Megasquirt

[kennethfong]

yo cipan,

from the other microtech thread, u've also mentioned on maf-translator and pro models, i've previously emailed to all fullthrottlespeed.com's distributor which sells MAF products, and all of them replied me with a vote of no confidence to get it worked on GSR (which is plain stupid i mean Evo's n
GSRs are running karman too!!) also emailed broschur racing from US, and the real pros there replied me with the same answer too, disappointed..... however some of them recommended me the PRO models which is universal (i know it's universal but the price also doubled than the normal specific MAFT) which both of these are still piggyback like microtech mt4 models....

there are some piggies that could deal with what i want: hks vpc, MAP ECU, and others...

ok back to main topic, if getting an MS, i'll definitely go for V3 board, how much you sell? i'm ok if i get the complete components and solder it myself, but afterwards i'll need to take the whole thing down to see you, also please PM me your charges and whether it includes dyno tuning....

pls also tell me what are the limitations for this MS? n u mentioned that for the air cond idling, i know it won't be as good as stock, but i just want a stable idling not lower than 800 rpm and not higher than 1k rpm should be fine, i assume it should have the option of us inputting the idling setting too?? basically i need to compare the pros n cons with other competitors normally used in msia like microtech, haltech, pfc, hks fcon (other managements like aem ems is ok not to mention as i dun thing anyone is using one here).........

on the other hand, i'm now also researching on APEXI power fc too whether the default map is available for my gsr....

 

[cipan_supercas]

When you said GSR and 4G93, they just get confused between the 4G63 they have and understand. To be safe, they'd rather said that MAF-t is not going to work with your setup. What will happen if you can't make it work with your car while they have said it will? They can't give any advise either because they don't understand 4G93T.

If you want to go for MS, opt for MS-I. either v2.2 or v3 is no different. Only the injector control hardware is different. No problem if you use a high impedance injector or low impedance with resistor pack. However v3 have a better injector protection circuit. The choice is yours. MS-II is not yet running at it's full steam and is not suitable for GSR-t which is running wasted spark. It's still under development in alpha stage but MS-I is ready for all cases and it's proven to work fine.

When ordering MS, you need extra IGBT component to run the extra coil channel. Other than that, you can choose either to use the std. map sensor or 4 bar map sensor with barometric correction. You also have to choose either you want to use the stock coolant temp sensor or their GM cts. You also need the open pod air temp sensor for turbo application plus the bung to be weld on to your intercooler piping.

summary of parts needed for GSR-Turbo.
1 MS-I kit with case.
1 pc VB21 igbt.
1 pc coolant temp sensor.
1 pc intake air temp sensor with bung.
1 pc 4 bar map sensor. (2.5 bar map sensor is included with the order you don't have to order the 4 bar map sensor if 1.5 bar pressure is more than enough to run your engine).

You also need some extra components that you can buy cheaply here in Jalan Pasar for some mods in the assembly. (Some tricks of the trade to make it work for your GSR-T) and also some extra enhancements such as shiftlight, tachometer, launch control, full throttle shift etc., if you want to activate it.

A/C control is optional and you can find those components locally. Worry about that later. Most of the time you don't need it because it can be compensate with proper mappings for idle.

Limitations:
What do you expect from a stand alone? Usually no limit but you can program it to have the limitations such as rpm limiter, boost limiter etc. You can even control NOS with MS if you want. You can also fit that ricey MIVEC head and use MS to take the command of everything. what more can a standalone ecu do?

p/s=a demo vid for viewing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8NqFl0qzBM

 

[kennethfong]

cipan,

great info dude, must go down to c u some time when i'm available (i'm in penang) but dun b surprised when u c my car everything is super damn sleeper look....

anyway, i have problems viewing the youtube video, can't watch them longer than 10 seconds....

at first i mentioned unreliable MS is due to it's still in developing stage and we've got no one here in msia (that i know) to troubleshoot if there's anything wrong, if i were to get a readily made microtech haltech fpc hksfcon, i would not pay a cent if i can't get it right provided i purchase install n tuned from the same workshop....

i'll be checking on which version of MS-I is good for my liking on the MS site, in the meantime could you pls tell me how much would royal msian customs charge for additional tax?? i heard u mentioned somewhat around 40%?? that expensive? what if i ask them to mark the item as free gifts or faulty parts return for warranty??

i guess ur the PIONEER of MS in msia here, how long u took to tune this up for yourself properly??

cheers dude

happy motoring

 

[GT20v]

hei cipan....
is that car is one of your project????
superbly done....

u got pm bro...:)

 

[kennethfong]

cipan,

i've checked the differences between the two MS-I and MS-II, seems like ms-ii is much better in everything, but could u pls confirm whether the wasted spark system is the only system supported by MS-II??? so which means my gsr is running on multi coil right???

i read bout the router board, when will this be available?? i'm sure if this is out it could be used for any ignition sensors....

could pls guide me to MS-II setup if this is possible?

