4AF + Blacktop internal part = work?

[TRD.AE92]

Since the 4A (Carb) are can interchange the internal part....

So I thinking to upgrade my mum car 4AF (carb) with using the Blacktop internal part (Rod, piston, crankshaft and flywheel set) + Single Webber = worked?

 

[me2kimi]

I also been thinking will 4afe with 4age head either 16valve or 20valve work? what about the output?

 

[TRD.AE92]

I also been thinking will 4afe with 4age head either 16valve or 20valve work? what about the output?

4AFE + 4AGE head = worked... But problem is what ECU you going to use?

 

[me2kimi]

stock 4afe ecu not suitable for this setup? let say with 16 valve head, this setup also can't support by stock 4afe ecu?

 

[bernard74]

Hi guys, my ae101 4afe is going thru an overhaul now, 3rd day oredi... swap the pistons with bluetop 4age 16v. It'll raise the compression ratio from roughly 9.3:1 to 10.3, wonder if can feel the difference or not. Still not sure this swap is safe but I'm willing to try, what do u guys think? Anything else from the GE that can be used in the FE??

 

[EFN]

Why would anyone want to do this? for starters 4AF is an Low Revving economy grade motor and the 4AG (later versions - AE92, AE101 & AE111 20Vs) are all High Comp, High Rev machine. Even if you can interchange the internal parts I doubt it will be really beneficial and cost effective in the long run. Swapping parts between 16V and 20V 4A-G is common but only the most wacky person would want to mix and match 4AF and 4AG.

Like I said, if you can do it without incurring more cost than the price of a total 4AG, then you hit the jackpot...but more likely you will end spending more with follow up tweaks and tuning ;)

 

[pcmoddingmy]

High comp on 4AFE setup (with 4AGE internals or head) might need better fuel delivery system, some sort of management, upgraded oil pump and others parts to support the noticeable gain. End result will be more powerful than stock 4AFE but not as good as stock 4AGE. The engine will definitely not be rev friendly like the 4AGE unless you get the whole 4AGE bottom plonked into the 4AFE... but why not go for 4AGE block afterall? Besides, 4AFE doesn't come equipped with sufficient oil squirters that might cause oil starvation that could lead to quicker wear & tear internally.

If you were to only use 4AGE pistons on 4AFE, the gain might not be much noticeable as going with oversized pistons designed for 4AFE. Also, if you were to use 20V pistons, valve seating and clearance must be checked.... else kiss the valves good bye ;)

Besides, running hi-comp setup requires better fuel... means more expensive to drive around as a daily drive. Even stock 20V are known to knock a little with RON97 in Malaysia! Also, hi-comp setup requires better cooling as well.

Just my 50cent ;)

 

[TRD.AE92]

Why would anyone want to do this? for starters 4AF is an Low Revving economy grade motor and the 4AG (later versions - AE92, AE101 & AE111 20Vs) are all High Comp, High Rev machine. Even if you can interchange the internal parts I doubt it will be really beneficial and cost effective in the long run. Swapping parts between 16V and 20V 4A-G is common but only the most wacky person would want to mix and match 4AF and 4AG.

Like I said, if you can do it without incurring more cost than the price of a total 4AG, then you hit the jackpot...but more likely you will end spending more with follow up tweaks and tuning ;)

Hahaha... For me i don't think i will cost over than the total 4AG, another thing is... I just want to make my dad & mum happy a bit with this setup only... They not HP hunger

Last time I also thinking to take 7A to mix match, but 7A I currently don't on hand stock...
At moment only 20V BT (engine kosong) have 2 units...

---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 12:07 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was 12-18-2009 at 11:56 PM ----------

High comp on 4AFE setup (with 4AGE internals or head) might need better fuel delivery system, some sort of management, upgraded oil pump and others parts to support the noticeable gain. End result will be more powerful than stock 4AFE but not as good as stock 4AGE. The engine will definitely not be rev friendly like the 4AGE unless you get the whole 4AGE bottom plonked into the 4AFE... but why not go for 4AGE block afterall? Besides, 4AFE doesn't come equipped with sufficient oil squirters that might cause oil starvation that could lead to quicker wear & tear internally.

