VTEC Newbie in need of some help

[fastclubman]

1) I have seen b18c block being mated with b16a or b16b head and was wondering what are the benefits of this setup? Will it produce more power through the rev range or just the top end? I believe this will increase the compression ratio of the engine but I could be wrong.

2) I have also read about b16a block being fitted with a b18c head. I am not sure whether this is possible but what are the benefits of doing this modification?

3) I see many ppl fit type-r cams whether its b16a or b18c, is this a worthwhile upgrade?

4) As I am planning to get a Civic fitted with a b18c engine, what should I look out for during inspecting the car or test driving it?

5) How do i know whether the fitted head AND block is from a type r model - b16b or b18c5r?

6) I have heard that the distributor of the b series engines are a weak link to the otherwise strong engine. How true is this and what can be done to avoid distributor related failures?

7) Any thing else taht I should know of?? he he he

I know there are a lot of questions and i will be grateful if someone could help me out with answering them.

Thanking all of you in advance.

fastclubman

 

[xxxx]

simple answers to ur questions..

1. yes, it'll produce more power n torque.

2. of course it's possible. it'll give u a slightly increase in power.

3. of course it's worthwhile. if not, why do u think ppl is willing to some ard 1k for the cams?

4. u should bring a mechanic along. the engine is not so important, wat is more important is the chasis of ur car...

5. it's easy to check the block, look for the original punched engine number on the block. as for the head, it depends on ur knowledge.

6. not so true. wat can u do? buy a new one.

7. a lot. haha...

 

[shiroitenshi]

6) I have heard that the distributor of the b series engines are a weak link to the otherwise strong engine. How true is this and what can be done to avoid distributor related failures?

Use aftermarket electronic ignition system, can throw away the distributor.
The reason distributor fails is that not many engines rev as high as the B-series vtec, so if your car revs up to 8K revolutions at max rev. the cams turns 4K revolutions, and the distributor is connected to the cam, so you can imagine how fast the rotor in the distributor spins. In a way, this results in more wear and tear. Comparably, most other engines only go up to 6.5-7K revs.

 

[shiroitenshi]

1) I have seen b18c block being mated with b16a or b16b head and was wondering what are the benefits of this setup? Will it produce more power through the rev range or just the top end? I believe this will increase the compression ratio of the engine but I could be wrong.

From what I know,
This setup came about when some people converted from type R to B20 block, and retain the type R head (supposedly it flows better, but only through testing with a flow measuring machine
Since they're left with a B18C block, they plonk down b16a head and sell it as a type R. Again, from what I learnt, this setup has less power than the complete B18C setup.

As for the B16B head, some claim that it has better flow (in a way, this is true, since the B16B cams have higher lift than the B18c)

Don't know for sure if the B16B head with B18C block results in significantly more power though, maybe other forummers can provide input.

 

[fastclubman]

xxxx,

thank you for your info.

shiroitenshi,

if the engine is spinning at 8k revs, surely the cams are also doing 8k revs. The timing belt runs through the crank and the cams at the same speed.

THe flow measuring machine or also known as a flow bench is definately required to determine those claims.

I suppose the B16B blocks are hand ported at factory and fitted with cams of different lift and duration which should enable a better flow and thus produce more power, i guess.

fastclubman.

 

[Spoonz]

got question here,
vtec engine components are made of aluminium right? thats why they are high revving engine (aluminium is lighter) compared to other engines like mitsu which is made from solid iron. correct me if I`m wrong......

(fastclubman, sorry cos I tumpang ur thread)

 

[shiroitenshi]

Fastclubman,

God! Thank you for pointing out my mistake!

I got the cam and crank term mixed up!
The crank turns twice the speed of the cam, which results in the said 'wear and tear' on the distributor.

Initially, I thought that cams rotate at the same speed as the crank too, but in actuality, by design of the engine, it's not so. It's something to do with the sizing of the gears, or the relative diameter of the crank pulley versus the actual crank rotation diameter (crank pulley diameter is NOT EQUAL to the crank rotation diameter)

I believe it is the same for all engines, regardless of type, since a cam lobe profile is timed according to the four stroke phase, with one quarter (108+/- degrees, actually slightly more than a quarter) for the intake stroke, and the other three-quarters for the compression, combustion and exhaust stroke (252+/-, also not exactly three quarters)
It wouldn't do to have the intake valve at full lift during the exhaust stroke, ain't it?
I think you can search the net for more info on this. (I couldn't find any, so I can't post a link here)
I seem to have confirmed this by learning setting up cams a while back, but its been a while since I practiced it, so I sorta messed up. If you have access to your engine's cams, you can test this fact out by rotating the crank. I think you'll find that the half a revolution of the crank results in one full rotation of the cam gears.


I can confirm definitely though, that the honda dohc engine cams spins half for each the crank rotation, or the crank turns half the speed of the cams, since I did base my knowledge on working on my honda dohc engine (specifically, the b-16A)


Still, making the mistake above has really made me feel stupid.

Sorry if it was misleading!

p.s. edited my earlier post... re-edited again due to own stupidity.