 

[cipan_supercas]

MS are under constant dev. It can be better from day to day. When MS started 5 years ago, it can only control fuel but not spark. Now it can controls both. It's a fully standalone.
MS-I are in the market much longer than MS-II, therefore it have developed further. MS-II are just in the phase of evolving to wasted spark etc, and it's not stable yet. Don't be fooled by the fact that MS-II have better processor and bigger memory. If you can run MS-I with equal performance, why should you be worry about that? You fancy newer item? lol. MS-II still have hiccups unless you are running distributor config. There are a lot of features that you are not going to use either, so don't worry about that.
Anyway, when MS-II is stable, you can upgrade the processor at any time with a little sum of extra money if you feel you need that. At the moment go for MS-I and it's cheaper too. I used that with no problem either.
Router board:
You don't need that to run your GSR and they don't even know when the item will be ready. maybe tomorrow, maybe 5 years more.....

The royal customs charge 43% of tax and that total the price of bought items and the courier fee. That's why I am afraid to order it for you because the tax is really expensive. Maybe you have some way to dodge with that... I don't know. For me, I just pay it. It belongs to the govt and I hate corruption.

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

Bro cipan,can u explain more on the 'unstable' part of MS.What will it cause to daily operation of the engine,and the problems that will occur because of its unstableness,thanks

 

[cipan_supercas]

look here for example:
http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?t=22435
and here are what still undergone with MS-II:
http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?t=22446

those guys are the software programmers/coders for MS.

Hardware wise, there are no issue with it and as I said, if you are running distributor, it's ok. But if you want to use different configuration, then MS-II is not 'ready' yet. It may take more time and there are no guarantee that any problem arise from it will be adress at present. Remind you that it's still at alpha stage. If you are brave enough to face any circumstances arises from any software unstablities, then you are into it but to me that will be fixing MS for someone else, my answer is no. I expect a good hassle free results. So are the users. However, if it were to be a spare car that we can play around and you are able to work around it yourself, then go for it. It's fun to have problems and overcome it. But it's not funny when the unit that I fix for a person living 250km away giving me a call in the middle of the night asking me to help them fix a little hiccup introduced by unstable software. Let it be solid....

Just put ourself as a common users. We only use what's given but if you are able to write codes yourself, then I'll be very please if you can help the community speed up the development and adress those problems.

The choice is actually yours, but if you select an unsuitable product, than you have to face the trouble of how to overcome it. To my opinion, select a product that is known to be good and functional.

 

[lozo]

wan has gone efi's. huhu

 

[EG9]

Very interesting topic. Initially I plan to run MS on my 4AGE 16V powered car too but finnaly end up with Freedom due to not that much hassle on the wiring and it come as complete unit.
If I not manage to sell off my the other car at desire price, may be will decide to give a try to MS on my the other car. I have been reading MS forums for quite sometime and find this topic is very interesting due to the forumers are M'sian and can get better help if stuck with the project half way.
Keep it rolling..... ..... .... .... ...

 

[cipan_supercas]

MS is diy, while others are commercial product. If you're fond of doing yourself to venture into something new and build some knowledge from it, MS is the answer.
It's not only the tuning that you have to take into consideration when using MS unlike the commercial units but you are learning some fundemental electronics, understand how efi works, how the software works etc. so to make your MS a fun to learn base. The only problem that's usually bother most are the impatient feelings. Many tries to complete their project in no time and easily get frustrated even with a slightest glitch.
Whatever it is, if anyone of you ordered MS and have a shivvering hands to assemble those, then I can do it for you. I have all the necessary equipments and tools to assemble and fix your problems. Welcome.

 

[ecupro]

cipan_supercas,
Oh man, finally, someone in Malaysia have order the MS and working on it.
No bad at all.

What car and engine are you driving ? ( sorry to ask,he..he..he)
Do you need to install crank wheel ? ( say 36-1 tooth )
Are you a prgrammer ? ( at least, i know you have electronic back ground, right )
Can i can down and visit you on some day ?

