venting BOV to open air

Originally posted by vestax@Dec 16 2004, 23:30
zzzz boring la like this bai , we in here share opinions , no one is challenging each other , im just saying if you were to go to a dyno run , let me know i`ll supply the blow off and then we see the difference thats all before & after , cause we both don't have prove so from there we can see la if there is any difference . if i were to pay for your dyno , might as well i bring my own car for dyno right . :rolleyes:
i sense a diversion...

how ever u got a point, that is u might aswell go dyno ur own car.....so go ahead. and post the results here.

its too bad for u if u got a bov that does nothing. if there are no improvement whatsoever then there is no point for an atmo being made....but there is, it improves performance, therefore its made.
 
nevermind la, evolution, I take up the bet. I'll bring my car for dyno. If there open bov is better I pay if not u pay... :)
 
no point la danny , u never see it coming ? you run on dyno , got shift gear meh ? how the bov going to recirculate back if you stay on 5th gear WOT :lol:
 
Originally posted by Danny@Dec 16 2004, 23:49
nevermind la, evolution, I take up the bet. I'll bring my car for dyno. If there open bov is better I pay if not u pay... :)
open bov as in atmo bov? then im afraid i cant take up that bet becos im on the side of atmo bov is better.

vextax,

instead of reverting to talking cock perhaps u could argue against my reasoning why atmo is better with technical explanation like what i have done. but if u cant i take it as u just cant becoz u r out. then that leaves only 1 conclusion, atmo is more power.

a few ppl's curiosity has been aroused for the fact we have conflicting opinions about atmo bov.. they would love to know which is true...

i have provided detailed technical explaination to support my point...

u have provided nothing. u have only proposed a challenge, which u know is unlikely to happen, then later u backed out by saying like u were trying to be helpful... then later u changed the subject altogether...
 
okay bro , you win hands down , cause you did your own theory and that is great , seriously , im not saying that after market blow off is not good , im wondering how does it give better performance ?. the way i see it , its a gadget which blows off pressure in the pipes when the throttle is shut close , doesnt matter if it blows out or blow in .
 
if u had experience an an atmo bov that gives no diffrence, say it out and be humble enuf to ask 'why' not just draw ur own conclusion without some brainstorming. becos i think i can tell u how u can solve this puzzle. as i understand where u r comming from. i too had experienced no diff in performance after installing an atmo, but i found the cause of it. and it became great after rectifying the problem. i was just waiting for someone to pop this question...
 
well frankly i`ve never thought of changing my stock bov , cause no point , im not the type who fancy the bov sound , and im happy with my stock bov cause , while gear shifts i don't have thick black smoke puffing out from my exhaust . and for your information , if you do a search on the net check for 1G crush blow off , its a stock vr4 bov which has been crush to take up to 17psi before it leaks . if without crushing it , it will hold up to 12psi . so i don't see the point of changing mine , cause it can hold up high amout of boost and the best thing its quiet . :lol:

oh yea i`ve been runing stock bov close to 2 years aready and im happy with it :lol:

here are some additional explanation on the net .

If you plan to "dump" or vent your BOV to atmosphere (instead of recycling into the Turbo) while using your stock MAS, you will encounter some problems. The DSM MAS senses air going thru it and the ECU (car's computer) calculates the amount of fuel to add. If you "dump" this air instead of re-circulating it into the intake, the computer will add too much fuel and you'll probably see a puff of black smoke behind you. Also since the RPM drops FAST, if you leave the clutch in too long, your ECU may not be able to pick up idle and the engine may die.
 
let me get 1 thing strait, bov leak is NOT equal to bov release a.k.a "pisssh"

the so called leak is actually a safety feature to prevent over boost that is harmful to ur engine, just like internal wastegate.

assuming u have an engine that is super strong and will never ever blow no matter how high a boost u run on. then there is actually no point in having pressure release valves like waste gate and bov 'leaks' becos more boost simply means more power and thats always a good thing.

a leak hapens when ur trottle is open while a pishhh happens when the trottle is closed. both serves a diffrent purpose therefore leak is not relavant in our discussion. im sure u know this.

im using atmo bov and i also do not have a thick black cloud of smoke when i change gears. and my engine does not stall either. and i dont have an safc to cut off fuel supply when trottle is closed either.

why is it i dont experience the bad side effects of atmo? on top of that, i enjoy power gain.

what u quote in the article and the bad side effects is true, if:

-u have a non adjustable atmo bov and it does not suit the engne u put it on
-u have an adjustable atmo bov but did not make use of its adjustable feature to adjust to suit ur engine correctly.

what do u think the adjustng screw is for? volume control?
 
bro before you try to bring me down with your facts , are you sure what you wrote is correct :rolleyes: ?.

i`ll let the others do the talking , :lol:
 
i dont care what i write is correct or not. if im wrong others will correct me and i get to learn more, otherwise im right.
its a win-win situation.
 
