Intercooler Spraying

hehe.. aiseh.. danny now they wont steal defi's redi :(
i use Autogauge defi look alike :( wawawawawawawawa
hehehe.. :D i tink i will just spray one thin thin thin layer man.. :D not so thick until cant see laa.. will be visible but not at nights heheh
or maybe i should just put a black wire mesh infront of it :D
 
boggy, phase change or peltier can go as low as -40 celcius or even lower... everything will be frozen la...hehehh
 
with a correct current feed, you could prevent freezing.

imagine the nice cool air....all waiting to be combusted. u know u want it :lol:
 
Gold plated IC :o :lol: ... Jin bro... ya man go el natural leh .. ur bumper is big enuf to show it off!! Dun want to be a target, hide all your meters and electronic gadgets .. btw, no wan dare kacau you wan!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
danny, i dont mean to be a smart alec, but i suggest you read through ur books again. copper doesn't dissipate heat slower than aluminium. this is a myth.

You think copper disipates slower than aluminium cause copper is more dense than aluminium. if you were given 1 lb of copper and 1 lb of aluminium, aluminium would perform better only because you could have more surface area. if you were given the same size (not weight) copper would perform better, dissipation rate or whatnot is not an issue where forced convection comes into play. like i said earlier, dissipation rate probably aluminium would be better in natural convection, i dunno, never played with that in my uni projects. in forced conve, main property would be the thermal conductivity, copper wins aluminium by a large amount, with silver being a lil better than copper

heatsinks have copper base and aluminium tops because Copper has better thermal conduction than aluminium, you could probably atribute this to its more densely packed atoms. so, cpu cores are only so big, and you'd want to spread the heat over as much surface area as you want, this is why they use copper plates. another reason would be the weight, making a copper heatsink is extremely costly too as it has a tendancy to snap drill bits as its soft and tends to jam up drill bits.


as for plating a metal, think of it another way; a cow (base metal) pulling a ferarri (coated material). coating serves as another layer in which heat has to travel over. however coating a thin layer probably wouldn't hurt, instead might be more beneficial i.e in terms of corrosion and stuff.

as for tecs on intercoolers... not very efficient for the relatively small amount of cooling it provides, phasechanging the ic directly oth lol... but you'd need a whole other set of cooling loop
 
i think some ppl has got it it wrong bout black being highest absorber of heat.
its actually light energy. if u shine light on black surface, its likely to get hottter and quicker than other colors. however if exposed to heat (not light) wave... it makes no diff which ever colors.

for the intercoolers, its not exposed to any heat. the only heat it will be getting is from the atmospheric air, which isnt really hot at all. furthermore exposure its on the inside of the intercooler passage where air passes. additionally on the outside the i/c gets exposure on the fins and will dissipate heat even more quickly if it has a rough surface like a layer of matt paint. so there is no light energy involved. black, silver or any other color on the outside of the intercooler there is no diff. probablly flat balck paint will have n advantge becos the matt finishing is actually tiny uneven surface which acts like a heat sink. 2 stroke bikes exhaust pipes are also flat black.

so spraying flat black not only makes the i/c look good but its also better.
 
evolution, flat black is better? how so in what condition?

have you read what danny and i said about spraying?

intercoolers are "exposed" to heat. the charged air is significantly hotter than the ambient air, thus heat will conduct to the fins to the air

roughing up the fins yes, it can give you increased cooling by increased surface area and causes the air flowing over it to be more turbulent, but you dont do it by spraying a layer of paint over it, you could if u want, bead blast it/sand paper it lol but u'd be lucky if u can feel/measure any gains
 
wah.. i started the topic for normal anwsers :(
now all i see so scientific man hehehehe :D
ZTH lots of smart guys eh :)
 
dolly, copper only absorbs heat better than aluminium, it does not dissipate heat as well as aluminium, neither is it a myth. If your argument that copper is better in both absorbtion and dissipation, it would perform better than a copper base/aluminium fin combination, not taking cost into consideration. Correct?