Yeah... I go with all 4AGE block...
Anyway... 4AF is carburetor engine la, so fuel pump & fuel delivery system is less out the hassle.. only thing is I will use the webber to solve my hassle too

If you were to only use 4AGE pistons on 4AFE, the gain might not be much noticeable as going with oversized pistons designed for 4AFE. Also, if you were to use 20V pistons, valve seating and clearance must be checked.... else kiss the valves good bye ;)

Oversized? If like that I better go for 7A block le...
Valve seating problem only I was concerned, but I still 85% sure it won't hit.

Besides, running hi-comp setup requires better fuel... means more expensive to drive around as a daily drive. Even stock 20V are known to knock a little with RON97 in Malaysia! Also, hi-comp setup requires better cooling as well.

Just my 50cent ;)

webber + setting will solve the above hassle.

 

[scottwrx]

haiyah.. juz get a bt engine with wiring, swap the whole thing in, easier lah... instead spending time on experimenting... bt is 20v, hence the piston is design for 20v only, 4af is 16v, and piston design is not the same, u need to calculate compression, piston n valve clearance etc.... if u plan to put bottom internal to the 4af black, is 20v head n 4af black with 20v bottom, more time consuming...waste more time on tuning n petty matters...

 

[bernard74]

What about the 4age 16v pistons (AE86) in a 4afe?? same bore 81mm and same stroke 77mm?? both 16v, diff only at the piston head... that was what i was thinking...higher compression...higher hp?? Moreover, same piston skirts and conrod 40mm & 18mm both pressed in....

 

[black910]

TRD.AE92 , I believe you know what you are doing already & you are just getting some feedback to feel safe on your plans. However i feel is a good idea & with a good objective you are trying to move in with all the parts that you currently have ( i mean the BT's) in hand now to minimize the cost. Cheers on your creative ways!!!

P.S - Dump a full set SVT in & all problem solved. **juz my 2 cents**

 

[scottwrx]

bernard, i know that the dimensions are all the same, but i m not really sure of the 4ag 16 pistons, coz need to look at the 4af head to check.. something i have never done, not really familiar with swapping pistons..

 

[TRD.AE92]

What about the 4age 16v pistons (AE86) in a 4afe?? same bore 81mm and same stroke 77mm?? both 16v, diff only at the piston head... that was what i was thinking...higher compression...higher hp?? Moreover, same piston skirts and conrod 40mm & 18mm both pressed in....

The piston head not much different, you can PNP it...
Piston pin for 4AFE is 18mm which is same with blue top 16V too...

higher hp? Yes... because compression ratio are slightly increase.

here are the picture of both piston:
Left are 4AFE and right are 4AGE (blue top)

---------- Post added at 12:15 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

TRD.AE92 , I believe you know what you are doing already & you are just getting some feedback to feel safe on your plans. However i feel is a good idea & with a good objective you are trying to move in with all the parts that you currently have ( i mean the BT's) in hand now to minimize the cost. Cheers on your creative ways!!!

P.S - Dump a full set SVT in & all problem solved. **juz my 2 cents**

Thanks for supporting me... and yes you are correct (I just want to double confirm my plan only).
16 valve on 4AFE moded, I don't think it will fall too behind the stock 4AGE 16 valve. Hahaha....

 

[futeball]

My opinion, if wanna give my mom a pleasure driving, just go fot BT auto.
No need to hassle your brains & sweat for r&d. Just plug-n-play.

 

[TRD.AE92]

My opinion, if wanna give my mom a pleasure driving, just go fot BT auto.
No need to hassle your brains & sweat for r&d. Just plug-n-play.

hahaha... maybe we are different...

 

[bernard74]

Trd.AE92, what does webber refers to?