Originally posted by vestax@Dec 16 2004, 23:50
no point la danny , u never see it coming ? you run on dyno , got shift gear meh ? how the bov going to recirculate back if you stay on 5th gear WOT :lol:
keke oh yea eh... so there's no way to compare also.
 
Originally posted by Danny@Dec 16 2004, 23:30
interesting bet, I wanna know the answer also. The only reason why I'm using re-circulating bov is coz I can't stand the pssst pssst psssssssssssssst sound it gets irritating after awhile when every gear change also got psssss
Danny.. when u get pssh pssh BOV just pass it to me la i give u original BOV :D lolx
 
Originally posted by E V O L U T I O N@Dec 17 2004, 01:46
i dont care what i write is correct or not. if im wrong others will correct me and i get to learn more, otherwise im right.
its a win-win situation.
since its a win-win situation....

technically there is no proper research if an aftermarket blowoff valve is better . it does not add performance and the only reason why manufacturer put it there is because the consumer market complain the tush tush tush sound without a bov and it is annoying. the stock bov is meant to be a silencer only , it was when one day someone thought its cool to make a different sound then boom the tuner industry take this chance to make money and produce different type of bov.

in the real world , ask speed D for example , if u boost high , the only thing that would lead to a leak is from the bov , thus speed D doesnt really recommend on using one....and there is no proper research that says that without a bov the turbo will fail over time.

just to add , for aftermarket adjustable or not , if u are still running on the MAF or AFM before the turbo... blowing off to the open atmosphere is definately BAD , adjustable or not. unless u are talking about after market standalone.

talking here with my own experience and knowledge from various tuner standpoint of view.



cheers
 
Blow Off Valve (BOV)
(a.k.a. Compressor Bypass Valve)

What does it do:

The purpose of a blow off valve or compressor bypass valve is to prevent large pressure spikes in the intake pipes when the throttle plate is closed while boosting, preventing the turbo from surging. The BOV sits between the turbo and the throttle body and has a vacuum line that is attached to both the other side of the BOV valve and the intake manifold. When you are boosting the pressure on both sides of the valve is essentially equal because the pressure in the intake manifold is the same as in the intake pipes. When you close the throttle plate while boosting all that air slams into the plate and pressure spikes. At the same time the intake manifold pressure drops to a vacuum, and thus so does the pressure on the other side of the valve. The result is the valve opens wide to allow the pressure to vent out. Also included in a good BOV is some form of spring to aid in keeping the valve closed during modulating part throttle situations so that the BOV doesn't open and cause drivability problems.

Why upgrade:

The stock bypass valve in the 2g's is a very weak. The result is that it leaks at boost levels above about 12 psi. The fix then, obviously, is to install a BOV that doesn't leak until higher boost levels. If you don't, anything you do to increase boost will be fruitless. You even run the risk of damaging your turbo by stressing it trying to get higher boost.

Here is what happens, if you do any mods that increase boost (intake, exhaust, modding stock boost controller, installing after market boost controller, installing larger turbo etc) before upgrading the BOV. Air is sucked into turbo, compressed, sent to the intercooler, then past the BOV, to the throttle body, into the intake manifold, and into the pistons. The BOV vents into the intake system BEFORE the turbo which is effectively like venting it outside in this case because it is allowed to expand back to atmospheric pressure.

Now as the turbo spins faster to increase the pressure in the intake pipes beyond the leak point of the stock BOV, pressurized air in the intake pipes leaks past the BOV. The pressure in the intake pipes thus can't reach the point where the boost controller will keep the turbo from spinning faster and limit boost. So the turbo spins even faster to flow more air to try and get pressure up to the point where the boost controller will start regulating the turbo's flow, but air is still leaking out of the BOV and in fact as pressure increases the BOV opens more and leaks even more. The end result to this cycle is that either:

a) The turbo will eventually spin fast enough to overcome the leak and get the boost pressure up. At this point the turbo is running way outside its efficiency curve and is doing little else than pushing very hot air and working hard to do it. Hot air knocks, detonates, and contains less air mass than the same pressure/volume of air at a cooler temp (remember your physics PV=nRT) and you'll be pissed that your car is slower than a Honda Insight

B) The turbo never really can flow enough air to overcome the leaking BOV, all the steps in a) occur, and your turbo dies an early death.

Now let me repeat that again:

BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING WHICH CAN INCREASE BOOST LEVELS YOU MUST INSTALL AN UPGRADED BLOW OFF VALVE.

