come on renault win F-1 not proton... n btw just a fast one y daihatsu not winning any title but y so many ppls getting kancils, kelisa, kenari , kembara... n myvi ..... ? so if renault loss the F-1 how??? lucky minardi dun supply / manufactured car if not kantoi no one is getting... their car liao.....
savvy vs myvi
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si|verfish said:
dude...if im not mistaken.....citroen C1 and Peugeot 107 is the same car as toyota passo, boon, MyVi....so if C1 manage to get 4 stars....probably MyVi also can get 4....now...whoz tougher?
i x know la u guys, but 4 me i'm proud that our local homegrown boys n girls can develop car wth self identity. somethin not euro not japan but malaysian. same thing wth korean sephia, previous hyundai coupe. even little bit odd but it's their identity. but now hardla b'coz they hire italian studio 4 d design.
if got money 4 sure i'll buy savvy R3 4 my 2nd car simply b'cos x afford 2 pay for Satria R3, g2 R3 n srm R3. i tested savvy, so far i can say ths car is nice n R&H can now become proton's trademark. the quality improved. btw dont shoot proton 2 much coz they only applying business theory.
as 4 savvy vs myvi, i think that proton is not fighting wth perodua but Toyota.
think about this:
proton manufactures: almost 200k yearly vs another established manufacturer that sell million units yearly.
u can argue wth me but i'm looking from business view not from consumerisme aspect.
if got money 4 sure i'll buy savvy R3 4 my 2nd car simply b'cos x afford 2 pay for Satria R3, g2 R3 n srm R3. i tested savvy, so far i can say ths car is nice n R&H can now become proton's trademark. the quality improved. btw dont shoot proton 2 much coz they only applying business theory.
as 4 savvy vs myvi, i think that proton is not fighting wth perodua but Toyota.
think about this:
proton manufactures: almost 200k yearly vs another established manufacturer that sell million units yearly.
u can argue wth me but i'm looking from business view not from consumerisme aspect.
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I'd prefer it if everyone looked at the cars without thinking where they came from. Which means Proton, Hyundai, Toyota, BMW, etc. all on the same playing field. Which car would you rather have if cost wasn't an issue? If it isn't good enough, it just plain isn't good enough. Stop the stupid "Oh it is local, it is Malaysian" and "Oh they cannot compete with other big manufacturer". What? Is that all local manufacturers can aim for? Being substandard? Don't be foolish
i can understand why proton hardly grow in motorsport market.
even malaysian wont support malaysian built product..
This was same as alot ppl thinking" WAIT COUNTRY DO SOMETHING FOR US, BUT NOT LIKE JAPANESE WE DO SOMETHING FOR OUR COUNTRY "
motor sport ppl who after test drive myvi and savvy, they will tell which one is better. savvy and gen2 have alot room for modifying such as the siemen ecu by gen2, the fuel map and ignition map is rewriteable.. u will see ppl start to playing with it soon.
even malaysian wont support malaysian built product..
This was same as alot ppl thinking" WAIT COUNTRY DO SOMETHING FOR US, BUT NOT LIKE JAPANESE WE DO SOMETHING FOR OUR COUNTRY "
motor sport ppl who after test drive myvi and savvy, they will tell which one is better. savvy and gen2 have alot room for modifying such as the siemen ecu by gen2, the fuel map and ignition map is rewriteable.. u will see ppl start to playing with it soon.
Definitely the Myvi...I take build quality much into consideration..and Proton lacks quality..Also how sure is Proton the Renault powerplant is going to be efficient and error free. Like the Proton Waja 1.8...powered by a Renault engine, its production has been been discontinued due to many problems...Eventhough Myvi is pricier than the Savvy but its got great acceptable looks, good build quality and better performance! Hidup Perodua!mutanX said:
mt_ said:
Excuse me, can you elaborate more for the part in bold? Sorry for my poor english, but I found that I can't understand your writing.
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If some company in Malaysia sells shit for money, I think there might be some of you who will buy it, judging by the comments in here. Because it is Malaysian, we've got to support them. If you don't you're not patriotic. So we've got to buy shit, especially when it has got a Thundercat badge on it. I mean you got to do something for your country right?
This is what I think of this view - Load of rubbish.
