Turbocharging Na Engine

[J4X]

What do you need to do a bolt on turbo for a NA engine (Specifically EJ-DE, Kelisa engine...)? Say... boosting at a low pressure of 0.3bar only... Can list out everything?

 

[nightmare]

i would like to know some more about it too .....

hope some master can come here and tell us ! .......

 

[LB8610_Wira]

boosting only 0.3 bar....i dun think it's of much use for spending 'a certain amount' of money for only getting 0.3 bar...not much of a difference.....with the money spend....u can spend on the internal parts of the engine which might results in the same performance.....just my point of view.....

 

[J4X]

it really depends on the big picture. turbocharging at .3 bar is juz a small part of the picture. so, care to give some tips?

 

[Joeker]

If not mistaken, K20C forum has wan member who has a Kelisa wif bolt on turbo.

The turbo kit is from an Mira L200 engine.

 

[vteckiller]

0.3 bar dont think u need to do anything..
just retard the timing like 3-4 degrees and the car should be ok..

if want 0.5 and above need to change piston,ecu,injectors,etc..etc...

 

[J4X]

how to retard ignition timing. can use safc2?

 

[equin0x]

Originally posted by J4X@May 19 2004, 11:08 PM
What do you need to do a bolt on turbo for a NA engine (Specifically EJ-DE, Kelisa engine...)? Say... boosting at a low pressure of 0.3bar only... Can list out everything?

The formula is quite easy actually..

You can turbo charge an N/A engine and tune it using the SAFC. Chances are, you will need a fuel cut defender too. As the N/A computer MIGHT cut off fuel the minute it sees boost pressure instead of vacumm. Also not forgetting a boost controller (manual/elec) to keep it at certain level of pressure (probably u MIGHT need to custom redo the actuator rod as mainly the daihatsu's IHI turbo stock turbo boost is 0.7bar and u cant reduce the boost level lower than stock boost)

Pros of turbocharging a high compression engine:
a) More power from per PSI / BAR increase can be obtained opposed to low compression engines
Better fuel economy than low compression turbo engines
c) Better driveabililty opposed to low compression turbo engines

Cons
a) you can only run very limited boost pressures before it Pings/knock, maybe
maximum 0.6-0.7bar.
A big intercooler is required to reduce pinging (weathers are hot here)
c) Engine internals of N/A engines are not as strong.
d) Extra fuelling and dyno tuning is required.

All in a nutshell: A turbocharged N/A Engine is nicer to drive compared to a
standard OEM turbo low compression. But it is limited in performance upgrade
potential.

Basic piggyback such as S-AFC can handle the fuelling task as long as the injector sizes and fuel pump capacity is sufficient.

so your wish list would be:
- fueling computer (piggyback or standalone)
- FCD (doenst require if u're using standalone computer)
- turbocharger kit (turbo, manifold, cat con & way down, intercooler piping & intercooler, BOV etc)


Hope it helps..

 

[gti88]

also, an NA engine doesnt have oil squiters like turbo engines do.

And these NA engines were built to be NA not turbo ..
so you think of the strength of the engine itself. Not saying it cant be done.
But more to, think carefully before doing it, Cheers to all ! ^_^

 

[J4X]

Also not forgetting a boost controller (manual/elec) to keep it at certain level of pressure (probably u MIGHT need to custom redo the actuator rod as mainly the daihatsu's IHI turbo stock turbo boost is 0.7bar and u cant reduce the boost level lower than stock boost)

Can an external wastegate do the job to lower the boost down to .3bar? Wat boostcontroller do u recommend?

also, an NA engine doesnt have oil squiters like turbo engines do.

What is oil quiters?

 

[equin0x]

havent got the chance to fit in a wastegate yet so couldnt tell..

erm boost controller ah? i'm using one from GFB which is a mechanical unit.. lock all means stock boost.. not sure about elec one coz they work thru solenoid..

 

[J4X]

interestingly boost controller only increase boost but doesn't seem to be able to reduce boost does it?

 

[flamefox850]

if u r using internal wastegate and actuator type (like standard one comes with turbo), u can try add the lenght of ur actuator rod to decrease boost
cut and weld ur actuator rod

 

[Hmark]

I do agree with most of them which is that NA is not suit to be turbo charge. It is absolutely unreliable and can be quite costful to plant in a turbo with just 0.3 bar.

