RM115k for new Proton R3 or Top Up for DC5

[deacon]

Well we only need to look as far as Hyundai's new engines that are naturally aspirated. They will all be derivatives of the EO1 2.0L. Less power for sure.

Actually Honda has the tech to produce a balls out version of their K series engines. The reason why they don't do it is because it needs to have some form of civility - daily driving, fuel economy and overall performance. A fully tuned 260bhp K series would more than likely suffer from a torqueless low to mid range and poor fuel consumption.

I figure the EO1 engine is very close to the kind of engines that Renault builds in their R26 cars. What specifics i'm not sure, but surely both those engines use continuously variable cam gears.

 

[akuma]

Yup with the standard seat. I had a discussion just now...maybe it depends on the type of helmet. That time we used the sparco open face supplied by proton coz that time (for the duration of 3 years) I was doing the R&H development of the neo.

i was using sum chapalang motorcyle full face helmet only.eh,since u were involved w d R&H development of d Neo,can i ask u sumthg?haf u encountered lagging performance frm std Neo?Example,car up 2 speed in 4th gear.....approaching junction,slowed down,downshift to 3rd.......as I approach d junction,downshift to 2nd,car rolling......n if d junction is clear,any normal driver wud just drive on in 2nd gear,right?BUT,everytime i do dis,d rev will struggle 2 climb,even whn i FLOOR it!i experienced dis on 2 1.6M H-line units n 1 1.6A H-line...both YoM 2006.but whn i got my hands on a 2005 1.6M H-line Gen2,tested it over d same stretch of road,dat never happens.how come?different gear ratios?different ECUs?

deacon,
eh,i tot d rumour abt Hyundai purchasing d rights 2 d E01 were false?but i really like all those new Hyundai models.....very nice design!

 

[WAFS]

Akuma, I didn't encounter that problem during devlpment bcoz that time around 2003-2005 I worked on the prototype stages till the 1st batch of production then I resigned on 2005. So, never got the chance to drive post 2005 neos. All I can remember performancewise was the torque dip issue, no power at low rpm, good top speed at high rpm and the improvement on automatic transmission.

 

[deacon]

I had no idea hyundai didn't purchase the EO1 engine actually. That's news to me. I did however hear/read about someone purchasing the engine design. Someone in China maybe?

 

[BLANk]

if im not wrong,the Petronas EO1 engine was toyota 2ZZ-GE...right???

 

[aalto]

if im not wrong,the Petronas EO1 engine was toyota 2ZZ-GE...right???

Nah...That was a rumor, coz the valve cover almost looked alike....

Proton didn't want to buy the EO1 engine rights bcoz they wanted to develop the CPS , so petronas sold it to some china & korean car manufacturer....didnt mentioned which companies..

Maybe proton had already invested too much in the CPS engine, so that they had to push it to production with whatever they had....or Petronas price was too high for proton....or being malaysia, someone above "potong line" bcoz they weren't getting "commissions".....who knows what the real deal was....huhu

 

[WAFS]

Nah...That was a rumor, coz the valve cover almost looked alike....

Proton didn't want to buy the EO1 engine rights bcoz they wanted to develop the CPS , so petronas sold it to some china & korean car manufacturer....didnt mentioned which companies..

Maybe proton had already invested too much in the CPS engine, so that they had to push it to production with whatever they had....or Petronas price was too high for proton....or being malaysia, someone above "potong line" bcoz they weren't getting "commissions".....who knows what the real deal was....huhu

The E01 engine was a join colaboration of petronas and yamaha. Proton cannot afford to buy the engine from petronas becoz the price was too high and not because they already invested on CPS. Campro development was after EO1 engine long been developed. But definitely, Campro CPS engine is much cheaper than EO1. I had the chance to drive the Waja E01 at sepang as FIV (fast intervention vehicle) driver during F1 race back in 2003 & 2004...feelingwise the engine is not as powerful as the honda K20.

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

http://ignition.my/2010/04/08/first-drive-video-proton-satria-neo-r3-lotus-racing/

YouTube- IGNITION.MY FIRST DRIVE: PROTON Satria Neo R3 Lotus Racing

 

[deacon]

The 2zz was co developed with Yamaha as well.

 

[aalto]

I guess if you look at the marketing point of view, a 2.0/1.8L EO1 engine wouldn't of sold much judging by malaysia car buying trends.

They probably could put it in a Waja, perdana & neo (high line models) maybe but thats pretty much it.
Most malaysians who buy proton look for an economical car with good fuel economy and that usually means "the low CC mentality",1.6 below is usually the case (even though nowadays 1.8/2.0 are very fuel efficient & taking account P-W-R).

So I guess in a way proton did the right thing in ditching the EO1 engine for the campro.

Bcoz in the end most malaysians really don't care about "performance factors" but only the "wallet factor"..... "What sells" is always the kingmaker...

 

[minivan]

I guess if you look at the marketing point of view, a 2.0/1.8L EO1 engine wouldn't of sold much judging by malaysia car buying trends.

They probably could put it in a Waja, perdana & neo (high line models) maybe but thats pretty much it.
Most malaysians who buy proton look for an economical car with good fuel economy and that usually means "the low CC mentality",1.6 below is usually the case (even though nowadays 1.8/2.0 are very fuel efficient & taking account P-W-R).

So I guess in a way proton did the right thing in ditching the EO1 engine for the campro.

Bcoz in the end most malaysians really don't care about "performance factors" but only the "wallet factor"..... "What sells" is always the kingmaker...

