Local ECU

[Joeker]

Yo Pro!!

I really respect you.

I thought you'd probably post a link to a renown tuner or a proven tech mod company to make your point across about the air fuel ratio and 02 voltage relation that you posted earlier

THe link you posted is a link to a D.I.Y site.

I don't know about you, but when I read things posted in the internet ESPECIALLY DIY sites, I'd take them with a pinch of salt.

I'm no professor of any field nor a tuner of any sort, just an average automotive enthusiast.

I can however read plain & simple english though and I can't help but notice a disclaimer by the author of the DIY A/F ratio meter web link that you posted, which reads :

"....Please keep in mind that this is for the non modifed gauges and in the the measurements are in the wider resolution mode. This should be pretty close, but don't hold me to these values....."

If I'm not mistaken, when 02 voltage is about 0.45 volt (450 milivolts) the air fuel ratio is stoich (14.7 : 1).

 

[Joeker]

Heres an article I copied from a reliable mod part producer.

Narrow Band Lambda - Narrow Band Lambda provides an output voltage between .1v and 1.0v dc based on the oxygen differential between the exhaust pipe and the atmosphere.

This can give an indication of the air fuel ratio at which the engine is running however the sensor range is limited to ratios of about 14.0:1 (1.0v) and 15.4:1(.1v). At ratios beyond this range, the sensor output does not increase or decrease making it virtually useless for tuning an engine for anything other than steady state cruising.

The advantage of Narrow Band Lambda comes into play while trying to keep emissions in check. The sensor provides a signal to the ECU which basically indicates either rich (output voltage above .5v air fuel less than 14.7) or lean (output voltage below .5v air fuel greater than 14.7) but really does not describe to what degree the mixture is either rich or lean.

This is fits perfectly in with the need for "perturbation" of today's 3 way catalysts which need excess air to catalyze Hydrocarbon and Carbon Monoxide, and excess fuel with which to reduce Oxides of Nitrogen. Because of this requirement by the catalyst, Narrow Band Lambda Control is constantly varying the air/fuel ratio both slightly above and below 14.7:1 in such a manner that the average air fuel ratio is maintained at 14.7:1.

Most engines in use today, produce peak power with air fuel ratios in the 12:1 - 13.5:1 range well below the measuring capability of a narrow band lambda sensor. It is for this reason that Narrow Band Lambda is of no help for high loads and or RPM's.

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

I agree,narrow band never shows what the airfuel ratio really is,it is either lean or rich,anything greater than 14.7 is regarded as lean,it could be any numbers,vice versa for rich situation.The ecu just keeps the mixture somewhere in between during closed loop mode.

 

[ecupro]

joeker,
You quote :
"I don't know about you, but when I read things posted in the internet ESPECIALLY DIY sites, I'd take them with a pinch of salt."

Bro, you as a moderator, how can you say like that!
How about member on your web site feel!
How people feel for you!

Please don't just pinch point the bad things, you also give some credit point to all,right!

After all, we just want to help,right!

I hope you are not like "PROTON......"

Any way, every body know how to search some sites,right!

To all,
Just for ref.

Here you are:
http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/afgauge.htm

httP://www.zeitronix.com/Products/O2Meter/O2Meter.htm

and joeker, this one for you....he...he...he

http://members.rennlist.com/martintaylor/new.htm

Arrr......carefully with the O2 sensor. Honda O2 sensor would not work ( seem to be on wide band ). Either indicate on lean or rich only.

cuscostrutbrace,
You are demoted.....he....he....he

Good Luck.

 

[ecupro]

To all,
Sorry, key in wrong site again.

Here you are:
http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/afgauge.html

Good Luck.

 

[lan evo]

joeker:im so happy,because i got apexi af timer.now i can ask my tuner who dun have wideband to tune with my rm2++ narrow band af meter:X-:

ecupro:thanks for the good info

 

[ecupro]

lan evo,
You quote :
"ecupro:any complete tuned demo car from u?interested to see.whats the price for the ecu?"

My car but not tuned for Sepang or 0 ~ 400.
No adv please. But can reach me 017-5730716

Sorry for the delay post. May be pic will be post ( My car demo )
Where you stay ?

Too all,
Thank you for the support on my small R & D room.

Good Luck.

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

now it becomes more confusing,so many ideas

 

[ecupro]

Well, use your force. ( Star War )
Trust your feel and view.

You know, in China, there is a lot of "Si Fu".....he....he...he


Good Luck

 

[Joeker]

joeker:im so happy,because i got apexi af timer.now i can ask my tuner who dun have wideband to tune with my rm2++ narrow band af meter

Nomura-Ken

I'm glad you are happy!! I'm also very happy too because now tuned engines no need to send their cars to any wide band tuners anymore.

THey can easily tune with narrow band.

I feel so stupid to have spent so much money to tune my engine with wideband and dyno. I really feel so stupid now.

I wish Profesor ECU came along earlier and teach us about narrow band tuning earlier.

Gee, with this innovative breakthrough in engine tuning with narrow band 02 sensor, I think the whole lot of them so called "tuners" in Sunway are going to close shop soon. Serve them right for ripping us off with their wide band tuning and over charging us. God dammit!!!

