Protech Ecu

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Danny101

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ecupro said:
Protech ECU - Well , please check on same site but in TECH Forum : Engine Management.
Go..go...go... the "START" gate open....going to shut down....Daniel!, just give me 3 seconds........
mr ecupro, u said see freedom ecu in ipoh........from which car? as far as i know of thats only my car fitted with freedom ecu lying around in ipoh.......wei you open up my ecu and see ah never ask me also........hahaha just kidding ler, are you the one that i'm suppose to know from bercham.....cheers professor!
 

rollakid

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freedom ecu will auto adjust itself like ori ecu? or is it other model? go see their pricelist before, dunno jap, only understand got one damn expensive and one more affordable, maybe trade in price...

really interested in tom's ecu also, dunno how good.. bah~ poor ppl like me can only use ori ecu...

heck~ twin weber nicer XD
 

Danny101

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rollakid said:
freedom ecu will auto adjust itself like ori ecu? or is it other model? go see their pricelist before, dunno jap, only understand got one damn expensive and one more affordable, maybe trade in price...

really interested in tom's ecu also, dunno how good.. bah~ poor ppl like me can only use ori ecu...

heck~ twin weber nicer XD
yes freedom ecu got fuzzy logic function( auto tuning ) as you said but still need to fine tune for optimum power unfortunately you need to understand japanese coz its all written in jap and also willing to pay big bucks in order to find proper tuner to get it tune........cheers!
 

rollakid

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Danny101 said:
yes freedom ecu got fuzzy logic function( auto tuning ) as you said but still need to fine tune for optimum power unfortunately you need to understand japanese coz its all written in jap and also willing to pay big bucks in order to find proper tuner to get it tune........cheers!
just wondering, if we just plug the freedom ecu into the engine without any fine tuning, will it perform better than stock?
 

Danny101

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rollakid said:
just wondering, if we just plug the freedom ecu into the engine without any fine tuning, will it perform better than stock?
sorry i have never try that so better do not comment.........hehehe! try asking cuscostrutbrace maybe he had try b4 since he said no..........cheers.
 
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Acoustic

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hi rollakid christopher

we need a minimum "the base map" i.e. idling 1000rpm 20ms injection pulse width on typical 1.6L 4cy approximate 30psi idling fuel pressure approximate best vacuum condition, approximate 250 cc/min injectors at zero tps, at 1v map or 3v afm, etc

if the map is all zero, and we only key in above, will not work, because all ecu, including protech will take iteration or average to next rpm.

if next data is zero, then crank to start will be forever difficult to impossible

if next data is zero, then 1% tps will cause engine to jerk.

hence the require of the so called minimum base map is extremely high, not just a few figures

they must be exacting..... over an extremely wide range of parameters across all conditions conditions, multiplied over each other many directions and dimensions.

when you have good idling map from 0 rpm to 2,000 rpm with tps from 0 to 100% with everything else right, then above 2,000 can be rough, giving fuel consumption anyway from 11 to 17 afr. with this ecu can autotune if you drive long long

ecu need information to autotune, and the information come from "time" of driving, making the o2 sensor hot above 600 celcius, driving over all rpm, multiplied over all tps, multiplied over map / afm, plus water temp and air temp and vehicle speed

and you need to drive very long time and very long distance over very cold ambient temperature (cold air, cold water) over hard drving and soft driving

and you need to repeat all this on very hot afternoon

and the ecu is so stupid, it keeps going into autotune, whatever data you collected in the morning are erased when you autotune in the afternoon

hence you need to write downn on paper the parameters for water temp, air temp, vehicle speed over varying loads of tps, afm / map etc

analysis and morning and afternoon then manually key in temperature compensation and on and on and on and on.....

the question come back, do we have the so-called minimum base map??? if we don't even have something we can drive smooth without explosion coming out of our exhaust.....without polis pulling us to one side...

i prefer getting someone who knows fuel calculations to make one base map where we consider in theory the behaviouor of our engiine then continue.

without the fundamental, how do we troubleshoot in the future..... ???

again this is something same with suspension, everyone wants good setup, but no one bothers to record their changes, giving excuses.... don't know where to get data.......

ok lah, i stop lah.
 

rollakid

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no no speak more XD

so basically its like we got alot of variables that we need to key in before it can work properly lar? like all the fuel points and stuff... hmm.. does that mean if the ecu have 20 throtle position point and 20 point through out the rpm range that mean we have 400 setting needed to be done? *pengsan*
 

cuscostrutbrace

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rollakid said:
no no speak more XD

so basically its like we got alot of variables that we need to key in before it can work properly lar? like all the fuel points and stuff... hmm.. does that mean if the ecu have 20 throtle position point and 20 point through out the rpm range that mean we have 400 setting needed to be done? *pengsan*
You think its easy aaa,hehe..if it is,tuners dont charge you hundreds and thousands to tune your ecu.

Simply plugging freedom and hope the autotune sorts it all out and gives you outright power is not possible,i've tried.It stills require fine tuning,especially the ignition map.The autotune just work on the fueling only.

