Myvi SE/Extreme 1.5 modifications

[tIANcI]

ixeo ... the picture just above is not useless. It's there for a purpose la. You are mistaken. The purpose is to make the buyer feel better and they seller to be richer. ROFL!!!

Get what you mean about the rear ARB pic, how does it flex torsionally? All said and done, BUT my stock CRZ rear ARB is about like that, however, it is in a slight U shape. I love the UR tower struts for the CRZ, they lie HORIZONTALLY, whilst with a U shape. Impressive design for strut bar? :) Have a look for yourself.

One has to be careful with UR stuff, I used a lot and it DOES work but this time for my CRZ, I am shocked. The UR tower struts probably give a 2.5% improvement. Hehehehee ... can hardly feel the difference at all.

 

[ixeo]

Strut tower bar is straightforward, hard to mess up. But many of their bars are questionable. But a lot of people buy it and feel good afterwards. Whatever rocks their boats I guess :)

its alright in the engine bay. I'd personally recommend giving it a coat of lime green paint or something. now its just mundane in a sporty looking CRZ

 

[tIANcI]

ixeo ... so far in cars like Myvi, Alza etc the tower strut works really well, its VERY obvious. As for the ARBs, on such cars the improvement is very noticeable too. However, for my bimmer ... sorry la ... go with the branded stuff. Hahahahaa ...

 

[Izso]

ixeo, I disagree with your statement about your last picture. Torsion beams are not solid pieces of metal like those found on trucks. They were designed to just hold the frame in place not as a strengthening piece. When cornering hard or not, these beams flex and that contributes to the bodyroll. Adding a "torsion beam strengthener" (not anti roll bar) just lessens the flexing.

I would agree that some bars are a complete waste of time but I disagree that this bar is useless. It's not as affective compared to a car without a torsion beam running on a antiroll bar, but it works nonetheless.

 

[ixeo]

ixeo, I disagree with your statement about your last picture. Torsion beams are not solid pieces of metal like those found on trucks. They were designed to just hold the frame in place not as a strengthening piece. When cornering hard or not, these beams flex and that contributes to the bodyroll. Adding a "torsion beam strengthener" (not anti roll bar) just lessens the flexing.

I would agree that some bars are a complete waste of time but I disagree that this bar is useless. It's not as affective compared to a car without a torsion beam running on a antiroll bar, but it works nonetheless.

http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_AntiRoll-Bars-and-Torsion-Beam-Rear-Suspensions-Part-1/A_112587/article.html

If one wheel rises and the other does not, the torsion beam must bend (to accommodate the different heights to which the trailing arms have risen) and it must also twist (because a turning moment occurs).

that bar is added to stop bending and stop twisting.
say what?

 

[tIANcI]

I love bendy torsion beams! Perfect for Malaysian roads. Made in Malaysia too. Where can I get a set? Hahaha ...

 

[ixeo]

I love bendy torsion beams! Perfect for Malaysian roads. Made in Malaysia too. Where can I get a set? Hahaha ...

Er, CRZ already comes with rear torsion beam. But thats made in land of rising sun and hentai.

 

[tIANcI]

Er, CRZ already comes with rear torsion beam. But thats made in land of rising sun and hentai.

ixeo ... I want BENDY one mah! Will be able to handle the uneven/twisty roads better. :)

 

[cvkit17]

hm...torsion beams does not really "bend" to the extend that we can see it with out eyes. Every material has something that is called tensile strength, which results in its ductility. Too stiff and hard a material, it will be brittle. Too ductile, it will be too flexible. Of course, the torsion beam is to hold the suspension system to make it rigid and distribute the force. Adding an anti roll bar will stiffen the suspension system - to distribute the force even better.

Stating a product as rubbish or garbage before any support evidence is well, kinda not professional. Coz if you see other rear anti roll products, most are designed this way, even good brands. Of course, if you compare street performance products and race performance products, there will be a huge difference, which only can be compensated by money. When engineers design a product, its not always the best thing wins. It is the balance between cost, quality& reliability and aesthetics. Look around, expensive things are often good, but do they always have the highest sales amount? No..made in China is rising...because their products quality n cost started to come to a balanced state. It serves the people well, and still affordable.