This is what I think of this view - Load of rubbish.
the 1st time i saw the cuope n sephia i felt odd, try capturing what's on the mind of the designer. what the designer wanted to bring. at last i thought that hey!this is korea, their identity. of course they dont want 2 be like japs and euros or americans 4 d design. n i respect them! when u put side by side then u know this car belong to which country either: japs, korean, m'sian,italian or the bulky US. the own identity that i appreciate. its like when u dining in china of course u x want 2 eat nasi lemak but u want 2 try the traditional menu. if 1 2 makan nasi lemak better dont go lah.
the own identity show that we r capable n very great if can go global. the same thing if ZTH can be a hit in US,UK or whereeverlah. however that doesnt mean i buta2 support all the m'sian product.
i dont mind taking toyota, honda, nissan as same level to proton but in reality, proton is relatively small. last year making 700 million profit, but that's in RM, try to converted in USD, how much they untung vs the japs n euros. In terms of investment proton can go further but they r gambling wth our money, your dad, my dad, ur neighbour money that was kept in EPF. At the moment the r playing safe. it can b different story if proton is owned by 1 fella not a country project. rugi pun x apa, country still ok.
n silverfish, its ok man 4 u 2 describe all the weakness, b'cos we wouldnt know all the defect from only 1 side. u r playing a major role 2, remember that.
-respect-
the own identity show that we r capable n very great if can go global. the same thing if ZTH can be a hit in US,UK or whereeverlah. however that doesnt mean i buta2 support all the m'sian product.
i dont mind taking toyota, honda, nissan as same level to proton but in reality, proton is relatively small. last year making 700 million profit, but that's in RM, try to converted in USD, how much they untung vs the japs n euros. In terms of investment proton can go further but they r gambling wth our money, your dad, my dad, ur neighbour money that was kept in EPF. At the moment the r playing safe. it can b different story if proton is owned by 1 fella not a country project. rugi pun x apa, country still ok.
n silverfish, its ok man 4 u 2 describe all the weakness, b'cos we wouldnt know all the defect from only 1 side. u r playing a major role 2, remember that.
-respect-
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I don't think it is beyond Proton's capabilities to produce a world beating car. If they are commited to such a thing and pool their resources I believe they can make an impact - with a very good car. Not just good by Malaysian standards, but good everywhere. Something that can compete with the Japs and the Germans. You have to look further forward. What they are doing now is making cheap, mediocre cars that gives them fast returns, especially locally. They aren't selling much overseas. This isn't going to help establish the Proton brand. What they are doing is short sighted.
Cars used to be unreliable. People used to believe that because there are so many moving parts in a vehicle it is bound to break down every now and then. But then the Japanese came and showed the world that is not the case. That you can have a car that is reliable. They didn't go, "Oh I can't compete with the Europeans, they're established. I can't make a better car than them". They didn't give two fucks, they just shut the fuck up and went to build a better car.
Cars used to be unreliable. People used to believe that because there are so many moving parts in a vehicle it is bound to break down every now and then. But then the Japanese came and showed the world that is not the case. That you can have a car that is reliable. They didn't go, "Oh I can't compete with the Europeans, they're established. I can't make a better car than them". They didn't give two fucks, they just shut the fuck up and went to build a better car.
ya silverfish, its ok man 4 u 2 describe all the weakness, b'cos we wouldnt know all the defect from only 1 side. u r playing a major role 2, remember that.
-respect-
i agree wth u, its the same thing when comparing thing: however good standard u have u must compare wth ppl upstair x downstair, i get wht u mean.
i remember 1 story of soichiro honda when he entered US, even though honda was a hit, his still x proud of it saying that, the standard of honda wth US car is still far.!
n i can c that his dream is still can be seen on Honda. especially on the latest Accord.
n 4 the local thing, Honda San did mentioned, if u cant b no 1 in Japan u cant be no 1 in the world!
-respect-
i agree wth u, its the same thing when comparing thing: however good standard u have u must compare wth ppl upstair x downstair, i get wht u mean.
i remember 1 story of soichiro honda when he entered US, even though honda was a hit, his still x proud of it saying that, the standard of honda wth US car is still far.!
n i can c that his dream is still can be seen on Honda. especially on the latest Accord.
n 4 the local thing, Honda San did mentioned, if u cant b no 1 in Japan u cant be no 1 in the world!
