb 2night im goin to check out a haltech..
hope it works....

now waitin for power enterprise timing belt....
hehe....

 

[D-IV]

You won't melt a piston by running rich. But honestly, look at a management system. Crome is cheap if others are not affordable... But you shouldn't be starting the car with untuned condition ya know, might wash off the rings and ruin things by running too rich.

 

[pencalat]

Wah u want to get haltech meh??
I got question, either we install haltech or hondata...
when cold engine can be start??
i mean if i left my car for 2 or 3 days...
coz some of my fren using haltech + high comp too.. i can see the misery when to start the ignition..
y ar??? pls help me...

 

[super fei lo]

starting problem...~!~!~!
im not so sure...
but my fren using power fc...
he didnt encounter this problem......
maybe the spark plug he use...

any1 which has experince with standalones,
pls dvise us...

HALTECH,.....
mana ada budget?....
easier to get a MSD...
hehe
looks cooler

 

[steadymatrock]

You on cold plugs? Is it easier to start when warm? I've used pfc and now playin around with hondata tuning cos i just bought it. Will get it tuned by better tuner with dyno after doin up the head. Like your case it could be tuning too.

 

[cukakula]

wey... SFL... i went to your workshop and your project still not moving yet???? don't chat to much la.... start your project now... everyone here is waiting....

 

[J101]

EMS nowdays has cold start enrichment menu.

Wah u want to get haltech meh??
I got question, either we install haltech or hondata...
when cold engine can be start??
i mean if i left my car for 2 or 3 days...
coz some of my fren using haltech + high comp too.. i can see the misery when to start the ignition..
y ar??? pls help me...

 

[pencalat]

Yah yah... got to korek tabung to get this hontakdak...
wait until got bonos lah.... headache headache!!!

 

[super fei lo]

wey... SFL... i went to your workshop and your project still not moving yet???? don't chat to much la.... start your project now... everyone here is waiting....

u went there??
wow...
now waitng for budget for more stuffs....
no money leh....
hahaha,
lookin for a spare cylinder head,any 1 can help me?
but pls dont qoute me flying price lo....
dont want to mod my HEAD....

no valve no spring okie....

thank you

 

[pencalat]

what cylinder head???

 

[cukakula]

i got one.... around rm100...... cylinder kosong.... good condition.....you want?????

 

[cukakula]

you know wat cylinder kosong????? gas cylinder....

 

[shiroitenshi]

Whatever management you use.. it's all as good as THE TUNER.

For extreme setup cars, esp. when you already ditch the IACV or any sort of idle control (FICD, etc)
you can use ignition and fuel compensation to compensate for cold start & idle, or if you're using those more expensive ones, even got a cold start/cranking map for those really cold days on No. 8 plugs. Even 9 and 10's plugs can be used if you can get a good cold crank map up.

That's why some people pay for 'imported' tuners. :)

Me, I'm too cheapskate for 'imported' tuners, so I learned to tune myself. :P

Futhermore, I tend to test stuff a lot, so if I pay an imported tuner each time I change a part.. adooi.

 

[super fei lo]

Whatever management you use.. it's all as good as THE TUNER.

For extreme setup cars, esp. when you already ditch the IACV or any sort of idle control (FICD, etc)
you can use ignition and fuel compensation to compensate for cold start & idle, or if you're using those more expensive ones, even got a cold start/cranking map for those really cold days on No. 8 plugs. Even 9 and 10's plugs can be used if you can get a good cold crank map up.

That's why some people pay for 'imported' tuners. :)

Me, I'm too cheapskate for 'imported' tuners, so I learned to tune myself. :P

Futhermore, I tend to test stuff a lot, so if I pay an imported tuner each time I change a part.. adooi.

thanks for the advise mate,
btw, any recomandation?
which is user friendly?
with reasonable pricing
do u think vafc + msd 6al will do the job?
im using ef wiring,cant do the timing advance even using emanage.....

 

[cukakula]

since this one cannot that one cannot....then sell off ur ef la.... what r u waiting for???