Back to arb...i cant find any arb that isnt connecting the left to the right. Well of course some are with bendings, but in the end they still connect these 2 points.

My purpose of creating this thread...is for people to share their modifications...Whether the product they have installed worth the money or satisfy them. No doubt there are rubbish products out there...but it is always good when one can tell how rubbish the particular product is with facts and experiences =) .

For myself, i am currently a user of UR bars...and for dat price, it served me well and i recommend it to my frens too. I had tried many other bars as well (of course, not on my own car). E.g front strut bar, one can get it for a very low price at many accessories store out there, and still it works. But the quality and fabrication have to give way to the low price. But hey !!! It works pretty much the same..unless u put a sensor to measure it, only u can see the difference lol...as long as it doesnt break apart, it is kinda useful

cheers and i hope more can share their good mods

 

[tIANcI]

cvkit ... We are not here to run down UR, also sorry to have high jacked it. I still believe in UR stuff, been telling a lot of ferns with Perodua to use it. Just that on my CRZ I saw some things that are most questionable. Back to Myvi mods!!!

 

[Izso]

http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_AntiRoll-Bars-and-Torsion-Beam-Rear-Suspensions-Part-1/A_112587/article.html



that bar is added to stop bending and stop twisting.
say what?

Er... I don't get you. I said the UR bar is a "torsion beam strengthener", not stiffener. So basically the article is just confirming what I said is true. Reducing flexing of the torsion beam.

 

[cvkit17]

cvkit ... We are not here to run down UR, also sorry to have high jacked it. I still believe in UR stuff, been telling a lot of ferns with Perodua to use it. Just that on my CRZ I saw some things that are most questionable. Back to Myvi mods!!!

Well im just making a general statement..not necessarily pointed to UR

Concerning the CRZ front strut...they must have a reason to bend it that way...mayb to avoid some parts or to create some stiffness at some point, i dont know...wish there's a designer of UR here or someone who can simulate these using a software like NX6 :rolleyes: kinda regret i dint really learn simulation software well enough last time

Btw, CRZ can get how many km/liter?

 

[tIANcI]

Well im just making a general statement..not necessarily pointed to UR

Concerning the CRZ front strut...they must have a reason to bend it that way...mayb to avoid some parts or to create some stiffness at some point, i dont know...wish there's a designer of UR here or someone who can simulate these using a software like NX6 :rolleyes: kinda regret i dint really learn simulation software well enough last time

Btw, CRZ can get how many km/liter?

CRZ engine bay is tights due to sloping design. So that is why UR took the easy way out. A good tower strut solution is by Spoon, it's a 4 point cage. Now I know why they went that route. Drive the CRZ gently and you can get about 20 kms/liter ... Not the most amazing but it's very decent. Also a very fun car to drive around.

 

[ixeo]

hm...torsion beams does not really "bend" to the extend that we can see it with out eyes. Every material has something that is called tensile strength, which results in its ductility. Too stiff and hard a material, it will be brittle. Too ductile, it will be too flexible. Of course, the torsion beam is to hold the suspension system to make it rigid and distribute the force. Adding an anti roll bar will stiffen the suspension system - to distribute the force even better.

Agreed. But the UR bar in the picture is NOT an anti roll bar. Say what? Again, look at the mounting points.

Stating a product as rubbish or garbage before any support evidence is well, kinda not professional. Coz if you see other rear anti roll products, most are designed this way, even good brands. Of course, if you compare street performance products and race performance products, there will be a huge difference, which only can be compensated by money. When engineers design a product, its not always the best thing wins. It is the balance between cost, quality& reliability and aesthetics. Look around, expensive things are often good, but do they always have the highest sales amount? No..made in China is rising...because their products quality n cost started to come to a balanced state. It serves the people well, and still affordable.

Not sure if you know UR's modus operandi. There's no "engineer" so I don't see how a product can be engineered when no engineer is present.

Back to arb...i cant find any arb that isnt connecting the left to the right. Well of course some are with bendings, but in the end they still connect these 2 points.

Correct. ARB connects left and right. But again, the item in the picture is not an ARB.

