microtech vs haltech

[nova]

Some ems allow several maps to be programmed and selectively locked. This allows Tuners' maps which is by right their intellectual property to be locked in while standard maps from manufacturer to be accessible. Please understand that real tuners spent hundreds of dynohours to come up with their maps. I sure as heck don't want some enterprising customer to start pirating the map I sold him.

The "intellectual property" is an interesting issue. One side of the argument is that since customer has already paid the tuner for his hard works on tuning, the "intellectual property" is now passed and rightly belongs to the customer. It is now the property of the customer and it is up to him as to what he does with it.

Tuning is not the same as writing a book or creating a commercial software or stuff that can be patented. Proper practice of tuning should be about getting the engine tuned in for the conditions specific to that one car only. It is not something that a tuner should mass produce, upload it onto any one similar vehicle ems that he is asked to tune, and charge his customer a fee. What will you feel if your car has the same tuning as your freind/rival's car of the same spec(but not necesarily in the same conditions) because the tuner just upload an old copy of his mapping collection to your ems and return the car to you after you pay him? You will surely feel dissatisfied and your car may also be performing lousier than your friend/rival's car and you probably want to get another tuner to redo the tuning for you. Or you might as well sell your ems and go for rechipping of your factory's ecu after all since you also cannot have access to the mapping contained in the chip anyway.:regular_smile:

I stand to be corrected and others' experience and opinion is welcomed:regular_smile:

 

[rollakid]

i agreed with nova, if and only if the map is tuned specificly on your car. Its like you drive your car to the tuner's premise, and he use whatever he had, skills and tools, to tune YOUR ecu. after you pay the tuner, whatever the map is in your ecu is YOURS, not the tuner's.

Its just like a software development company, the software is tailor made for your company's system, after the project finish, the developer will pass over the system, the source code, and the documentation, which let you choose how you want to maintain it, upgrade it, and whether you want to choose the original developer to do it or choose another software firm.

Its not like a comercialized software, like the microsoft office where it is sold off the shelves. If he design the fuel map on his own engine, like maybe the 4G63T for example. Then you go find him and ask for a "performance fuel map" or something, then he just directly load the ready made map onto your ecu and off you go in 15 minute, THEN he have the right to lock the map and not let you copy/access it.

That is what i think of "intellectual property", actually what i learn.. theorically.. in uni, majoring in software engineering. Not giving the right to access or manipulate the end result in a "customized" system after the "project" is one of the main reason cost of maintaining a software goes up, and thats bad.

heck, we might have an "ECU MAP CRISIS" a spin-off of the software crisis XD


--edit--
what if i throw motec into the picture? any views on motec? me just trying to learn also.. dun flame me XD

 

[insane_ian]

Ohh yeah rollakid...never did think of Motec..

wow i'm really all eyes now...

 

[rollakid]

and alot of other brands too.. tomei reytec, wolf, dtafast.. all fully programable standalone..

how about megasquirt?

 

[insane_ian]

whoaaa some of it never ever heard of of...
I'm learning...

 

[V8_nutter]

This thing about security password to unlock access to the maps has created untold tensions between customers and tuners. The tuners I have heard normally keep the password without letting the customers know. No problem if there is no trouble with the tuning. However, as soon as the customer is not satisfied with the service and the customer wanted a second opinion from another tuner, the issue crops up because the first tuner does not want or could not be bothered about giving out the password. May be this goes against "professional ethic" but as it goes, there is no writen codes of ethics for theses practicioners in the market unlike doctors who are governed by their professional institution and by the government licensing authorities.

So, if your ems has such a security feature, make sure you only have the password and your tuner cannot change your password. Your tuner may claim "concern" about you busybody go and change the settings inside without him knowing it and if anything goes haywire, he ends up being blamed. Well, the good side of having an unprotected ems to the tuner is that the tuner can also argue that since it is an unprotected ems,to be fair, there is no guarantee that the ems wont be acessed by anyone after the car gets out of the door. Eventually, it is still back to having an unlocked ems for the long term benefit of the customers and the tuners. Just my 2ct.:regular_smile:

Agree with you,,,
Some of the sellers "out there" lock the password for themself. I must say it's very unethical and selfish of them, cause we pay big money for those management. Yet in the end, we'll be arguing with them :baring_teeth:

The reason they do this was bcoz they want us to always tune with them, but in the real world some of them did "cincai" tuning, what an asshole.

