4g15 mod

[Izso]

So... 2k for the BOT set, 2k for the ECU since I cannot piggyback. I'm looking at coilovers currently. Kinda worried about the Japanese brands because of servicing issues.

Wise move. Halfcut coilovers are a gamble. If you get a good one you won't know how long they'll last and where to service. Spend some good money on a decent BC or HWL and you'll have better peace of mind.

But if not how to go 250bhp on 1.5 liters?

Need forged pistons meh for BOT? I want it to make like 250 by the time Im done. Quite big project perhaps. Of course. Ill start from 120 or so.

15 inch and that fake Momo are my favorite bits of my car from the previous owner. Also yes. I got my car in January. New driver here.

How bad are cap ayam tuned 4g15s?

Sigh. Try handling 140whp first then tell me how you'll want to handle 250bhp. Btw, if you're going to go so high powered, you'll need to worry about a completely new set of things. Torque steer, wheel spin, drive shafts that can take that power, gearbox, etc. Expect to pay through your nose for custom made reinforced parts.

And what exactly is "cap ayam" tuned? Is there such a thing? A badly tuned car will probably break something. A poorly tuned car probably will not fully bring out the power of the car. A decent tune would probably be "safe" so nothing blows up. So what's cap ayam?

Normally how much for overhaul? The engine has clocked around 197 000km... I know that is a lot already....

Depends on what you want to do. Top or full overhaul? And if full depends on what you want done? If it's already out, you might as well spend on getting mods done there and then. Taking it out again and again will cost more than necessary. Things like oversized pistons, head skimming, crankshaft, bearings, port and polish, etc. So all depends on what you want done. Cost can range from RM2k to RM9k.

I wish mine was MMC too.

Sigh. You really don't get it. VDO is a lot smarter than the ancient MMC. The only good thing about MMC is it's got more aftermarket support in terms of reflashing and all. But why bother with flashing it when VDO can just adapt? Unless you mod over the map limitations, it'll adapt to most NA mods. With everything I did, I kept the VDO until I finally got my hands on a piggyback. Installed it and had it tuned, improvement of only 5-8whp. Meaning the VDO was more than capable of handling all my mods.

Why is that bad?

Mine did 247k. I think I need an overhaul quite badly. Also, the remapping and piggyback support. GAAAAH

Huh... you need mechanical mods more than you need those things.

Think I'm stressing the block a bit too much for 250bhp? :hmmmm:

Also, what's the reliability like if I BOT?

Everything wasn't designed for that sort of power. Oil seals, gaskets and all will have a shorter lifespan. You'll probably have heat issues on hot days too unless you upgrade the whole cooling system. This is for BOT.

And don't expect BOT to give you 250bhp. Probably no more than 110-130bhp from complete stock parts with low boost.

What does properly mean though? No overboost, and only short periods?

Properly means you do everything properly. Not half assed. BOT in my personal opinion is half assed. Stock internals and stock everything with a BOT kit is wreckless imho. Personal opinion.

Uncles also can mod cars one leh! Hahah.
I wish someone could tell me what else I need though. I assume I need a fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, the injectors, standalone ECU, and some other stuff though. But I don't think standard 0.5 bar needs forged internals? Because I saw posts of pnp. Also if forged internals were a requirement then i don't think anyone would want to BOT in the first place. :hmmmm:

Dude, 0.5bar boost will last you 2 weeks. After that you'll want more. Then slowly increase a bit a bit then one day boom... piston decides to take a vacation. Spend another few thousand fixing everything again. Why bother la? Do it right the first time and spend more time enjoying the car, not spending more time in the workshop.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

2k-9k for overhaul... Well, that isn't exactly a small amount for my current income status...

From what Izso stated, it looks like BOT isn't really worth the money for the amount of power you'll get and not to mention reliability issues. Transplanting a 4G93T seems to be a wiser choice...

 

[issuzark]

Wise move. Halfcut coilovers are a gamble. If you get a good one you won't know how long they'll last and where to service. Spend some good money on a decent BC or HWL and you'll have better peace of mind.




Sigh. Try handling 140whp first then tell me how you'll want to handle 250bhp. Btw, if you're going to go so high powered, you'll need to worry about a completely new set of things. Torque steer, wheel spin, drive shafts that can take that power, gearbox, etc. Expect to pay through your nose for custom made reinforced parts.