My purpose of creating this thread...is for people to share their modifications...Whether the product they have installed worth the money or satisfy them. No doubt there are rubbish products out there...but it is always good when one can tell how rubbish the particular product is with facts and experiences =) .

A lot people with the facts and experience don't want to share because the keyboard hero who just purchased the item will be bo siok if people tell him the item he just bought is rubbish. Smart people don't buy rubbish, idiots buy rubbish. If you say I buy rubbish means you say I idiot, sure keyboard war until cows come home.

For myself, i am currently a user of UR bars...and for dat price, it served me well and i recommend it to my frens too. I had tried many other bars as well (of course, not on my own car). E.g front strut bar, one can get it for a very low price at many accessories store out there, and still it works. But the quality and fabrication have to give way to the low price. But hey !!! It works pretty much the same..unless u put a sensor to measure it, only u can see the difference lol...as long as it doesnt break apart, it is kinda useful

cheers and i hope more can share their good mods

I never say UR no good, in fact I recommend the strut tower bar. But many of the other UR bars are questionable at best. I've already shown what a proper engineered lower arm bar looks like compared to the rubbish UR sells. If you feel offended, sorry, doesn't change the fact that item is rubbish.

Er... I don't get you. I said the UR bar is a "torsion beam strengthener", not stiffener. So basically the article is just confirming what I said is true. Reducing flexing of the torsion beam.

the torsion beam IS supposed to flex. it was designed to flex. why you stop a part that's supposed to flex from..well, flexing? get what i'm trying to say? the anti roll bar, that's a different story. again, look at the mounting point! then draw out on a piece of paper and imagine during movement what will happen. take into account the mounting spot and the thickness of the bar and compare to ARB designs.

HINT: if you STILL can't figure out, just imagine an ARB that is 3x too thick and imagine what will happen.

 

[cvkit17]

Is the point supposed to move? Or not? If its supposed to move why are you bolting the left to the right? LOL. A anti roll bar is not that thick and its designed to flex to a certain degree.. instead they came up with this..[/QUOTE]

I dont know what you are trying to say here, but i believe this is a lower arm bar. And an anti roll bar is of course not as thick as this, the these two bars are mounted very near to each other in most cars. Believe me, i have both and they work well. I guess i dont have to explain what's the difference between these two, as u had done ur research.

I dont knw the operation of UR and how does the company comes up with their products, but i'm kinda sure there's someone who designs the bar. Engineers or designers, you name it. R-35 is designed not by an engineer, but by a sales dude who ended up in plant production. If you get what i mean.

I guess you are smart enough to get a proper engineered lower arm bar at a very smart price. I have to admit, I do not know how proper is the proper lower arm bar is engineered and how rubbish is the improper lower arm bar. Never used both before and never simulate/calculate before. Since you know, mayb you can share your facts instead? Dont get me wrong here, as most people do think higher price item is better. Smart people buy dont buy rubbish, idiots buy rubbish, at a high price too.

On that article..its kinda contradicting with the statement you provided. In the article it states that stock torsion beam is designed not to be too stiff to make it fool proof. Adding an arb will reduce the flexing but too stiff a chasis will have the tendency to "lift" one side of the car up. Regarding the picture you had posted, what car is that and where did you get it? It seems to be a problem with the installation (my own opinion, of course). See the mounting point. The end of the bar is a round cylindrical like thing which should be bolted on horizontally and not vertically. But in this pic, it seems that the user installed the lower arm bar where it should be anti roll bar. And the bar shape looks flat, not round.

 

[ixeo]

izso: regarding rear lower bar, imagine instead the same mount point was WELDED by the exact same piece of metal. will the torsion beam still flex? that's the same effect of the UR bar anyway. except its bolted on, but there's still no give/slack there, its effective as welding it.

On that article..its kinda contradicting with the statement you provided. In the article it states that stock torsion beam is designed not to be too stiff to make it fool proof. Adding an arb will reduce the flexing but too stiff a chasis will have the tendency to "lift" one side of the car up. Regarding the picture you had posted, what car is that and where did you get it? It seems to be a problem with the installation (my own opinion, of course). See the mounting point. The end of the bar is a round cylindrical like thing which should be bolted on horizontally and not vertically. But in this pic, it seems that the user installed the lower arm bar where it should be anti roll bar. And the bar shape looks flat, not round.