It just not worth in C/P.

Its much better to get a more powerful NA implant.

However, good luck to you for a sucessful turbocharge vehicle.

 

[J4X]

Originally posted by flamefox850@Jun 1 2004, 07:39 PM
if u r using internal wastegate and actuator type (like standard one comes with turbo), u can try add the lenght of ur actuator rod to decrease boost
cut and weld ur actuator rod

This is the main thing that is troubling me.

Assuming.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0207scc_boostcontrol11_z.jpg
This is the daihatsu turbine, the small hole to the left is the internal wastegate. This means that when the small hole fully open up, the boost will be at 0.7bar. Right?

So, does it still works if I lengthen the actuator rod? Because the hole already fully open even when i fully push the actuator rod.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0207scc_boostcontrol10_z.jpg

 

[equin0x]

actually it work this way... but i gotta explain it in layman term coz i dunno much of the techy mechy term of this..

as u know, turbine are spooled by exhaust gases in the turbine housing. by default, an actuator will only open as soon as the pressure taken is sufficient from the compressor intake pressure. so the actuator actually push the rod and open the internal wastegate so excessive exhaust gases will bypass the turbine housing and vent off thru the internal wastegate hence the intake is remain at a certain boost level.

the function of boost controller (speaking about manual one now) is something like a valve controller, to vent off bit of the pressure so actuator wont open so soon (indirectly increase yor boost coz if the actuator din open, the boost will keep increasing)

just my paria 2 cent explaination

 

[J4X]

want to clarify... its boost pressure in the hose connected to the actuator that triggers that actuator to open right? not vacuum right?

flamefox850,
if I do it ur way, it means that the actuator will already be slightly open even when there's boost below the set level right? this will come to a problem of lag... but yes, ur idea did gave me some inspiration.

 

[equin0x]

Originally posted by J4X@Jun 3 2004, 01:59 PM
want to clarify... its boost pressure in the hose connected to the actuator that triggers that actuator to open right? not vacuum right?

yup it's pressure that push the actuator rod to open the wastegate.

 

[flamefox850]

Originally posted by J4X@Jun 3 2004, 01:59 PM
want to clarify... its boost pressure in the hose connected to the actuator that triggers that actuator to open right? not vacuum right?

flamefox850,
if I do it ur way, it means that the actuator will already be slightly open even when there's boost below the set level right? this will come to a problem of lag... but yes, ur idea did gave me some inspiration.

yes...u r correct...if the rod is much longer than standard one (WG slightly open), this will make the boost come later that before.

but u remember 1 thing...if we r using manual boost controller..means with or without bleed vakum/pressure hose connected to actuator, let's say set up for 1.0bar boost, the internal WG actually cracked open a little bit once 0.1bar boost fill the pressure/vakum hose, then opens a little bit more on 0.2bar and so on so on so on... this actually causes LAG

1 thing to cure this type of LAG, install elec.BC that comes with stepping motor or solenoid or whatever that ensure, after the intake manifold is filled with setup boost,let say 1.0bar also, then only the solenoid send the pressure to actuator to open.
that means, once the turbo spooling, the internal WG will close tight until it reach the boost we set

 

[J4X]

ok... this is my latest inspiration.

Lets ASSUME.
Stock OEM untouched.
Actuator rod move by 1cm, wastegate open by 1cm.

Now, you modify the actuator rod which is part A.
You lengthen the part A by 0.5cm.
Now, your actuator already pre-move 0.5cm.
If you actuator rod move 1cm, wastegate will now open to 1.5cm because it has actually travel 1.5cm.
When your actuator did not move, wastegate is already open by 0.5cm.

Next, this is the best, you modify the part that actuator rod is connected to. part B.
You shorten part B, say 0.5cm.
If your actuator rod move by 1cm, wastegate will now open to 1.5cm.
At the same time, when your actuator did not move, wastegate will still be closed.
How it works? Assume the part to be like your manual gearbox. Previously you are running at 1st gear, now you are running at 3rd gear. Think.

So what if you overdo part B? Doesn't matter, you already lowered your stock boost. Get a boost controller now to increase your boost.

What if you want to increase the stock boost?
Modify part B, but increase the length.

However,
my only worries is, even when I have open the wastegate(not actuator rod) to the maximum, the boost still cannot go down to 0.3bar because the amount of exhaust flow cannot go through it fast enough.