 

[shiroitenshi]

sfl, user friendly wise, I think the simpler is easier, but it is limited in functions.

As for VAFC, I don't mind it at all, but it's limited in the sense of how much correction it can put out without affecting ignition timing, sure, it can correct fuelling at low and part throttle, but its just really a MAP sensor manipulator, so it doesn't control ignition and fuelling directly. Really good for stock engine with light intake/exhaust mods, usually because when you modify honda exhaust system, the lower end will be rich, and the higher end will be lean, so the VAFC can correct that to a certain extent.

but other than that, I find them really lacking when using on non-stock engines because VAFC relies on the stock mapping of the ECU.

I haven't played with the MSD 6AL, so I don't know how flexible the ignition timing can be.

But B20B setups work really well only with standalones, because the stock ECU mapping just isnt good enough, even with minor corrections. With anything less like a piggyback, you can achieve good peak hp, but the mid range horsepower (the horsepower reading at 2-6K rpm will not be as good)

Injector control with standalones is also better. Even with 345cc H22A injectors, it's possible to make a B16/18C/B20B idle like a stock car. (not to mention faster to tune)

I'm not sure how your mechanic will manage with just VAFC because the honda ECU has ignition and fuelling comprensation/correction, and without running open loop, it's like tuning a fuel ratio that's never constant due to temperature changes. Tune today, get 14.7AFR, start up tommorow, it becomes 12.3 or some other number.

Most people don't know that for adjusting ignition timing, the 2 pin diagnostic/service connector needs to be shorted to disable compensation when adjusting ignition timing at idle. That's why when you get a timing light and test the timing for most cars, it won't be 16, or about 22 degs (with compensation)

but get the service connecter jumpered, time it at 16 degs, and no matter how many stock P30 B-series you do the same to, when jumpered, it will always read 16.

Now you know why some mechs adjust the ignition timing so many times, even though you only actually have to do it once... after swapping the belt, or removing the crank pulley for oil pump/etc service.

 

[pencalat]

sfl, user friendly wise, I think the simpler is easier, but it is limited in functions.

As for VAFC, I don't mind it at all, but it's limited in the sense of how much correction it can put out without affecting ignition timing, sure, it can correct fuelling at low and part throttle, but its just really a MAP sensor manipulator, so it doesn't control ignition and fuelling directly. Really good for stock engine with light intake/exhaust mods, usually because when you modify honda exhaust system, the lower end will be rich, and the higher end will be lean, so the VAFC can correct that to a certain extent.

but other than that, I find them really lacking when using on non-stock engines because VAFC relies on the stock mapping of the ECU.

I haven't played with the MSD 6AL, so I don't know how flexible the ignition timing can be.

But B20B setups work really well only with standalones, because the stock ECU mapping just isnt good enough, even with minor corrections. With anything less like a piggyback, you can achieve good peak hp, but the mid range horsepower (the horsepower reading at 2-6K rpm will not be as good)

Injector control with standalones is also better. Even with 345cc H22A injectors, it's possible to make a B16/18C/B20B idle like a stock car. (not to mention faster to tune)

I'm not sure how your mechanic will manage with just VAFC because the honda ECU has ignition and fuelling comprensation/correction, and without running open loop, it's like tuning a fuel ratio that's never constant due to temperature changes. Tune today, get 14.7AFR, start up tommorow, it becomes 12.3 or some other number.

Most people don't know that for adjusting ignition timing, the 2 pin diagnostic/service connector needs to be shorted to disable compensation when adjusting ignition timing at idle. That's why when you get a timing light and test the timing for most cars, it won't be 16, or about 22 degs (with compensation)

but get the service connecter jumpered, time it at 16 degs, and no matter how many stock P30 B-series you do the same to, when jumpered, it will always read 16.

Now you know why some mechs adjust the ignition timing so many times, even though you only actually have to do it once... after swapping the belt, or removing the crank pulley for oil pump/etc service.

Yesh... Another fact that makes me to change to standalone...
AaaaAA money money...