And what exactly is "cap ayam" tuned? Is there such a thing? A badly tuned car will probably break something. A poorly tuned car probably will not fully bring out the power of the car. A decent tune would probably be "safe" so nothing blows up. So what's cap ayam?



Depends on what you want to do. Top or full overhaul? And if full depends on what you want done? If it's already out, you might as well spend on getting mods done there and then. Taking it out again and again will cost more than necessary. Things like oversized pistons, head skimming, crankshaft, bearings, port and polish, etc. So all depends on what you want done. Cost can range from RM2k to RM9k.



Sigh. You really don't get it. VDO is a lot smarter than the ancient MMC. The only good thing about MMC is it's got more aftermarket support in terms of reflashing and all. But why bother with flashing it when VDO can just adapt? Unless you mod over the map limitations, it'll adapt to most NA mods. With everything I did, I kept the VDO until I finally got my hands on a piggyback. Installed it and had it tuned, improvement of only 5-8whp. Meaning the VDO was more than capable of handling all my mods.

Why is that bad?



Huh... you need mechanical mods more than you need those things.



Everything wasn't designed for that sort of power. Oil seals, gaskets and all will have a shorter lifespan. You'll probably have heat issues on hot days too unless you upgrade the whole cooling system. This is for BOT.

And don't expect BOT to give you 250bhp. Probably no more than 110-130bhp from complete stock parts with low boost.



Properly means you do everything properly. Not half assed. BOT in my personal opinion is half assed. Stock internals and stock everything with a BOT kit is wreckless imho. Personal opinion.



Dude, 0.5bar boost will last you 2 weeks. After that you'll want more. Then slowly increase a bit a bit then one day boom... piston decides to take a vacation. Spend another few thousand fixing everything again. Why bother la? Do it right the first time and spend more time enjoying the car, not spending more time in the workshop.

So many posts in one go.

1. Guess I'll stick with BC racing then for the coilovers.

2. I don't expect to have such a big leap in one go though. It's more like an over the time thing. But yeah, I never thought of stuff like wheelspin and the driveshaft. I did give a thought to the gearbox though. And I don't actually have a solution for that yet. :hmmmm:

3. I was referring to badly tuned cars when I said cap ayam. It's just a reference for not properly tuned cars.

4. Didn't know that VDO was that smart, honestly. If that's the case I'd just keep the VDO for now.

All in all, it kind of sounds like BOT is quite a bad idea for 4G15. Perhaps I should reconsider it again.

2k-9k for overhaul... Well, that isn't exactly a small amount for my current income status...

From what Izso stated, it looks like BOT isn't really worth the money for the amount of power you'll get and not to mention reliability issues. Transplanting a 4G93T seems to be a wiser choice...

Gonna reconsider the options I guess. :slug:

 

[vr2turbo]

2k-9k for overhaul... Well, that isn't exactly a small amount for my current income status...

From what Izso stated, it looks like BOT isn't really worth the money for the amount of power you'll get and not to mention reliability issues. Transplanting a 4G93T seems to be a wiser choice...

Same goes for overhaul, might as well transplant if can get newer engine.....

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Gonna reconsider the options I guess. :slug:

Don't worry, no need to dump the 4G15 altogether. Still can go for NA route. Reliable and faster engine response.

Same goes for overhaul, might as well transplant if can get newer engine.....

That depends on what newer engine it is... The one that I like is 4G92 MIVEC but that halfcut is expensive.....

 

[issuzark]

Don't worry, no need to dump the 4G15 altogether. Still can go for NA route. Reliable and faster engine response.

Less power, but much faster response? That was the original plan. The one at the very beginning.

 

[Izso]

2. I don't expect to have such a big leap in one go though. It's more like an over the time thing. But yeah, I never thought of stuff like wheelspin and the driveshaft. I did give a thought to the gearbox though. And I don't actually have a solution for that yet. :hmmmm:

4. Didn't know that VDO was that smart, honestly. If that's the case I'd just keep the VDO for now.

All in all, it kind of sounds like BOT is quite a bad idea for 4G15. Perhaps I should reconsider it again.

Wheelspin = get LSD. About 1k price range for used. Driveshaft - custom driveshaft or modified one probably 1k price range. Gearbox - don't modify over the capacity of the GB. Close story.

VDO is smart enough to handle you in your current financial situation. Once you start venturing into forced induction then it'll be time to consider piggybacks or standalones.

Same goes for overhaul, might as well transplant if can get newer engine.....

