Battlefield: Sabah

[papagoines]

We did ask our customer who is a big shot in the army (our company maintain part of their IT infra) regarding this matter... they say that they already mobilized, only waiting order from the Commander-in-Chief...

Politics aside, the govt still want this to resolve without any foreign intervention. Remembers, apart from the current Sultanate of Sulu's claim over Sabah... Phillipines also have unresolved claim over Sabah.... any wrong move on our end, could be the salvo they need in their claims

---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------

Malaysia love being the good neighbour...

This event showed to the world and us...
Other country doesn't respect or scared on our Malaysian authorities/force etc.
Let's say if this thing happen to SG... SG will take immediate action by wiping this from the map.
Or they will return the favor by invading them back...

The Philippines, already study our soil and authorities for sometimes.
Our authorities will take for granted for almost everything except about money.
This weakness been manipulated by them...

 

[links]

For anything related to border disputes or invasion, quick and deadly response proof to be the only way to solve it in long term.look at Russia, the japs not even dare to make noise over the northrn islands while stiring up fire with korea and china.

U act soft, your neighbour will not respect you. We all love peace and harmony but do remember it is not granted. Just give th3 invader a hard blow and do some PR after the shit with phillipines. Make sure they know we r friendly but not serious when ppl try to make fun on us.

 

[ixeo]

if ATM take action, curfew order will be issued. if this invasion prolong until coming GE, election cannot be held at Sabah and it will lead to a loss to BN. Therefore there is a high chances for PR to take over Putrajaya.

So what is more important? The sovereignty of the country, or the sovereignty of Barisan Nasional?

Country first, before ANY government or party. I am patriotic. It appears that Barisan Nasional is not.

pa·tri·ot·ic (ptr-tk)
adj.
Feeling, expressing, or inspired by love for one's country.
patri·oti·cal·ly adv.

Love for one's country, NOT GOVERNMENT

We sent in VAT69 and UTK agents, who have lots of experience in jungle warfare and handling the communist insurgency, not the regular police in patrol cars or those manning roadblocks. Even their weaponry is on par or more advanced than the ATM foot soldiers. We are not like US troops who went charging in most of the times like an injured rhino. We always practice diplomacy and do info gathering first, judging all possible options and calculate all the risks. If you recall in the Al-Maunah case back in 2000, police eventually called the Maunah member's relatives to beg them to surrender. The psychological warfare tactic worked well. That is just one example. The situation is different this time around.

If we straight away send the army backed by air support from TUDM jets, of course the invaders will be wiped out, along with several hundreds of villagers and innocent folks. It will be seen as an excessive show of military power by other countries, mainly by our neighbours. This will also backfire later when the militants' family and comrades in the Philippines seek revenge by launching more guerilla attacks on Sabah.

By sending in the police instead of the military, we were sending the message that we want to solve the matter by diplomacy and prevent loss of lives. Unfortunately, this is not the case for the militants.

I guess now that it can't be solved by diplomacy, our security forces will go all out on them.

These are not communists. These are FOREIGN INVADERS. You seem more familiar than me regarding matters of national security, please correct me if I am wrong.

Function of police:
The police are a constituted body of persons empowered by the state to enforce the law, protect property, and limit civil disorder. Police forces are often defined as being separate from military or other organizations involved in the defense of the state against foreign aggressors

Nobody ask you to send in jets and bombard the area. Just send in the army with tanks and heavy vehicles, pull the police force out. Clearly our police force is not designed to defend the country. Thats why we have an army! If we can use the police for everything, disband ATM and spend the money on other things like education and public welfare. I am a taxpayer, if you're using my money to maintain an army, I expect you to USE it. Not maintain the military for parades during independence day! Or spend my country's money to shop for submarines and helicopters.

What's the use of ATM if all it does is spend money but can't defend the country?