What to upgrade to:

There are several different alternatives which may be considered. The most popular is to utilize the stock pre-95 BOV (aka 1g BOV). This unit is usually good for up to 22 psi or higher when crushed. To use it you will need either an adaptor to install it on the stock upper intercooler pipe BOV mount, or you will need a new upper IC pipe with a 1g BOV flange. If you are planning on getting a new upper IC pipe (not including the radiator hose mod mentioned in the Upper IC section) then you should get it at the same time you buy the 1g BOV. Otherwise if you get the BOV now you will need an adaptor which will be useless with new upper IC pipe.

Another option is the stock 3000GT BOV. It mounts just like the stock 2g BOV, but in my opinion it is really pointless to even bother with this. I have yet to talk to anyone who has gotten this mod and not eventually moved on to a point where they end up having to buy another BOV because the 3000GT model can't be used with any aftermarket UIC

You can also get one of the many aftermarket BOVs but for the price they just aren't worth it. Most of the fastest DSMs out there (who don't care about putting name brands on their cars) run the 1g BOV. Many others have tried the aftermarket and found them to just not work as well as the 1g valves. The choice is yours but you will pay top dollar for a part which is marginally better and usually not even as good as the cheaper alternative. Many members have switch from aftermarket BOVs to the 1g.

Ok so you insist on putting in an aftermarket BOV. Maybe you are hoping to improve the looks. That is OK if you have the money and at least you are still improving performance. There are many options out there from HKS, GReddy, Blitz, TurboXS. Which ever way you go you really should do it such that the purged air is routed back into the intake at the turbo. This isn't the time to explain the entire working of the engine management system and besides you should do some of that research on your own. But the long and short of it is this: the ECU measures how much air enters just after the filter and bases how much fuel it injects based on that count. When you shift, if that counted air is vented to the outside rather than back into the turbo inlet, then the ECU will still inject fuel based on the counted air but with the air now gone the car will run VERY rich between shifts resulting in stumbling. Some people seem to be able to get away with it but generally it just isn't worth bothering with. There is no performance benefit and the loss in drivability is not worth making the BOV sound louder.

Another issue which concerns the BOV is crushing. The 1g BOV may be crushed to allow it to hold more boost on the highend and to not leak at part throttle applications. Crushing the BOV, in short, entails placing the BOV in a vice and slowly crushing it (making it shorter not skinnier). The trick is to use a vacuum pump (hand is fine) and gauge and crushing the BOV until it remains closed at about 20 mmHg. So don't just stick it in a vice and crush it 0.x inches. You have to use a vacuum gauge to do it right. If you need more info do an archive search of the Talon Digest Archive Searcher. Search for BOV AND crush.

well said there by DSM Tuners themself.
I tink i get what they have said
and I Believe it , more facts there :)
here i go to get a 1g blow off..

vestax : anywhere i can easily get the 1g vr4 blow offs ? and the usual price , dont want to get conned.
 
so its all about

http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/images/product/iadmin/1934_x450.jpg

vs

http://www.prostreetonline.com/pso/images/products/1421-SM003.jpg

From Another good source:

A BOV is for injection systems not running a MAF sensor and instead running a MAP sensor. A Diverter valve is for systems running an MAF sensor. Since the air is already metered it had to stay in the system or it will run poorly when you shift.


DSMtuners.com

http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gtu...stage1power.php

which was already been posten by Vestax before

a 1g BOV or a recirculating BOV is recommended :)
 
a lot of tuner in US is using the OEM BOV while most tuner in Japan are using the atmo BOV cos they own compnay is producing the BOV but on HKS site, they are using thr SSQV and it has recirculate kit.... why do HKS make the recirculation kit if there is no improve in performance? Blitz also do the same now.... hehehe

Now i know why , when my boost go up and change gear , there are Puff of black smoke coming out from my exhaust...hehehehe...

From experience, OEM BOV is far better than Atmo BOV cause idling more stable...hehehe... but i like the Psshhh pssshh better...... :lol:

PEACE....

WRC Cars ....use recirculate BOV ....not the atmo BOV.... :P
 
aiyo , evolution thinks its a win win situation , and then samore can say " i don't care what i write is correct or not " , if you don't write the correct stuff , people will get wrong information la bro & that is not good . you sound so narrow minded , cause you say people will correct you , but then you don't accept the fact insted you make your own theory and you think its right without proving it .

1g bov in chop shop la bro , about RM 50 like that , but standard one can hold up to 12 psi only , you need to crush it if your going to boost higher . but no point if your still on stock boost , cause your standard plastic bov can still hold the stock boost .
 

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