2k-9k for overhaul... Well, that isn't exactly a small amount for my current income status...

From what Izso stated, it looks like BOT isn't really worth the money for the amount of power you'll get and not to mention reliability issues. Transplanting a 4G93T seems to be a wiser choice...

Wiser in what sense? There are pros and cons to both scenarios. If transplant, need to consider refurbishing the 4G93T. Engine alone approximately 4k, refurbish and all, probably 1.5k, then installation 1k, JPJ - time and finally puspakom - 100+ and must adhere to all puspakom guidelines otherwise you'll waste a lot of time redoing the inspection.

BOT the 4G15 you don't need to do any registration and you'd be familiar with whats good and whats bad about the engine. It's also much easier to work on compared to DOHC. Lesser parts to fail and easier to tune. Personally I'd go with 4G15 and mod that. Cost wise probably will be less cost effective but nothing beats the satisfaction of building your own car rather than borrowing it from another engine that's not yours to begin with. Maybe it's just me and my 6 months DIY overhauling the engine which makes me so sentimental to 4G15 engines.

Less power, but much faster response? That was the original plan. The one at the very beginning.

NA will always give the more immediate performance gains but FI will give you the bigger kick in the balls but is more of a handful. NA is less likely to get you in trouble with JPJ roadblocks and NA is helluva easier to mod compared to FI. And the thing is - with NA, you can anytime opt to go FI. Sort of. That's assuming you don't go high compression like I did.

 

[issuzark]

Wheelspin = get LSD. About 1k price range for used. Driveshaft - custom driveshaft or modified one probably 1k price range. Gearbox - don't modify over the capacity of the GB. Close story.

VDO is smart enough to handle you in your current financial situation. Once you start venturing into forced induction then it'll be time to consider piggybacks or standalones.


NA will always give the more immediate performance gains but FI will give you the bigger kick in the balls but is more of a handful. NA is less likely to get you in trouble with JPJ roadblocks and NA is helluva easier to mod compared to FI. And the thing is - with NA, you can anytime opt to go FI. Sort of. That's assuming you don't go high compression like I did.

I think I'll do a manual conversion after I'm done with the handling bits. Also, Izso, DIY this week? I thought of cleaning the TB and changing the ATF filter.

I'll stick with VDO for a while then. But if I skim the internals, wouldn't it make it more dangerous if I go FI direction? :hmmmm:

 

[stupidcar]

Wheelspin = get LSD. About 1k price range for used. Driveshaft - custom driveshaft or modified one probably 1k price range. Gearbox - don't modify over the capacity of the GB. Close story.

Specifically one sided wheelspin.

 

[Izso]

I think I'll do a manual conversion after I'm done with the handling bits. Also, Izso, DIY this week? I thought of cleaning the TB and changing the ATF filter.

I'll stick with VDO for a while then. But if I skim the internals, wouldn't it make it more dangerous if I go FI direction? :hmmmm:

All depends. Daily drive the auto is actually better and can take quite a beating. Maybe not as flexible as manual but still usable. I used for a long time before finally converting. What I don't understand is I dunno why but I lost bhp switching to manual.

And you need to research engines before replying :p cuz that made no sense whatsoever regarding the skimming.

 

[issuzark]

All depends. Daily drive the auto is actually better and can take quite a beating. Maybe not as flexible as manual but still usable. I used for a long time before finally converting. What I don't understand is I dunno why but I lost bhp switching to manual.

And you need to research engines before replying :p cuz that made no sense whatsoever regarding the skimming.

I remembered reading somewhere that said skimming makes the walls thinner hence more dangerous to BOT because high pressure, thin walls. :hmmmm:

That's weird, losing bhp when switching to manual. Also, I'm probably just a bit skeptic over my own car because it feels sluggish, though it could be my own fault when I got overtaken by Myvis and being unable to catch up after. Also the fact that I only managed to bring it to 150 at most. :slug:

 

[vr2turbo]

Wiser in what sense? There are pros and cons to both scenarios. If transplant, need to consider refurbishing the 4G93T. Engine alone approximately 4k, refurbish and all, probably 1.5k, then installation 1k, JPJ - time and finally puspakom - 100+ and must adhere to all puspakom guidelines otherwise you'll waste a lot of time redoing the inspection.