SO, based on YOUR logic. If armed indonesian robbers invade your home, you're going to send your mother to make them a cup of coffee and diplomatically invite them to leave? You send your mother instead of yourself to show them you want to resolve this diplomatically and prevent loss of life. -- I honestly don't believe you.

things that i know of

1. sending in police... we treat them as common criminal... can be tried in common court and/or extradite to the phillipines
2. sending in the army... we acknowledge sulu as a country... all prisoner consider POW hence not tried in common court... summore, Phillipines can take advantage of this

..then there is the GE factor....

*correct me for my apolitical views on the matter*

1. Treat them as common criminal? They are not common criminal. They are foreigners with heavy weaponary. Your common criminal don't come in a group of 200+ men armed with M16 and rocket launchers. Do you agree?

2. Sending in army means we acknowledge them as a foreign threat. Al-Qaeda is not a country, USA send in the army as well, did they acknowledge it as a country? No, they are just terrorists. Malaysia press already labelled the Sulu invaders as terrorists, now where is the army?

For anything related to border disputes or invasion, quick and deadly response proof to be the only way to solve it in long term.look at Russia, the japs not even dare to make noise over the northrn islands while stiring up fire with korea and china.

U act soft, your neighbour will not respect you. We all love peace and harmony but do remember it is not granted. Just give th3 invader a hard blow and do some PR after the shit with phillipines. Make sure they know we r friendly but not serious when ppl try to make fun on us.

Exactly! Now Malaysia look like a joke in the eyes of the world. Oh, you are invading me? Let's have a chat over tea.

What I am most upset about is the sacrifice of our police force. These people are not trained to handle foreign invasion, they are not trained to fight with people armed with M16 rifles and rocket launchers. The most the royal malaysia police face is robbers with pump shotguns and hand guns, NOT automatic rifles. And the biggest armed group they face are usually limited to 1 car, less than 10. NOT 200+!

 

[BFX73]

lol at some comments...

 

[arturo]

I heard from some sources that the reason y we didnt go all out guns a blazing with our army is when we attack using our army, we are acknowledging that the Sulu Sultanate is recognised as a country which is y they are treated as pendatang who are causing a ruckus. the forces sent in arent the run of the mill police. these are special forces very highly trained and are actually better trained and armed compared the the run of the mill angkatan tentera troops. these are the same forces that hunted down the communist back during the communist insurgency. their heroics are world famous and even US army special forces respect their jungle fighting skills. What Danz says about them being betrayed makes sense how they were so easily ambushed. most of the police killed are the run of the mill police who shouldnt have been sent in. THAT is a mistake.

last i read ATM have already sent in 2 batallions of troops and are awaiting the chief of staff's green light to squash the invaders like an ant.

from what i understand, this issue is very very sensitive cos yes they have the right to claim back Sabah as it did belong to them (once upon a time) and the fact that our gomen still pays they the tithe every month shows that we acknowledge this. however, based on judgement passed by the world court back in 1963, this is a non-issue anymore as the people of Sabah back then voluntarily voted to join the federation of Malaysia instead of going back under the Sulu Sultanate. similar case as Kuwait and Iraq.

my opinion is, the Sulu Sultanate should just concentrate on running his non-existent "country" and appreciate the fact that Malaysia still pays that stupid tithe. if this were Singapore, the government would've just stopped paying the tithe as soon as the world court passed judgement back in 1963. i believe even if they were to bring this to the world court, the appeal would be thrown out and maybe Malaysia will be offered to "buy over" Sabah for a token sum to close this issue once and

it is a damn pity that our commandos had to loose their lives. i really hope their families are properly taken care of by the government. they are the true heros

if based on my feelings...i would send in a whole brigade and just run them out of the country...but politics especially with neighbours are very very very sensitive. USA have the luxury of barging in like a bull cos they have the hardware to back them up. and if u noticed, everytime they go barging in for war, they always put a huge dent in their economy...the last war almost brought the whole world's economy down...we on the other hand only have 120+ k men active in ATM plus around 40+k in reserve. thats hardly a huge enough number to even defend ourselves against a full on invasion.