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I vote for MyVi...he.he..he..got my car yesterday...happy with
what i have now.He..he..he..he.. :-)
what i have now.He..he..he..he.. :-)
If you are bothered and you are those who read and listen properly instead of just spouting baseless rubbish, then this might interest you:
http://paultan.org/archives/2005/06/14/negative-image-hurting-proton-sales/
Gives you and idea of how important the brand is to a car manufacturer. Consumers relate to the brand. There is always a certain list of characteristics attached to the brand. What do people think of when they see BMW? How about Toyota? What about Ferrari? These companies will make turkeys everynow and then but they will get away with it because they have a solid, reputable brand on their cars.
What do people think of when they see a Mercedes? In Malaysia, the Mercedes badge is nigh on impossible to shake. It still is the ultimate status symbol that somebody has made it. But even Mercedes is suffering ill effects of substandard products. About a decade ago, Mercs were known as cars that are of utmost quality. Back then, they were at the top of the JD Power customer satisfaction survey in America. Then the top brass at Mercedes decided that their cars were needlessly overbuilt and proceeded to increase profits by cutting corners. What happened? The quality of their cars dropped and in a decade later, they were in the last 10 of the same survey. Now they've finally realised the folly of their ways because it is starting to hurt the badge, the brand, the reputation the company was built upon. So they have cut down their profits in an attempt to ensure that their cars are being properly built once more. This is a perfect example of a company fucking up for being short sighted. Don't ever think your customers are stupid. Don't ever think you can build bad quality products and get away with it. You will feel the whiplash. Even for an established organisation such as Mercedes.
http://paultan.org/archives/2005/06/14/negative-image-hurting-proton-sales/
Gives you and idea of how important the brand is to a car manufacturer. Consumers relate to the brand. There is always a certain list of characteristics attached to the brand. What do people think of when they see BMW? How about Toyota? What about Ferrari? These companies will make turkeys everynow and then but they will get away with it because they have a solid, reputable brand on their cars.
What do people think of when they see a Mercedes? In Malaysia, the Mercedes badge is nigh on impossible to shake. It still is the ultimate status symbol that somebody has made it. But even Mercedes is suffering ill effects of substandard products. About a decade ago, Mercs were known as cars that are of utmost quality. Back then, they were at the top of the JD Power customer satisfaction survey in America. Then the top brass at Mercedes decided that their cars were needlessly overbuilt and proceeded to increase profits by cutting corners. What happened? The quality of their cars dropped and in a decade later, they were in the last 10 of the same survey. Now they've finally realised the folly of their ways because it is starting to hurt the badge, the brand, the reputation the company was built upon. So they have cut down their profits in an attempt to ensure that their cars are being properly built once more. This is a perfect example of a company fucking up for being short sighted. Don't ever think your customers are stupid. Don't ever think you can build bad quality products and get away with it. You will feel the whiplash. Even for an established organisation such as Mercedes.
thats bring me to a concern or question where the helll is the RM's tat proton involve on the R&D... ???? they always said they put how much RM's to R&D this n tat but the end product was still not up to sastifaction or realiable... 20years shud be enough for them to build aa car where is good enough to compete with other worldwide car manufacturers... such as realibility... QC...
ya right, the issue here is business strategy n yup for the merc is like that, if not mistaken from what i heard last week topgear. they spend almost 1billion USD to make their car good. so simple calculation if their profit is minus 1bill and they untung 4bill now be come 3 bill.
but i beleive proton do clockwise, if u sell with cheap plastic pun ppl buy then y 2 concern abt that?? beside that they invest a lot in R&H stuffs n b'cos of that they need to decrease on the other part to fit the approved budget allocation.
from ths point ppl can act n show really want 4 a car. as wht we can c now.
consumer + competition + law. will only make business ppl heat not by pity. that's y we can c that some of the proton's car only now got abs,srs n thing like that, y it happened 4 sure not b'coz of law or pity 4 ppl but seeing tht rival have done that.
as 4 perodua they r invensting on goodwill, nvrmind untung sikit at the moment but later ppl will always loyal.
the issue here is both co. want to make money but how they make it.
n 4 proton again, i beleive the savvy profit margin is higher than myvi which i beleive nvrmind if the sale figure savvy is 10000 vs myvi 20000 but proton wth higher margin is equal the profit of myvi. that's my assumption lah!who know.
as 4 the qc, if they can build a car i beleive they also can have great standard. but when come 2 business can't say lah. the procurement meeting n thing like that...
the thing is will proton slash their profit without affecting their sustainablity??
only competition will do, unless 2moro comes law that say interior plastic must be certain thin, certain width, only this material can be used.etc.
so that's y critics n complaints r important!
