B16A Plonked, What's next?

[shiroitenshi]

4-1, good extractors, more than 2" of piping.. 3.5bar fuel pressure.

Seems like most of the power is related to the exhaust systems.. but since it's vtec.. if you get good exhaust flow on vtec.. pre vtec suffers.

 

[- J f D -]

Bro shiroi speaks the truth, i can testify to that haha. My low end sucks.

 

[shiroitenshi]

See my dyno sheets in the dyno thread and you'll see where I make power.

Torque curve maintained after 6K. With cams, hopefully I can make higher than that on aftermarket cams.. budget wise still lacking though.

Horsepower calculations are defined by RPM and torque..

If you want high horsepower, you can

a) generate insane amounts of torque at low rpm.

b) generate lesser amount of torque at higher rpm.

That's why B20B can generate high horsepower numbers even on lower RPM while a B16B-B18C setups can make that same number, but need higher RPM.. it's all about torque numbers and where they're at at the RPM range.

 

[patrickchong]

b16a without ABS sistem, its a bit dangerous to drive fast...

 

[wil_alastor]

ABS = aku brake sendiri....khekhe

 

[patrickchong]

correct.....

 

[zaki]

Horsepower calculations are defined by RPM and torque..

If you want high horsepower, you can

a) generate insane amounts of torque at low rpm.

b) generate lesser amount of torque at higher rpm.

That's why B20B can generate high horsepower numbers even on lower RPM while a B16B-B18C setups can make that same number, but need higher RPM.. it's all about torque numbers and where they're at at the RPM range.

i'm trying to understand those two statements.
Horsepower is directly proportional to Torque & RPM
HP = Torque x RPM / 5252

for point a)
if you have a car that cannot rev high, you can get high HP by generating more torque.

for point b)
if you car have `ciput' torque, you can get high HP by revving higher.

am i rite? :regular_smile:

take for an example, 1200hp supra vs 1200hp 1987 McLaren-Honda

1200hp supra revs until 7000RPM
so the torque would be Torque = 1200 / 7000 x 5252 = 900.3428 lbs-ft

McLaren-Honda revs up to 14000RPM
Torque = 1200 / 14000 x 5252 = 450.1714 lbs-ft

 

[hattech-v]

use torque wrench to increase torque...

 

[zaki]

use torque wrench to increase torque...

the longer your anu the higher you HP

 

[shiroitenshi]

i'm trying to understand those two statements.
Horsepower is directly proportional to Torque & RPM
HP = Torque x RPM / 5252

for point a)
if you have a car that cannot rev high, you can get high HP by generating more torque.

for point b)
if you car have `ciput' torque, you can get high HP by revving higher.

am i rite? :regular_smile:

take for an example, 1200hp supra vs 1200hp 1987 McLaren-Honda

1200hp supra revs until 7000RPM
so the torque would be Torque = 1200 / 7000 x 5252 = 900.3428 lbs-ft

McLaren-Honda revs up to 14000RPM
Torque = 1200 / 14000 x 5252 = 450.1714 lbs-ft

Yup.. that's why you and I can see how lower hp can still beat higher hp cars. (assuming the gearing is right)

That's why ciput torque cars want high ratio FDs, while insane torque cars seems to want something a less than 4.0

But that calculation not entirely correct (It's not wrong), because peak hp is measured at the rev point where the peak torque is greatest. Assuming that your peak HP did occur at that rev point.. then you have your number, and the above calculation is correct.

Mine is 163whp on paper, but that's at 7.5K only.. not 8K.

If can eke out or maintain torque past that 7.5K mark.. I think sure can register near 170whp at peak. Thing is.. too many factors affect that flow at high rpms, and you essentially WILL kill quite a substanstial amount of low end power to achieve it. As to how to achieve that.. that one is probably answerable by experimentation or more study. Currently the answer seems apparent to me that cam duration will affect that, but that's still in the realm of limited experiences and theory. But apart from that, I think piping (including the size of the primaries) can also affect that.. but from what I've learn and seen.. 2.5 is just way too big for a 1.6L car.. perhaps unless we rev it up to 9K or more and with cams & valvetrain to compensate. And I think you and I can guess what happens to the flow at lower rpms then.

I'm not so deluded by hp numbers, but having a car that can go quite fast on a small cc engine is definitely a fun way to explore about how engines make power.

Cannot complain anything though.. mine is just a stock setup, with just some playing around on the exhaust system and fuel regulator.

Now if I can only figure out how to get that torque curve maintained during the 8K mark on a stock setup... (>.
I'm thinking playing with the cams might get me something, but I still want to play within the limits of what the stock ECU can do.

 

[shiroitenshi]

b16a without ABS sistem, its a bit dangerous to drive fast...

Not when your disc brake rotor size fill the insides of an 15" wheel.. heheh..
What's the rotor size on this?

Still can't beat brembos though.. hahaha.

 

[zaki]

But that calculation not entirely correct (It's not wrong), because peak hp is measured at the rev point where the peak torque is greatest. Assuming that your peak HP did occur at that rev point.. then you have your number, and the above calculation is correct.

peak hp doesn't occur at peak torque. peak hp occurs just before the hp curve drop. peak torque is where engine acceleration is the greatest. that's where engine efficiency is the highest.

torque is proportionate to air flow. as long as hp increases with regard to RPM, there will be air flow in & out. after peak torque, air will flow lesser as RPM increases. the torque curve indicates air flow pattern. as RPM goes up towards redline, engine efficiency will drop tremendously. this is the region where HP will stop rising. the engine will be having difficulty to breath.

 

[hattech-v]

x paham aku.... haha

 

[wil_alastor]

peak hp doesn't occur at peak torque. peak hp occurs just before the hp curve drop. peak torque is where engine acceleration is the greatest. that's where engine efficiency is the highest.

torque is proportionate to air flow. as long as hp increases with regard to RPM, there will be air flow in & out. after peak torque, air will flow lesser as RPM increases. the torque curve indicates air flow pattern. as RPM goes up towards redline, engine efficiency will drop tremendously. this is the region where HP will stop rising. the engine will be having difficulty to breath.

bro zaki , why/how that air flow lesser after peak torque? why ppl change to larger plenum intake manifold&tb or ITB if it's not to increase air volume and air velocity at higher rpm? (sori noobie here..)

 

[J101]

a superbike engine in your EG bro :p

Yup.. that's why you and I can see how lower hp can still beat higher hp cars. (assuming the gearing is right)

 

[zaki]

bro zaki , why/how that air flow lesser after peak torque? why ppl change to larger plenum intake manifold&tb or ITB if it's not to increase air volume and air velocity at higher rpm? (sori noobie here..)

in general, the higher the rpm, the harder the to breath. by doing the mods you mentioned, will help the engine to be more efficient at higher RPM. it may not only increase the torque/hp at high rpm, it will also increase the previous peak torque value. thus, overall torque curve shall increase.

 

[hattech-v]

if still not increase how? haha

 

[zaki]

if still not increase how? haha

there are possibilities.....:tongwink:

 

[<azzump®>]

buy RSM.. take the time loh..
how fast ur car is..bfore..mark it.. then with simple adjustment, try to clock it again.. then see the progress..

then buy VAFC/rechip ur ECU..
repeat step above..c loh..

then use ur car untill u get board..then upgrade!
cam, head mods, xtractor n so..

better run it several months, see the fuel coms, get to know ur engine character n so..

just my 2cents..

 

[crower75]

azzump....will it let u know that if an engine is losing its compression ? miahahahahahahhaah