Did u all know that the "Sultan" of Sulu was an invited VIP guest at the last UMNO general meeting back in 2012?

anyway, lets all pray and hope that no more Malaysians are killed and this issue gets solved soon without further bloodshed and strained political ties.

dun flame me k

 

[YYC]

Could this incident lays the seed of separatism in future just like what happen in southern Thailand if our government does not clean the matter asap? We really don't know how many spies have been planted there.

 

[ixeo]

these are special forces very highly trained and are actually better trained and armed compared the the run of the mill angkatan tentera troops. these are the same forces that hunted down the communist back during the communist insurgency.

When was the last communist attack during the insurgency? It was a cold war up till the 80s. The only time any "attack" was carried out was in the 50s

So these "exact same forces that hunted down the communist" could have been 17 in the 1959, and today they are 71 years old?

Interesting. Didn't know our police and armed forces have members THAT old.

 

[pwhyze]

When was the last communist attack during the insurgency? It was a cold war up till the 80s. The only time any "attack" was carried out was in the 50s

So these "exact same forces that hunted down the communist" could have been 17 in the 1959, and today they are 71 years old?

Interesting. Didn't know our police and armed forces have members THAT old.

Not old member. Old unit.

Fyi, VAT69 is an elite commando unit of the Royal Malaysian Police. They have been modeled after the SAS, an elite regiment of the Royal British Army, receive direct training from the Brits during the conflict.

VAT69 is not a run-of-the-mill police unit. Initially trained to be a Counter-Insurgency Unit, they have evolved to be a specialized Counter Terrorist Unit, especially after 9-11. Equating them to your everyday police unit just shows your ignorance.

Now, after saying that, I do agree with you that we need to be more aggressive, especially since we lost 8 of our boys to these scumbags and they were the one who fired the first shot. Not to mention cowardly tricking our forces by firing upon them after waving the white flag. These are men without honor nor principles. They don't deserve restraint anymore.

 

[arturo]

ala Ixeo... relax...relax..i said dun flame me rite?....of cos la not the exact same ppl...but the training and quality should not have fallen that far from the original batch of VAT69'ers rite? its the same special division. of cos different ppl. btw...1 of the murdered vat69 commando is already 46 years old. I'm not gonna speculate if he was part of the original Vat69 which fought the communist. lets not argue on whether they are that great a special force or not. the issue here is why they send in police officers to fight off these invaders? I would assume that the government wanted to keep things politically polite while sending in their best in terms of jungle guerrilla warfare. rite? y send in a herd of elephants to search for a group of mice? do take note that today's papers are saying Ph president asking for Malaysia to give extreme leniency in handling this issue...all this after news of the 2 battalions of foot troopers being sent to Lahad Datu to be put on standby was released...

Phywze...yalo i also damn hot. if follow feelings sure bomb kau them all n kill every single one of them for coming here, shooting our folks, chasing our folks out of their homes and then have the gall claim the land there as theirs and chasing us out...but then how much more aggressive? if we had the military might of USA...then just straight away send in a whole brigade to CATCH every single one of them to be *ahem* tortured.

I think the problem is our government is hoping that the Ph government will do something about this....and hoping that we dont need to kill more Ph citizens. a government is chosen by the citizens and we all know how aggresive some parts of Ph citizens can be...i think both sides are playing things very very carefully to avoid full on war. imagine if we kills every single invading sulu follower....then the sulu followers and maybe even the majority of Ph folks cry foul....n overthrow the current ruling Ph government. ....then declare war on us? WW1 was started with even less deaths...

In the end, its a sad day when a veteran who is close to retiring dying in the hands of some idiots who live only for a sultanate which is a no longer relevant.