If proton ppl read this or bring ths to their meeting i wonder if they can hire me!hehehe
but i beleive proton do clockwise, if u sell with cheap plastic pun ppl buy then y 2 concern abt that?? beside that they invest a lot in R&H stuffs n b'cos of that they need to decrease on the other part to fit the approved budget allocation.
from ths point ppl can act n show really want 4 a car. as wht we can c now.
consumer + competition + law. will only make business ppl heat not by pity. that's y we can c that some of the proton's car only now got abs,srs n thing like that, y it happened 4 sure not b'coz of law or pity 4 ppl but seeing tht rival have done that.
as 4 perodua they r invensting on goodwill, nvrmind untung sikit at the moment but later ppl will always loyal.
the issue here is both co. want to make money but how they make it.
n 4 proton again, i beleive the savvy profit margin is higher than myvi which i beleive nvrmind if the sale figure savvy is 10000 vs myvi 20000 but proton wth higher margin is equal the profit of myvi. that's my assumption lah!who know.
as 4 the qc, if they can build a car i beleive they also can have great standard. but when come 2 business can't say lah. the procurement meeting n thing like that...
the thing is will proton slash their profit without affecting their sustainablity??
only competition will do, unless 2moro comes law that say interior plastic must be certain thin, certain width, only this material can be used.etc.
so that's y critics n complaints r important!
If proton ppl read this or bring ths to their meeting i wonder if they can hire me!hehehe
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drifterzzz said:
Just curious, I keep hearing ppl say proton here defect there got prob .. this loose that loose. here sound there nyek nyek nyek..
I realised that too. But are you guys saying perodua is solid in built? No nyek nyek sound? No prob? Not very familiar with Perodua.. but from the look, int/ext.... it look like it gonna break just as well as proton.
cheers
Crashvenom: Speaking for myself, I've been commenting on Proton not Perodua, so basically I did not exclude Perodua.
To respond to your comment though, I could see the gradual improvements of Perodua whereas from Proton, there is only dissapointment.
mt_: Actually Mercedes cut their profits from 3 to 1 billion. Means they are making 2 billion less.
I've this assumption that large local companies are run like the Malaysian government. The whole organisation is obese and fat. Largely inefficient and uneffective. Lots of deadweight. Money going to "wrong" places. Profit margin more important than products or customers. People working to enrich themselves instead of for the good of the company. And so on.
To respond to your comment though, I could see the gradual improvements of Perodua whereas from Proton, there is only dissapointment.
mt_: Actually Mercedes cut their profits from 3 to 1 billion. Means they are making 2 billion less.
I've this assumption that large local companies are run like the Malaysian government. The whole organisation is obese and fat. Largely inefficient and uneffective. Lots of deadweight. Money going to "wrong" places. Profit margin more important than products or customers. People working to enrich themselves instead of for the good of the company. And so on.
mt_: Actually Mercedes cut their profits from 3 to 1 billion. Means they are making 2 billion less.
------opss, sorry.tq.
I've this assumption that large local companies are run like the Malaysian government. The whole organisation is obese and fat. Largely inefficient and uneffective. Lots of deadweight. Money going to "wrong" places. Profit margin more important than products or customers. People working to enrich themselves instead of for the good of the company. And so on.[/QUOTE]
--------for this one, no comment lah, each govern. have their own agenda. hehehe, x want 2 have free publicity in newspaper. who knows?
As 4 perodua my family owns 2 models b4, might be getting another 1, x want to say la their probs, every car got their problem what?.
but i really like the dei-hat-se innovation.
------opss, sorry.tq.
I've this assumption that large local companies are run like the Malaysian government. The whole organisation is obese and fat. Largely inefficient and uneffective. Lots of deadweight. Money going to "wrong" places. Profit margin more important than products or customers. People working to enrich themselves instead of for the good of the company. And so on.[/QUOTE]
--------for this one, no comment lah, each govern. have their own agenda. hehehe, x want 2 have free publicity in newspaper. who knows?
As 4 perodua my family owns 2 models b4, might be getting another 1, x want to say la their probs, every car got their problem what?.
but i really like the dei-hat-se innovation.
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