Well, here is a very simple proven test comparison why aluminium is used mainly due to its better heat dissipation properties . 2 heatsinks which has the same design are produced.
1) full copper (SLK800)
2) copper base with aluminium fin (ALX800)

The results :-

http://www.gruntville.com/reviews/heatsinks/thermalright_alx800/page3.php

The heatsink which uses the best of both properties ie. copper having better heat absorbtion/conductivity as the base & aluminium having better heat dissipation, wins.
 
hehe .. danny using his OVERCLOAKING CPU HEATSINK to proof :D
ok.. i tink the intercooler can see abit only la :) here is the updated picture
 
danny, main cooling effect here is forced convection, and the main property in motion here is conduction, copper is nearly 2x better than aluminium. copper wins.

copper dissipates AND absorbs better than aluminium. why? thermal conductivity! ppl say aluminium dissipates better than copper why? like i said copper more dense = stores more energy (assuming same volume for both metals). if you were to say "well okay how about 1lb vs 1lb copper vs aluminium?" now think, how much more surface area would aluminium have over copper now? so long story short you notice, hey aluminium is cooler than copper after 10 secs, and you conclude aluminium dissipates faster. Wrong :(

you show me that review and i ask you then, what is the accuracy/precision/consistency of their thermal probes?

did you know that multiple installations of heatsinks can lead to a significant difference in temperature change? thermal paste application consistency??

also your example is a poor one, go back to specifications page... now take a look at the surface area the alx has over slk? also notice "super thin aluminium fins for maximised dissipation" that and in itself is not an apples to apples comparison. Thin aluminium fins means a smaller thermal resistance to air, of course then, if you compared a thicker fin, but better conduction, it could go either way. but by making thinner fins, you increase SURFACE AREA thus allowing more conduction of heat

i hear this all n all the time in this forum that forum etc etc. MYTH. forced convection = conduction. much like electrical properties. think voltage as thermal difference, thermal resistance as impedance. all in series. think of all the little effects that add up as inductance/capacitance etc that adds/subtracts to impedance and viola a good analogy.

infact when doing calculations for thermal resistance/exepcted temperature at one layer or the other, the method of calculation is very similar to using v=ir - of course in a situation where forced convection is the major player.

hehe sorry about sidetracking alot jinkl
 
jinkl maybe u can spray the side of the I/C and leave the fins alone.
nice car dude.

:D
 
Properties of copper vs. aluminium

Thermal Conductivity
@ 0 - 100°C
Al 237 W m-1 K-1
Cu 401 W m-1 K-1

Specific Heat @ 25°C
Al 900 J K-1 kg-1
Cu 385 J K-1 kg-1

the above are the properties of copper and aluminium. 1) correct, there is no argument that copper conducts heat better. 2) Looking at the specific heat properties, Al is better at holding heat, thus better dissipation when more than twice the amount of heat can be dissipated over the same area.

dolly, the alx has thicker fins even when compared to the slk800, eventhough it is supposed to have thin fins. the slk800 has larger total surface area (although same size, it has thinner and more fins). Next time when u're around I'll show u both of them side by side. In fact, due to the sucessful combination of copper & aluminium the latest range using these combinations much lower temps compared to full copper designs, averaging 5-10 celcius lower.

jinkl, nice job, if u wanna hide the intercooler more, just put a grill to cover the intercooler area. So is your monster ready to terrorise the roads?
 
haih heheh

danny danny, like i said please dont show me examples of you testing heatsinks with temperature probes stuck in socket, taped next to it etc etc when there are so many variables that you cannot account for. one of the reason why they departed from full copper/ full aluminium i have stated. until thermalright makes two identical heatsinks, same fins etc then its ok to use it as an example. btw did u know that sometimes too tightly packed fins would be detrimental to thermal performance in certain cases?

go take a look at _All_ waterblocks and stuff. copper. i am not sure if you are familiar with cathar's lrww blocks because...