Yeah, true... The likes of us would have liked to see a potentially kick-ass 2.0 engine in a proton. But at the end of the day, its a call of the market. We here don't neccessarily represent the whole market...

 

[deacon]

What the market tells you in terms of trend does not echo what they would feel were the option given to them.

Take for example the many versions of the B series VTEC engine. B16A, B16B, B17A, B18C, and B18CR.

The majority of those engines were available in regular cars/coupes. Civic 4 doors, 2 doors, Del Sol, CRX, DC2, DA6 etc etc. Not all of those cars were for the performance market. Most don't even have a viscous LSD, let alone a helical. In fact it can be said that the Type Rs were only for the enthusiast in mind. That being said, people who ended up with an "average" VTEC motor in their 4 or 2 door didn't regret having those motors and its power.

If you apply the same logic here, a Gen 2 with a EO1 engine would have probably cleaned up the market segment easily despite its poor build quality (This isn't to say Hondas of old didn't have quality issues either by the way). The power would be quite thrilling to own whether or not Proton made it or otherwise.

Its more about knowing that you have the power there, rather than having it there to use all the time.

Just my RM2

 

[sk8terboyz]

go for DC5 better la == proton rm115k -.-ll rely wat the ****

rm115k i rather go find rerider get tat RX-7 type RB lolx

 

[khoo198]

go for DC5 better la == proton rm115k -.-ll rely wat the ****

rm115k i rather go find rerider get tat RX-7 type RB lolx

dun bro.......get elise better la...

 

[akuma]

WAFS,
well.d problem does feel like it's d torque dip issue coz once d rpm is up sumwhr ard 3500rpm,d car will quite swiftly.d only farnee thg is i dun encounter dis w d 1.6M Gen2....nope.not d CPS version.n finally,sum1 who has driven a car w d E01.not as good as d K20,eh?\\

n speaking abt d E01,apparently 2 China companies bought over d tech.it was reported in paultan wat?i read it frm der.now,ain't dat a bit farnee?sum China company can afford it but not Proton?

n watched d Neo R3 LE 1st drive video.just dun feel d oomph ler...get into d car n it almost look like a regular Neo.it doesn't haf d same feeling like stepping into a Type R.d Recaros,d Momo steering......

 

[InitialD]

What I'm afraid is that soon u gonna see wannabe who mod their standard Neo to copy the paint color and sticker and CF hood of the Neo R3 LE.

 

[sk8terboyz]

dun bro.......get elise better la...

i am 7's fans hehe but elise a good choice oso light weight mr car

 

[akuma]

well,i m quite sure copied bodykits will b available soon.also complete replicas will appear on our M'sian road soon too.Proton shud take it as a form of flattery ppl willing 2 copy it.hehehehehe
eh,speaking abt CF hoods?i tot 1 time it was frown upon by d authorities?or is it becoz dis Neo R3 LE came w d CF hood frm d factory,so it's ok?

 

[Jin_Jat]

Proton have a lot of conspiracies...thats y they are not making good progress...hope that the upper position ppl in Proton realize the mistakes they had done...

 

[TitanRev]

I think the R3 guys & techs are given guidelines from Proton & Marketing Dept to produce this LE Neo. If they are free to do anything to the car. I don't think this will be the final product. R3 guys are car enthusiast like us and they would consider the whole package (inside and outside of the car) if there were no limitation put into their ideas. Just look at the Satria R3....lots of goodies inside out.

The R3 guys did a neat job. Maybe is the Marketing Dept that is putting a limit on them... I think the meeting went something like this:

Marketing: 'OK, we will come out with a LE LR Neo...our target selling price tag is about MYR115K +-. You R3 guys do as much as you can on the car but the final cost should not be higher than 115K but also need to be reliable & suitable for daily drive '
R3 Guys: 'Alright, we will discussed with the other R3 people and list down what we can put on the car and how we will do this'

I believe the R3 guys still can make the CPS pump out more HP. With more aggressive cams, rebuild the full engine, stroked it up...etc...There's a lot that still can be done to the engine. We all know that increasing the HP on a NA engine cost more than a forced induction engine.

If the price tag was set at 150 or 160K..Heck, I believe this LE Neo would be punching out even higher HP and drives even harder...but in the end, people will still say 'CRAZY AH!!! 160K for a LE Neo...buy EVO8 better lah'

I think Majority of Malaysian still don't get the idea of Mass Produced car & Limited Edition cars. But there's also another problem with the car manufacturer in Malaysia...Sometimes the word 'Limited Edition or Special Edition' is wrongly use...just like what we see on the road now....drive drive half way...wah~~when did this model come out with 'Limited Edition or Special Edition' then drive another few minutes...Oit~~another SE or LE....why say SE still can see everywhere wan....

 

[WAFS]

WAFS,
well.d problem does feel like it's d torque dip issue coz once d rpm is up sumwhr ard 3500rpm,d car will quite swiftly.d only farnee thg is i dun encounter dis w d 1.6M Gen2....nope.not d CPS version.n finally,sum1 who has driven a car w d E01.not as good as d K20,eh?\\

Yup...there's no power below 3500 rpm as far as I can remember...I always drop a gear whenever I want acceleration at low speed....quite annoying actually. But top speed is quite good for both 1.6L and 1.3L. And this is the same case as Gen.2. Maybe the Gen.2 you drove was an improved version.
I can't say much on the E01 coz I'd driven the one in the Waja. Waja's kerb weight is around 1.3ton so it contributes a lot on the slow acceleration. Power delivery was quite linear and I didn't feel the secondary cam profile engagement like Vtec.
Hey..this is getting off topic...we should discuss bout the NeoR3LE vs DC5