I'm so happy Prefessor ECU taught us so many things about ECU tuning and all.

I did'nt realize that engines performance can be tuned with narrow band until now

Thanks ECUPro!! (you truly are THE Gandalf of engine tuning)

THanks for posting all the websites about narrow band A/F ratio gauges and the detail technical knoweledge of tuning with narrow band 02 sensor. If you did'nt post it, probrably we will not know about it.

ECUpro, you're the man!!

 

[Joeker]

Oh by the way, the article which I posted earlier was copied from MOTEC's site.
Heres the link anyway, http://www.motec.com/products/ecu/tutorial.htm

But hey!, other than producing hi performance tuning parts for engines, what the hell does this company called MOTEC know about tuning, right?

 

[ecupro]

joeker,

Thank you to get me a Big credit here.
I think is much better for all member and "Si Fu" out there, right!...ha..ha..ha

Once again, thanks, joeker.

Actually, narrow band AF is for ref ( at least you engine can last longer ) or for poor men.

Actually, wide band AF is much much better but quit costly. But, don't let the price fool you, it is very good. it have data logging for 45 minutes and some input channel, say map sensor, throttle sensor and others.( run on window base )

This device is LM-1, price about RM1800.00~ 2000.00 ( Not adv please ..he..he..he )

I think can get it in K.L, somewhere.....motor shop...ask around...o.k.

Good Luck.

 

[Joeker]

Hey!! you're welcome!!

I always give credit where credit is due!

But you sure know your stuff about narrow band 02 sensor tuning and DIY sites.

anyway, from this post onwards, i'll try my best to resign myself to just reading on this particular thread because I think this narrow band 02 sensor tuning is too way over my weekend-engine-tweeker league and I think a knowledgeable tuner such as yourself should take centre stage.

Please continue to enlighten us of your great wisdom.

THanks Profesor ECU!

 

[Joeker]

Actually, wide band AF is much much better but quit costly. But, don't let the price fool you, it is very good. it have data logging for 45 minutes and some input channel, say map sensor, throttle sensor and others.( run on window base )

This device is LM-1, price about RM1800.00~ 2000.00 ( Not adv please ..he..he..he )

Opps, sorry to disturb your prime time. i just feel i want to add something here.

LM-1? I believe you are refering to Innovate wide band system. But I think its waste of money to buy so expensive wide band system because I can use narrow band and narrow band can detect 11.6 ~ 16.5 : 1 A/F ratio. This is more than enough. rite? and if the ratio goes 18, engine would have probably ka-boom.

Bro, you must be a great joeker.( sorry to say that ), because for turbo car, normally the figure is 10.5 to 12.8
By the time the af goto 18, i think your engine already bow.

The actual reading is :

0.1v - 16.5
0.2v - 15.5
0.3v - 15.2( Lean )
0.4v - 14.9
0.5v - 14.8
0.6v - 14.7( stoich )
0.7v - 13.6
0.8v - 12.6( Rich )
0.9v - 11.6

And if its too lean or too rich just add or minus the A/F ratio until you get a reading or value la.

so u just enrich or enlean the mixtures till u see a value, no problem.

I learn something new eveyday!! Thanks ECUpro

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

It looks like the NARROW band is not so narrow after all,and the WIDE band is not so wide either.It seems that the narrow band sensor output is most accurate in the 14-15 afr region.Anything above and below that not so accurate,the voltage output resolution graph is parabolic.

 

[ecupro]

cuscostrutbrace,
You quote :
"It seems that the narrow band sensor output is most accurate in the 14-15 afr region.Anything above and below that not so accurate,the voltage output resolution graph is parabolic."

Bro, you are right. But, just for ref only ( at least you don't brow your turbo engine )

So, like i say, wide band is much much better. The output voltage is 0.0 to 5.0V and it is liner graphic ( much more acurate )

Good Luck.

 

[ecupro]

joeker,
You quote :
"LM-1? I believe you are refering to Innovate wide band system"

Yes, you are right.

 

[140dB]

sometimes we gotta take the BIG manufacturers words wif a little salt. they are a BUSINESS anyhow. and u know businessess. profit is a keyword.

i saw a dyno of a gsr post 96 (enjin terbalik) wif apexi pen type tt. i didnt expect the a/f to track the reading on the DYNO DYNAMICS wideband so closely. almost too good to be true! of course this is a sensor from a turbo car so i expect it to be 'slightly wider band'??? is there such a thing? but.....the fact remains.....the apex rm250 turbo timer worked very well for this engine....

i still stand by a good wideband, if i had a choice, but if not, a narrow band can do wonders too. not perfect, but then hey, who is?

 

[ecupro]

140db,
You quote :
"i still stand by a good wideband, if i had a choice, but if not, a narrow band can do wonders too. not perfect, but then hey, who is?"

Bro, you are right. At least narrow band to tune the engine.
Those want to do the BUSINESS, should have a wide-band.

Wide-band AF is much much better.

To all,

Do not install a wide band O2 sensor or modify it and put into a narrow band tools or device.( unless you know how to )

Nowaday, wide band sensor come with 5 to 7 wires.

Good Luck.

 

[xbalance2002]

aliyatech ,
hello brother...how is your ECU doing?? any update?? any news??