 

[Neo_]

i understand that VAT69 are special forces.But dont they have a special squad or a tactical team within the army force itself ?
I am sure they do have such a special force right ? Big buffed up boys with heavy toys,big brains and big balls :P .. After all this years
hearing of how much of money is beeing spent for the army forces but when its show time there is no action .. more like NATO style..
no action , talk only . For a beautiful model from Thailand , C4 was used , but for such a serious case what do you do ?

 

[ronaldindin]

how's the situation today?

 

[papagoines]

This video record what Tuanku Datu Mudarasulail Kiram think about this crisis. Clearly it was a case of taking advantage of the situation... with Malaysian's GE is coming and all...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=488619347868026

as part of the "on the fence" faction in malaysia, there ways to deal with this situation. bro ixeo is right, but at what cost? as so the current govt stance... but at what cost

I've seen both the military and the police might when doing projects with them. And I'm confident that the police can handle themselves... if they can't, DYMM already issuing orders to the battalions already in place in Sabah...w/o any need for approvals from the govt...

for better or worse....

 

[g4i8y0t]

I heard from some sources that the reason y we didnt go all out guns a blazing with our army is when we attack using our army, we are acknowledging that the Sulu Sultanate is recognised as a country which is y they are treated as pendatang who are causing a ruckus. the forces sent in arent the run of the mill police. these are special forces very highly trained and are actually better trained and armed compared the the run of the mill angkatan tentera troops. these are the same forces that hunted down the communist back during the communist insurgency. their heroics are world famous and even US army special forces respect their jungle fighting skills. What Danz says about them being betrayed makes sense how they were so easily ambushed. most of the police killed are the run of the mill police who shouldnt have been sent in. THAT is a mistake.

last i read ATM have already sent in 2 batallions of troops and are awaiting the chief of staff's green light to squash the invaders like an ant.

from what i understand, this issue is very very sensitive cos yes they have the right to claim back Sabah as it did belong to them (once upon a time) and the fact that our gomen still pays they the tithe every month shows that we acknowledge this. however, based on judgement passed by the world court back in 1963, this is a non-issue anymore as the people of Sabah back then voluntarily voted to join the federation of Malaysia instead of going back under the Sulu Sultanate. similar case as Kuwait and Iraq.

my opinion is, the Sulu Sultanate should just concentrate on running his non-existent "country" and appreciate the fact that Malaysia still pays that stupid tithe. if this were Singapore, the government would've just stopped paying the tithe as soon as the world court passed judgement back in 1963. i believe even if they were to bring this to the world court, the appeal would be thrown out and maybe Malaysia will be offered to "buy over" Sabah for a token sum to close this issue once and

it is a damn pity that our commandos had to loose their lives. i really hope their families are properly taken care of by the government. they are the true heros

if based on my feelings...i would send in a whole brigade and just run them out of the country...but politics especially with neighbours are very very very sensitive. USA have the luxury of barging in like a bull cos they have the hardware to back them up. and if u noticed, everytime they go barging in for war, they always put a huge dent in their economy...the last war almost brought the whole world's economy down...we on the other hand only have 120+ k men active in ATM plus around 40+k in reserve. thats hardly a huge enough number to even defend ourselves against a full on invasion.

Did u all know that the "Sultan" of Sulu was an invited VIP guest at the last UMNO general meeting back in 2012?

anyway, lets all pray and hope that no more Malaysians are killed and this issue gets solved soon without further bloodshed and strained political ties.

dun flame me k

Agreed, and I have been trying to tell the same thing. But someone here are saying things like, "If we can use the police for everything, disband ATM..." and using mother-make-a-cup-of-coffee example etc. Don't make assumptions based on what you think you know about the jobs scope of our police/special forces/military.

Try to understand what bro arturo wrote here.

Deep in my heart I just want this whole things to be over as soon as possible so that my pakcik (and the rest of them) from Kem Ulu Kinta can return home safely.

 

[pwhyze]

Agreed. I do fear the reprisal if we go all out on this. There are already rumors of MILF and Abu Sayyaf getting involved which would deteriorate the situation further (fyi, the Tausugs also make up a big part of MILF and Abu Sayyaf).