Good Luck.

 

[cipan_supercas]

cipan_supercas,
Oh man, finally, someone in Malaysia have order the MS and working on it.
No bad at all.

What car and engine are you driving ? ( sorry to ask,he..he..he)
Do you need to install crank wheel ? ( say 36-1 tooth )
Are you a prgrammer ? ( at least, i know you have electronic back ground, right )
Can i can down and visit you on some day ?

Good Luck.

Hey man, nice to chime in.

1. I'm driving 4G61T in Saga.
2. No need to install crank wheel.
3. Not really in software but hardware.
4. You're welcome, and for your info, I've already saw you a few years back in Ipoh to deal as your dealer for your humble ecu, but.... (let's talk behind the curtain or we can yumcha and talk about that face to face when you have the time to come over to KL again)....

 

[ecupro]

cipan_supercas,
Are you using MS Extra ?
Emmm...., 4G61T ( just like mine but in white Wira ), are you using twin coils ( or twin ignitor ) ?

Are you using the "daughter" board ?

yumcha, no problem in old town "Kopithem" ( Ipoh ).

Please sms to me as least i have your phone number, right!

Sorry to ask so many question!

Good Luck.

 

[cipan_supercas]

'Extra' is just the code needed to run fuel and ignition. I run the std 4G61 twin coil packs without the ignitor and without daughter board.
check your pm.

 

[phat7]

excellent info there cipan_s. I've followed MS forums previously as i find the people there more technical and they enjoy sharing information. WIth regards to tuning , what is your advise? i'm familiar with afr's and knock and detonation, but what interests me more is timing. Could you perhaps give us some insight. I've got a chart which i use with my wideband for target afr's and i plug in actual afr's. Its a simple spreadsheet that i came up with and it tell's me adjustments-voltage (i use a pfc) Timing is a concern and i would like to understand more. If you're free please lets meet and i'd like to hear your take on the whole timing factor. Thanks in advance mate.

 

[ivan78]

i order MS2 V3 kit from http://www.diyautotune.com/ . cost 249 USD. For the tax purpose, actually you can refuse to pay and visit the customs office at KLIA. then argue with them about private using. and pay undxr txble. cost me RM100 which is cheap. so total up plus shipping around RM12++.
its very simple, only take one night to assamble. but i regret to buy MS2 cause still not supporting waste spark. been wait for nearly 1 year. will plan to buy or down grade to MS1.

 

[cipan_supercas]

phat7:
Timing are dynamics. You can use your timing chart as a guide and tune from there. If you use brake dyno, then you can have a better plot for more power and conservative knock on your timings (The dyno shop usually also supply me the knock detection equipment when using their facilities). For me, I usually use the stock timings that I can read form the chips and start with that as the base (for most mitsu cars) and start from there to improve. Usually, the stock timings are pretty close and good.
AFR adjustments are pretty easy if you have the right tools.

ivan78:
Lucky you been able to argue for a lower tax but not me. I've imported several units but yet to get a lower tax for it.
Since you have bought that MS-II, then you can try their alpha software to tune you wasted spark system and ready to face any consequences of frustrations.
Bad idling is one of them, but try to overcome (yourself) or let me have a look at what you have done with your unit and try to run your car.

Here's the link:
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/ms2extra/files/alpha/ms2extra_Sept_03_06a_alpha.zip

Downgrading to MS-I is another option and is guaranteed to work alright with wasted spark. That's whay I always recommend MS-I for wasted spark at the moment unless you're running distributor. Furthermore, MS-I is cheaper.

 

[ecupro]

cipan_supercas,
You quote :
" 'Extra' is just the code needed to run fuel and ignition. I run the std 4G61 twin coil packs without the ignitor and without daughter board."

Bro, What i know is, MS-I only for fueling. How do you do that for the ignition ?

and you alos mention on IGBT. Are you going to use only one channel from MS-I and with some circuitry, and fire up the IGBT ( with twin coils ) ?

Or should i call you..he...he...he

Good Luck.

 

[cipan_supercas]

Basically, MS-I is fuel only but 'extra' will enable it to run ignition too. You have to reprogramme the microprocessor to run the code.
You also have to mod the IGBT to enable it to run your 2, 3,4,5 or 6 twin coil packs (wasted spark system). Of course, since we are talking 4G61 here, we only need 2. These packs are indepently controlled by the processor. We can also mod it to run 'coil on plug' with individual coil to each plug.

see the link here:
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#4g63

What differs from yours? Mind to share?