You seem to understand, but at the same time I'm not sure if you do.

The car is a Myvi
The product is UR Rear Strut Bar or Rear Lower Bar or whatever you call it.

1. What is the function of the rear lower bar? Stop flexing
2. What is the function of anti roll bar? Reduce roll to a certain extend by reducing flex, the thickness affects how much roll/flex is reduced. The ARB will still flex.
3. What is the function of torsion beam? To flex, as per the article.

3+2 = reduced roll, one is trying to flex, one reduces flex but it is still flexible, ARBs are very thin, for myvi usually 16mm or 19mm in diameter.
3+1 = one is trying to flex, one is trying to stop flex entirely, that rear lower bar WILL NOT flex. look at the thickness. its same gauge as the front strut bar. so the force from the torsion bar will fight with the lower arm bar, and see which one fails first. And guess who wins?

lucky the torsion bar worn, else its gonna be a very expensive bill.

so.. draw your own conclusion if the rear lower bar is rubbish or not. I think its pretty clear, can't help if you catch no ball.

For UR, the stuff that are fundamentally same and R&D (robbed & duplicated) from Japanese counterparts like anti roll bar, strut tower bar works. its simple and straightforward. that being said I will be buying a UR strut tower bar for my mum's new car. Shit happens when they try to engineer their own crap.

and how does DSPORT with real Japanese engineers does it? You know how the rear dsport lower arm bar looks like? and how it mounts?
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/siawkk82/DSCN0662.jpg
they brace the chassis to reduce flexing on the chassis.

thats engineering.
so yeah, quit dreaming lah, you really do get what you pay for.

and its not expensive. the cost of buying a Cusco strut tower bar for the Myvi and the Lancer EVO for example, costs almost the same. You know why? Because the same amount of research & development and the same quality goes into it. want to be cheap don't play car, go play gran turismo on ps3. you're better off NOT modifying your car if you are going to install rubbish on to it (surbo, UR rear lower bar etc.)

 

[cvkit17]

Err.. I don't knw which version of myvi UR bar is that. The one I'd seen and always see is totally different. Yes, UR duplicates the products from others.. Myvi Arb is duplicated from Passo and the shape, and mounting points are exactly the same. Not so sure bout the material though. Shall post a pic very soon =) now using hp very susah

 

[ixeo]

Saw the "new design" you're talking about.
Guess I am referring to the "old design"

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4773/41/24430020011_large.jpg

pity the fools who bought the old one. no idea about the new one, basically I don't waste my time looking at UR except for the common items.

 

[cvkit17]

well then you should look into them =)

It's like Japanese cars when they first rolled out from the factory, their quality and reliability are well, to you, might be rubbish. The americans laughed. But hey~ now the japs are laughing back. U knw 1 thing that japanese are good in? They are innovative. They are well, no offense, not that creative as westside countries. That's why improved "original" products are good and affordable..just like the GT-R. Well of course, after a few models.

It is good that you finally got the first correct part of the research or it might just be a waste of your time unfortunately since u're arent a fan of UR products or other cheap products. But its good that you mind to share your knowledge in this wonderful forum where everybody can get info easier than before. Of course, written does not necessarily means proven. Perhaps you can share more of your awesome branded mods? It'll be fun to hear how a myvi can be modified into a better car

 

[Izso]

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4773/41/24430020011_large.jpg

erm.. This isn't like the Passo one at all right? The older "C" shaped one is more like the Passo one?

Ixeo, even with the bar in place it allows the torsion to be flexed la. There were two models, the 16mm and the 19mm one. The 19mm one was the one that was ripping out the bolts and all because it was too stiff (exactly as what you said with regards to the welding) but the 16mm is just nice and still allows for flexing. Let me do the experiement and take a pic. You can see for yourself. Anyway, in terms of feel, nothing beats the ARB in my Wira but that's not the fault of the bar, it's the chassis design. Me no likey torsion beam.