 

[J101]

i'll just add to this part, u can either :

- upgrade to a type-r(dc2/ek9) or ek4 distributor which is used but NEWER and IF possible use back its wiring loom, the ECU use your chosen ECU and harness.

or

- cheaper version : use the ULTRA MDI(japanese) system but they are meant for type-r distributors.

- expensive version : complete MSD kit (cables, cap, msd box and coil blaster).

too much high revving kills it. if the above mention alternative doesnt help so much, just change to a brand new rotor inside it.

6) I have heard that the distributor of the b series engines are a weak link to the otherwise strong engine. How true is this and what can be done to avoid distributor related failures?

Use aftermarket electronic ignition system, can throw away the distributor.
The reason distributor fails is that not many engines rev as high as the B-series vtec, so if your car revs up to 8K revolutions at max rev. the cams turns 16K revolutions, and the distributor is connected to the cam, so you can imagine how fast the rotor in the distributor spins. In a way, this results in more wear and tear. Comparably, most other engines only go up to 6.5-7K revs.

 

[xxxx]

fastclubman,

u r welcome.

shiro,

yup, it's the crank stuff n cams speed.

by the way, if i'm not mistaken, there's something more than port n polished of the type r head. but i need to double check first....haha....

 

[fastclubman]

shirotenshi,

i checked it out today, the cranks rotates twice for the cam to rotate once. Hence what you originally said is correct. If you are doing 8k revs (crank speed) then the cams are rotating at 4k rpm.

I have seen a lot of the cars with b series engines fitted are subjected to overhauls as in complete piston, rings adn bearings being changed. Almost most of the cars in the for sale sections esp with B series has been overhauled one way or another. Y is this so? Heavy thrashing or they just dont last due to the high revs? Typically how long does this engines last between rebuilds? 100k km?

Thank you all for your contribution so far.

fastclubman

 

[xxxx]

it depends on how the previous owner drove car....

Typically how long does this engines last between rebuilds?

- u can't have a answer for that questions becos everything is so subjective...

 

[c00lric]

Hi Sifus,

How do u we know that da distributor is giving up? Any pre symtoms?

 

[JINEIL2EN]

Hi Sifus,

How do u we know that da distributor is giving up? Any pre symtoms?

nop. or can be said like this, 5-10mins b4 it kong, u will suddenly feel that ur engine is jerk a feel time.....after tht...KoooOOOoong...:_:

 

[shiroitenshi]

shirotenshi,
I have seen a lot of the cars with b series engines fitted are subjected to overhauls as in complete piston, rings adn bearings being changed. Almost most of the cars in the for sale sections esp with B series has been overhauled one way or another. Y is this so? Heavy thrashing or they just dont last due to the high revs? Typically how long does this engines last between rebuilds? 100k km?

Thank you all for your contribution so far.

fastclubman

I give up! I'm confused now about cam timing!... ROFL! That's why I leave cam settings to the experts.

As for rebuilts, the 100K is the time you change the timing belt and water pump. It's generally known that 100K is the accepted safe interval between changes.

As for the piston and ring thing... It's also a trick to get more power out of B16A engine. Toss in B16B piston and cams, and you have more power. I don't think many people do rebuilts on the B-series, unless it's to obtain more power.

The only ones I've seen to have problems are the ones where the owner adjusted the rev limiter, or removed it entirely. Sometimes things break when stressed to the limit, no?

 

[shiroitenshi]

Hi Sifus,

How do u we know that da distributor is giving up? Any pre symtoms?

As far as I know, none that you can detect without observing the innards of the distributor.

You drive drive drive.. then engine dies.... no spark. Then... get out of car... and PUUSHH!!!
Of course, most people's B16A is already 11 years old pluslah! and most of these same people also replaced theirs with second hand units.. of course cannot expect them to last like new lah. Considering the abuse a distributor goes through, it's amazing that it's lasts as long as it does.

 

[shiroitenshi]

Duration is the term given to the amount of crank movement (in crankshaft degrees) that the lobe creates lift by pushing the lifter off the base circle. We’ll go over each of these specs to make them easier to understand. If you look at the size of a camshaft gear relative to the crank gear, you’ll notice that the cam gear is twice the size of the crank gear. This means that the camshaft spins at half crankshaft speed. To make it easier to understand cam duration, most cam specs are given in crankshaft degrees.
-Quoted from chevy hi-performance website.

Hmm.. I guess I was right the first time... Wargh!!! Two mistakes in a row... I must start working on my own engine more than just leaving it at the workshop since I tend to forget stuff after a while.

 

[ace79]

Distributor going dead symptoms : Engine will suddenly die off when driving ( It happenned to me while I was dusting off a balck EK4 at well over 160 kph! ), or the RPM would suddenly go up and down like f**k. WHen you r engine suddenly die while driving, you have to wait for a few minutes, then you can start the car again. I have found a solution done by a Malay guy over at Nilai 3 ( I myself don't have the time to drive over there yet ) , what he does is modifying the ori distributor into a external ignition type. A large number of VTEC guys have asked him to do the conversion, so it's safe to say, his mods work! Costs you less than RM 200.