...there are 2 modes of heat transfer going on when cooling umm lets say ur heatsink/ic/etc. conduction, and forced convection, and there two main modifiers, conductivity and velocity of liquid (or air). the higher these two are the better. this is why dangerden/cathar have even gone to great lengths to make a full SILVER block. silvers conductivity is slightly better than copper. if aluminium would perform better, trust me everyone would be using aluminium since it would be sooo mucchhh cheaper, and easier to make.

why many ppl think aluminium dissipates better is because of its emmisivity value. but this is only valid for radiation.

here found this on google good read for you http://www.coolingzone.com/Guest/News/NL_FEB_2003/ATS/ATS_Feb2003.html
 
You've misunderstood already, I didn't say aluminium conducts heat better than copper, it only releases heat faster. From the heat properties posted earlier :-

Specific Heat @ 25°C
Al 900 J K-1 kg-1
Cu 385 J K-1 kg-1

* shows that it can hold more than double the heat compared to copper, thus the ability to hold more heat = the ability to release more heat. This a fact, not merely my opinion.

The reason I compared both Thermalright heatsinks is to show you that although copper absorbs heat better than aluminium it does not release heat as fast, even with 2 similar designed heatsink and the copper having larger surface area.

Even from your link, it was mentioned 'Optimally designed Aluminum heat sinks meets or exceeds thermal performance of Copper or Copper based heat sinks'.

As for Cathar's blocks and any water block for that matter, almost 100% of the time copper is used. The main reason - it absorbs heat much better than aluminium & the cost difference isn't too much compared to silver. Since water conducts heat much faster than air, it compensates and aids copper's poorer heat release properties. copper + water combination has the best of both worlds ie. very good heat conductor (copper) & very good heat release (with the aid of water).

This same cannot be said about air cooling since there is no water to aid copper's poor heat release. That is why when copper is used for any heatsink related product, there must be a very fast fan or air blowing onto it to help release heat.
 
I remembered a lot of modders in australia, who did up NA turbo projects, had their intercoolers powder coated black! to make the authorities unaware. But i am not sure what do they mean by powder coated, and this process seems to be applied to rims too, they powder coated it white. Anyone has any idea what a powder coated means?
 
here's the explanation of powder coating from powder coating institute :-

Powder coating is an advanced method of applying a decorative and protective finish to a wide range of materials and products that are used by both industries and consumers. The powder used for the process is a mixture of finely ground particles of pigment and resin, which is sprayed onto a surface to be coated. The charged powder particles adhere to the electrically grounded surfaces until heated and fused into a smooth coating in a curing oven. The result is a uniform, durable, high-quality, and attractive finish.
 
nicely explained by everyone :)
danny: no la man.. monster still sleeping.. hehe turbine problem.. discovered drive shaft and gearbox also leaking :(
 
danny, look at the graphs towards the bottom, thermal resistance for copper is consistently better than aluminium, for 100% same design, copper will always win. period. no questions on this, its not because one releases heat/absorbs heat better, its only because of the CONDUCTIVITY (please understand this) which is extremely important in forced convection

one thing you failed to show in ur comparison is the velocity (and flow rate) of the air through the fins. thinner copper fins could cause more resistance compared to thicker, more spaced apart fins; reducing airflow through the fins. Also, the design isn't optimal, with coppers much higher conductivity, you'd want a thin/short fin or fat/tall fin.

this is not an apples to apples comparison, and thus you ahve showed nothing. the link i have given u have the same design, and copper being almost always better. they said yes its possible to make aluminium ehatsinks as good, when u optimise the airflow through fins, which is easy since its much easier to machine aluminium. but copper would be better if you optimise it then.

water has a higher specific heat compared to air, and i'm sure you know the meaning. this is why its a better coolant than air. it doesn't compensate anything, instead makes heat removal better.

concentrate on the thermal resistance graph. this is the graph that allows u to see a difference, i'm sure i dont need to explain thermal resistance to you. the results they found, speaks for themselves.

cathars block uses copper yes because it absorbs, conducts and thus conducts the heat to the water better than aluminium. water/air/liquid metal this will always be the case.
 


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