 

[TRD.AE92]

Trd.AE92, what does webber refers to?

Webber = performance carburetor

 

[futeball]

of course we are different...:)

 

[1JZtezza]

Hahaha... For me i don't think i will cost over than the total 4AG, another thing is... I just want to make my dad & mum happy a bit with this setup only... They not HP hunger

Last time I also thinking to take 7A to mix match, but 7A I currently don't on hand stock...
At moment only 20V BT (engine kosong) have 2 units...

---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 12:07 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was 12-18-2009 at 11:56 PM ----------



Yeah... I go with all 4AGE block...
Anyway... 4AF is carburetor engine la, so fuel pump & fuel delivery system is less out the hassle.. only thing is I will use the webber to solve my hassle too

Oversized? If like that I better go for 7A block le...
Valve seating problem only I was concerned, but I still 85% sure it won't hit.

webber + setting will solve the above hassle.

Interesting!!!..why not just put in the blacktop whole...4valve piston must match 4valve head similarly for 5valve.The 4AF valve angle(between inlet and exhaust) differ from the 4AG and clearance has to be measured.

If you can resolve the ignition for the 20valve...the 4throttle can serve as a manifold for twin weber dcoe(looks big enough to fit a 45 DCOE..hehe).Disable and remove the 4throttle butterfly..use the weber ones...seal up the injector holes.Resolve the linkages for throttle control.

Since you dont use the BT ECU remove the VVT ,use 4age cam pulley and change to higher duration cams.Maybe use the other BT exhaust cam its 240deg v 232deg inlet cam.I certainly hope its a manual you are modding!!!else a lot of check lights will be flashing eg...gear change;afm;O2 and knock sensors...

Something I thought about but never got round to doing it...best of luck..After this you will probably be swapping rides with your mom/dad...hehe

---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:50 AM ----------

sorry bt runs map so maybe can use vacuum from throttle manifold.

Question :anyone use BT ecu and webers????

 

[TRD.AE92]

Interesting!!!..why not just put in the blacktop whole...4valve piston must match 4valve head similarly for 5valve.The 4AF valve angle(between inlet and exhaust) differ from the 4AG and clearance has to be measured.

If you can resolve the ignition for the 20valve...the 4throttle can serve as a manifold for twin weber dcoe(looks big enough to fit a 45 DCOE..hehe).Disable and remove the 4throttle butterfly..use the weber ones...seal up the injector holes.Resolve the linkages for throttle control.

Since you dont use the BT ECU remove the VVT ,use 4age cam pulley and change to higher duration cams.Maybe use the other BT exhaust cam its 240deg v 232deg inlet cam.I certainly hope its a manual you are modding!!!else a lot of check lights will be flashing eg...gear change;afm;O2 and knock sensors...

Something I thought about but never got round to doing it...best of luck..After this you will probably be swapping rides with your mom/dad...hehe

---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:50 AM ----------

sorry bt runs map so maybe can use vacuum from throttle manifold.

Question :anyone use BT ecu and webers????

Bro... For your information, the 4AGE 16V can put the 4AGE 20V Bottom block set in without a single mod... Do you believe? I done this for my ex car already... It worked perfectly, but need at least SAFC 5 button lo...! Result.. get about 25 whp. From 105 whp to 130 whp.

Anyway for you all information too:
4AFE serve better torque and power at lower rpm...
4AGE 16V serve better torque and power at middle rpm...
4AGE 20V serve better torque and power at high rpm...
Logically... SOHC engine always have better power at low rpm than the DOHC can do... this is fact!

So in this scene, my mum and dad won't need the power at high rpm kua! So what for I need to have a DOHC engine, which I only need low rpm and better accelerate?

Beside this... I will use only single webber, not twin webber. Swap car with my mum/dad? Just forget about it! My bro use 4AGZE, me use 3SGTE, my sister use 4EFTE and my younger bro use 4G63... You think they dare to drive our car?


BT ECU and webber... why need to do this? Very weird la..