I can only guess the fear of widening the conflict is why we are showing a tremendous amount of restrain on this. All I heard is rumors so do take it with spoonful worth of salt.

One thing that disgust me is how BN and PKR are exploiting the matter to suit their own agenda, both accusing the other of whatever BS that I don't give a feck about. It's pathetic.

 

[ixeo]

Not old member. Old unit.

Fyi, VAT69 is an elite commando unit of the Royal Malaysian Police. They have been modeled after the SAS, an elite regiment of the Royal British Army, receive direct training from the Brits during the conflict.

VAT69 is not a run-of-the-mill police unit. Initially trained to be a Counter-Insurgency Unit, they have evolved to be a specialized Counter Terrorist Unit, especially after 9-11. Equating them to your everyday police unit just shows your ignorance.

Now, after saying that, I do agree with you that we need to be more aggressive, especially since we lost 8 of our boys to these scumbags and they were the one who fired the first shot. Not to mention cowardly tricking our forces by firing upon them after waving the white flag. These are men without honor nor principles. They don't deserve restraint anymore.

Thanks for information. Old unit, that I can understand.

ala Ixeo... relax...relax..i said dun flame me rite?....of cos la not the exact same ppl...but the training and quality should not have fallen that far from the original batch of VAT69'ers rite? its the same special division. of cos different ppl.

Not flaming boss, I was doing maths cause I don't know ma. I do not pretend to know everything like some people.

Maybe they like to send their mother and wife to negotiate with robbers and home invaders if they ever get attacked. In front of people say its diplomatic, actually they are just cowards.

---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:29 PM ----------

Agreed. I do fear the reprisal if we go all out on this. There are already rumors of MILF and Abu Sayyaf getting involved which would deteriorate the situation further (fyi, the Tausugs also make up a big part of MILF and Abu Sayyaf).

I can only guess the fear of widening the conflict is why we are showing a tremendous amount of restrain on this. All I heard is rumors so do take it with spoonful worth of salt.

One thing that disgust me is how BN and PKR are exploiting the matter to suit their own agenda, both accusing the other of whatever BS that I don't give a feck about. It's pathetic.

Ignore what PKR says, cause they are not in charge and they merely want to exploit the matter. However the current government is slow to react IMO. Only now they mobilize the army. Da feck. should be on standby since it started.

Mr.Tony milking the PR mileage now by showing his low cost airline transporting troops. Good job lah. All dragging their feet.

 

[TitanRev]

God speed to all out boys over at Sabah. Time show those invaders some tiger claws and roll in the big guns.

pwhyze, is MNLF not MILF la...Hahahahaha

 

[pwhyze]

In my defense, MILF stands for Moro Islamic Liberation Front, which is their other name, I'm guessing.

 

[papagoines]

thought that MILF/MNLF disarmed already after the truce between bangsamoro and the phillipine govt?

 

[TitanRev]

In my defense, MILF stands for Moro Islamic Liberation Front, which is their other name, I'm guessing.

news portal show it as MNLF (Moro National Liberation Front)...woh..how many names can a single group have...Hahahahaha what ever name it is....They are messing with our country I would gladly grab my gun and shoot them.

 

[pwhyze]

thought that MILF/MNLF disarmed already after the truce between bangsamoro and the phillipine govt?

Yep, true...but they are rumors of sympathizers of the Sulu cause among the former fighters ready to help their fellow Tausugs. Again, rumors, so might not be true. According to a Phillipine newspaper, the guy that was killed by the youth villagers in Sampoerna is a MNLF member.

news portal show it as MNLF (Moro National Liberation Front)...woh..how many names can a single group have...Hahahahaha what ever name it is....They are messing with our country I would gladly grab my gun and shoot them.

Hehe..yeah. IIRC, MNLF is the name of the political party whereas MILF is the armed wing of said party.