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

No password on freedom,very pleased

 

[rollakid]

No password on freedom,very pleased

no use ler.. let me access them i also dunno what is the content T_T need study nihongo

btw, i look into some aussie tuning house, that sells haltec ecu, and they load it with base map for most of the popular engine and say "100% no password locking" means we are free to fiddle with the settings and access the map lar?

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

Haha..then go study a bit nihongo,hehe

 

[rcchong]

cruising to save fuel?

closed loop o2 is for people who do not want to tune their cruising and idling areas properly. If you do tune it properly (AND dont forget your temperaturec compensation tables) then closed loop o2 is redundant, infact it may be more beneficial to use open loop in this case, since most ems uses P+I algorithm, a small change will cause the whole damn thing to oscillate. With my aem, i turned off closed loop o2 for cruising.

In that regard, both microtech and haltech are both pretty similar, one MAJOR plus for haltech, is the GUI and the need (or lack of in haltech's case) for a dongle to tune/store maps.

AFAIK, both e6x and microtech units have built in map sensor, but with the looong... loooong vacuum hose transient response in MAP might be a problem, it wasn't when i was using microtech.

hi, I'm a newer then new newbie , can you explained a little bit more on
close loop P+I algorithm ? can a close loop narrow band o2 be tune to
stay lean like afr of 15-16 when cruising?can haltech do that ?
or with what you say for a properly tune cruising and idling map , it will be
more safe and economical to run on open loop?


thanks

 

[zaki]

P I algorithm is a correction method in control system. P stands for proportional, I is Integral. It is a part of PID (D = differential) control system. Most ECUs use PI to make correction to fuel delivery based on O2 sensor when cruising/idling.

The O2 gives voltage output to ECU. Based on this O2 voltage value, the ECU will increase/decrease fuel supply until the desired voltage is achieved (example: 0.5V). The `I' component in the PI allows some tolerance in the target voltage. So the end target would be like 0.45 ~ 0.55V.

 

[ecupro]

Zaki, very good indeed.
What car model and ecu you are using?

 

[zaki]

Zaki, very good indeed.
What car model and ecu you are using?

i'm driving a satria and megasquirt ecu but still retain the old stock ECU.

 

[ecupro]

Zaki, are you using megasuirt-I, for fueling, right.
Satia Na or turbo or supercharge?
Did you do on micro-code, flash the microchip, ( you must good in software, right )
What field are you in ? ( electronic, software, mechanic )
Final, can find a Si Fu here.
May meet you in one day...he..he..he

 

[Slipknot Fanatic]

After the checking the Haltech and Microtech website on their EMS. I still prefer Haltech compared to Microtech. Even though Haltech is more expensive than Microtech but in the long run its a good investment. As we all know Haltech has more functions than Microtech. Heard from my tuner that in order to get certain functions for a Microtech EMS you need to buy so many additional sensors which eventually will costs the same as Haltech.

 

[hattech-v]

good thread with good discussion.. totally agree with nova. the so called IP for the tuning shud belong to the customer. we pay them for the tuning job... unless if they did it for free..

zaki, can u help me to turn off my closed loop? i dun need it enimore.... kekkeeke

 

[zaki]

Zaki, are you using megasuirt-I, for fueling, right.
Satia Na or turbo or supercharge?
Did you do on micro-code, flash the microchip, ( you must good in software, right )
What field are you in ? ( electronic, software, mechanic )
Final, can find a Si Fu here.
May meet you in one day...he..he..he

yup, i'm using MSI. It has both fueling & ignition. The car is turbocharged, 4G63T. Basically i bought the complete unit for testing. That was the initial plan. Currently it is controlling the injectors and ignition. The stock ECU controls the idle motor. The firmware is pre-loaded but I have tested few versions of firmware. The development group keep you updated with new firmware.
I don't say that I'm good in software but it is something that I'm familiar with. My current job doesn't really need low level programming, maybe in future. My background is electronics but I'm involve a little bit in avionics. I think you are the Si Fu :regular_smile:

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

Freedom ECU runs PID for its feedback revision and correction

 

[Joeker]

Good info Zaki,

I came across the term "PID" in my field but I did'nt know wat it stood for.

Anyway, "PID" also used in plastic processing related machinery.

 

[ecupro]

Zaki, still wonder, are you using Megasquirtnspark-extra ? what i know is MSI only have fueling.
The MS-Spark, i think only support one chanel on ignition, how you do that ? Because twin coils system need two channels.
Tunning using note-book?
Please correct me if i am wrong on MS.
Wah....Aerospace project.....must be very precision.
Must get one day and visit you....he..he...he