BOT the 4G15 you don't need to do any registration and you'd be familiar with whats good and whats bad about the engine. It's also much easier to work on compared to DOHC. Lesser parts to fail and easier to tune. Personally I'd go with 4G15 and mod that. Cost wise probably will be less cost effective but nothing beats the satisfaction of building your own car rather than borrowing it from another engine that's not yours to begin with. Maybe it's just me and my 6 months DIY overhauling the engine which makes me so sentimental to 4G15 engines.

If the 4G15 is in good condition then yes, straight away can BOT. Bro. Renesis mentioned need to overhaul to bring power back, so instead of overhaul then BOT, might as well change engine to more powerful one....
Like me, my auto box gave way, check chop shop RM2.3k, VR4 half cut RM3.5k, straight go VR4, but of course got workmanship to pay, exhaust, suspension etc. etc., came to RM8k minimum. The other reason was auto box just changed not long ago before car sold to me, so I expect the auto box not going to last long too. This gb is similar to the Perdana SEi model, the problem gb....

 

[gunnerzz]

Bro issuzark....
Being soo young and handling soo much horses is never a good recipe.
Plus its kind of a challenge to older driver like me with less pony to play with...heheheh

150hp is enough lah..
u can brag about having 100hp per litre.

 

[Izso]

I remembered reading somewhere that said skimming makes the walls thinner hence more dangerous to BOT because high pressure, thin walls. :hmmmm:

That's weird, losing bhp when switching to manual. Also, I'm probably just a bit skeptic over my own car because it feels sluggish, though it could be my own fault when I got overtaken by Myvis and being unable to catch up after. Also the fact that I only managed to bring it to 150 at most. :slug:

Myvi has a weight advantage. You can't out accelerate a myvi unless you have mods. My old wira with auto could keep up with the myvi but couldn't overtake.

And skimming refers to the cylinder head skim. The walls you're talking about is the cylinder walls and you bore it out to fit larger pistons. Nothing wrong with over boring the cylinder walls as long as you don't exceed 77mm diameter. That's the largest piston size you can go safely assuming you put in strong cylinder wall liners other 76mm is big enough. Aiya lots to talk. Tell you more when I see you

---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------

If the 4G15 is in good condition then yes, straight away can BOT. Bro. Renesis mentioned need to overhaul to bring power back, so instead of overhaul then BOT, might as well change engine to more powerful one....
Like me, my auto box gave way, check chop shop RM2.3k, VR4 half cut RM3.5k, straight go VR4, but of course got workmanship to pay, exhaust, suspension etc. etc., came to RM8k minimum. The other reason was auto box just changed not long ago before car sold to me, so I expect the auto box not going to last long too. This gb is similar to the Perdana SEi model, the problem gb....

Even if tip top I wouldn't bot without doing internal reinforcements. You'll never know what a turbo will do to you. Bwahahaha

 

[issuzark]

Bro issuzark....
Being soo young and handling soo much horses is never a good recipe.
Plus its kind of a challenge to older driver like me with less pony to play with...heheheh

150hp is enough lah..
u can brag about having 100hp per litre.

Myvi has a weight advantage. You can't out accelerate a myvi unless you have mods. My old wira with auto could keep up with the myvi but couldn't overtake.

And skimming refers to the cylinder head skim. The walls you're talking about is the cylinder walls and you bore it out to fit larger pistons. Nothing wrong with over boring the cylinder walls as long as you don't exceed 77mm diameter. That's the largest piston size you can go safely assuming you put in strong cylinder wall liners other 76mm is big enough. Aiya lots to talk. Tell you more when I see you

Sure. Let me know when got TT or anything. For 77mm, is that a 4G18 piston?

 

[vr2turbo]

Aiya lots to talk. Tell you more when I see you

Need to have technical knowledge?......hahhahahhahahha

 

[Izso]

Sure. Let me know when got TT or anything. For 77mm, is that a 4G18 piston?

Erm.. no. Campro CPS 1.6 pistons

Need to have technical knowledge?......hahhahahhahahha

Basic knowledge laa

 

[issuzark]

Erm.. no. Campro CPS 1.6 pistons

Seems like newer protons still share some parts with older ones.

 

[Izso]

Seems like newer protons still share some parts with older ones.

Technically not really. Cuz you need to bore out the cylinder to fit the oversized piston. You're custom fitting it in.

 

[vr2turbo]

Technically not really. Cuz you need to bore out the cylinder to fit the oversized piston. You're custom fitting it in.

Mod mah!.....