Freedom rewrites the fuel map value constantly with new ones,as it learns.Like Acoustic said,conditions are different hence it keeps learning,this could be not good sometimes,hence i locked the map after all learning finish.Cruising below 100kmh last nite gives me 14km/L,with afr 17
 

Acoustic

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wah, cuscostructbrace reminds of the thing most important, which is ignition.

anyway.... to rollakid again, that's 400 times water temp, and repeat 400 times air temp, and repeat and repeat

haiya,..... i not qualified too play stand alone ah, go back sleep lah.
 

rollakid

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Acoustic said:
wah, cuscostructbrace reminds of the thing most important, which is ignition.

anyway.... to rollakid again, that's 400 times water temp, and repeat 400 times air temp, and repeat and repeat

haiya,..... i not qualified too play stand alone ah, go back sleep lah.
hmm.. that means haltec need tune over 1000 time..
 

cuscostrutbrace

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The autotune function just makes thing easy for the tuner,let it auto tune and then adjusts where necessary only,dont have to adjust all area unlike other non-autotune ecu.As for the ignition,all have to be done without any help
 

rollakid

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queston: if you just want overall performance increase over the stock ecu, its better to get one of those bolt on ecu? like tom's ecu for specific engine. can those ecu support high duration cam? normally people who use programable ecu cuz they want to use higher duration cam that normal ecu can't support right?
 

speedchaser

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No need to tune 400 times la.

For a car without a base map. You need only to get a few base points on the map and you plot a workable graph on a worksheet. From there you get yourself a lambda and work out the AFR. After that you do up the ignition the same way, advancing it on NA as you go higher in the RPM and the other way round for boost. Fiddle around on the spark dwell time and you are set. Finally, it's the touch up on the idle, temp... etc. At the end of it all, load the data out and smoothen all the ranges in the graph on a worksheet and upload it back.

That's a rough idea to go about it, which I did when I tune..

Autotune is a hassle if you don't have the necessary tools. Wideband, accurate temp sensors and the like. If you do it with what you car came with (OEM) sensors and all, as you do fine tuning, in the end you might have a map that's totally different from what you have autotune with. It's not as simple as what people say when you can autotune and you come up with something perfect, unless maybe an Autronic which is way out of my league in terms of moolah$.

That's my 2 cents.
 

Useless

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protech is a simple standalone system. the simpler it is, easier to understand and start fiddling with the fueling and ignition. very straightforward. have not seen instability in the hardware/software. just minor hassle to upload a map when the engine dies while tuning. in standalone management, if car cannot fire up at cranking due to incorrect fuel/ignition mapping at that particular point, hold the throttle a little then start the car. 20V silvertop needs a good vacuum point as a reference for the protech standalone map sensor.

ecupro, maybe protech can incorporate a feature into the standalone whereby there is a reference from the injector signal to be output as injection time for the user's ease of tuning.

just my poor 2 cents.
useless
 

ecupro

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Daniel, please hold the dump "GATE"...i am comming....


Cuscostrutbrace, you are right, autotunr ecu only for fuel side and NOT for ignition side.

Danny101, I am SORRY to open it up (actually, the mechanic like to open it up for me to have a look, nice guy any way)...part of MI 4.....he..he..he...

Well, some pencil built with erase on top. If you write wrong, you erase it and correct it. Ha..ha..ha... Please do correct me if i am wrong.

For autotune ECU, there do have a map, A/F map and not a fuel map.

Normally, air temp. map and coolant temp. map is been set or tune (one line,16 X 1).

When tune the autotune ecu, you have to punch some value in A/F map like 16 X 16 ( rpm and loading ), loading can be map sensor or throttle sensor :

0 10 20 30 100% ( Loading )
0000 14.3 14.1 13.8
0500 14.3 14.1 13.6
1000 14.3 14.1 13.4 11.8
1500 14.7 14.5 13.2 12.0
2000 14.6 14.4 14.1 12.5
.
.
5000 14.2 14.0 12.5
.
.
8000 14.1 13.9 12.2

Then, do a light throttle and all the way to 8000
Then, do a light driving and finally, to full throttle.

Now, you can do fuel acceleration or fuel enrichment( to avoid flat sport )

(Acoustic, for idle, the injection tiime will be 2.0ms to 2.5 ms and not 20.0 ms)

So, the fuel value = A/F value + air temp. value + coolant temp. value + (enrichment or air-con)
and, finally, the microcontrolloer will re-calculate the value and inject the fuel.

For ignition, you have to set it yourself( normally, there come with ignition map also ) , by ear or "MSD Knonk display"

Daniel, do i have time...( No.....the....gate....will....CLOSE....ANY...SECOND.....)
 

ecupro

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Rollakid, just make a joke, it fit all sizes and length...he...he...he

Useless, first of all, thank you. When you tune the engine, you not need to see injection time,2.1ms...2.6ms...16.0ms, you need a A/F meter, then just key in "+" or "-" (change the value) on that particular "Real Time Cell"
For Haltech, you adjust the graph bar, for Hondata, you have to key in the "value"
So, the A/F meter is act a very IMPORTANT role here.

Tom's ECU user, due to low vaccum and high fluctuation of air flow ( High cam ),
map sensor and Hot air mass sensor will not work smoothly, therefore need throttle sensor as a load and Throttle Fuel map table will take over the Map Fuel Table. Got it. The Goodies of the PROTECH ECU had built in this function. ( Some others ECU also have this funtion too)

To all, with a GOOD ECU without modify engine, it don't work.
using STOCK ECU with modify engine, it don't work.
High fuel enrichment on Big Turbo, it don't work ( Because the turbo need time to spool up, therefore, no boost at all or very...very..slow)
 

Useless

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ecupro,

u cannot remember me? aiyo. support u so many years already.
i think using tps as a parameter to tune is not good for a daily driven mildly mod car. yes, if its a track car where most of the time the rev is kept to the top one third of the range. if the cams have huge overlap, i suppose idling at revs above 2k rpm would be a better choice. it allows the option to use the map sensor. wont begin to make much usable power below 2.5k rpm anyway.

when u going to introduce the millisecond feature into ur ecu? just spend another week coding the micro p la. hehe. then sure more ppl want to buy ur ecu.

cheers
useles
 

synchron

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ECUPRO!

Might be going up to Ipoh next week! Got time to go Dim sum in the morning ahh?
 

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