Hpf & lpf

[AD_EG]

hi sifus,

need some assitance/advice on tuning techniques. please dont shoot me down..im seriously a newbie and just wanna have some decent sound.

HU:kenwood DPX-MP2090U
Front : Rainbox Component Set
Rear : Alpine DD Drive Midbass.

thats it. no amps. no woofers.

i dont wanna add in all that until i find absolutely neccesary.

High Pass Filter.

i know the function is to filter certain freq, this ive set

there is Front HPF & Rear HPF. my front i know im suppose to set it higher to filter out lower frequencies, so ive done that...but im confused bout the Rear. cause i want the rear to only produce bass and minimal sound, does that mean i should set it at the lowest possible which is 40hz?

i basically want to optimize the rear speakers for mainly bass

from the research ive done, normally ppl use LPF to adjust their bass on woofer, so in my case i dont have a woofer, so LPF doesnt apply to me right?

another thing im confused about is. Bass Center Freq, Q factor and Bass extend, then Mid Center Freq and Mid Q factor, and for Treble center Freq. do you normally adjust all this settings? or u only adjust what you want to prioritize on? meaning u want more or better bass..u only adjust the bass and dont adjust the mids n treble? or it all can be tuned ?

sorry guys for the lengthy questions...just really confused. wanna know if there is any tips can be given based on my setup...i listen to trance,vocal trance,dance, so SQ is very important and so is the bass

 

[Zenn]

if u want the rear to produce bass only u need LPF, not HPF
if u want minimal sound, should set fader more to front

since your speaker isnt a sub, just a midbass u need a bandpass filter, which is both lowpass and highpass, so u can limit both high and lows so it plays whats in between, dont think your player has that.

 

[ddv_nk12]

Bro ad_eg playing ICE already?? Depending on your ears, your set up is good already. If you have expensive ears, then maybe you need to add an amp at least.

I'm not an ICE pro but I can tell the little things I know. For SQ, usually people use front comp and rear sub. No speakers at the rear. But still, you can use it if you don't plan on getting a sub. In fact, I am also having like this in my car. So, I use the fader thing more biased to the front.

Tuning to me is best done by yourself. Why? Because you are listening to it. Of course, the pro's know what they're doing and will surely produce better sound than us. If you ask me, there are a lot of things to set, HPF, LPF, TA and so many with numbers and all. I don't know what are those. But I still play with it and tune according to my liking. That's just me. Hehe. IF there's something I wanna learn to use in my HU is the TA. I don't understand how it works. Hehe.

Good luck in tuning bro.

 

[AD_EG]

if u want the rear to produce bass only u need LPF, not HPF
if u want minimal sound, should set fader more to front

since your speaker isnt a sub, just a midbass u need a bandpass filter, which is both lowpass and highpass, so u can limit both high and lows so it plays whats in between, dont think your player has that.

thanks bro... so what i did was was: Rear HPF = 40hz. i should remove this ? set it to off/0 or something right? or should i keep it there?

so the LPF setting that i have only applies if i have a woofer?

will try playing with fader and see if i can work out what i want.

sifu zen can please help clear my confusion on this as well ?

another thing im confused about is. Bass Center Freq, Q factor and Bass extend, then Mid Center Freq and Mid Q factor, and for Treble center Freq. do you normally adjust all this settings? or u only adjust what you want to prioritize on? meaning u want more or better bass..u only adjust the bass and dont adjust the mids n treble? or it all can be tuned ?

Bro ad_eg playing ICE already?? Depending on your ears, your set up is good already. If you have expensive ears, then maybe you need to add an amp at least.

I'm not an ICE pro but I can tell the little things I know. For SQ, usually people use front comp and rear sub. No speakers at the rear. But still, you can use it if you don't plan on getting a sub. In fact, I am also having like this in my car. So, I use the fader thing more biased to the front.

Tuning to me is best done by yourself. Why? Because you are listening to it. Of course, the pro's know what they're doing and will surely produce better sound than us. If you ask me, there are a lot of things to set, HPF, LPF, TA and so many with numbers and all. I don't know what are those. But I still play with it and tune according to my liking. That's just me. Hehe. IF there's something I wanna learn to use in my HU is the TA. I don't understand how it works. Hehe.

Good luck in tuning bro.

not really playing la bro..just trying to get the best with what i got kind of thing...i was always into ice, just that performance was more important to me...so now only just wanna learn and tweak.

ur right about we being our own tuners...thats why i never bothered to send to any shops and such...i know jb got quite a few.

just wanted to see if there was any tips and pointers i can use to get better sound.

 

[Zenn]

just set the rear to hpf 40, it will still play some midbass
lpf 40 kenot bcoz its beyond the speaker's capabilities, but for woofer can la

the other questions u asked is about the equiliser, which i almost never use, and im also not that familiar with pioneer, me & my frens mostly alpine

it looks like u have a 3 band eq, which u can increase or reduce 3 bands of frequencies (low, mid and high), and the q factor denotes how wide or narrow u want the band to be, so if u want specific frequency to be adjusted use lower q, if u want a bunch of frequencies adjusted together use a larger Q

 

[AD_EG]

just set the rear to hpf 40, it will still play some midbass
lpf 40 kenot bcoz its beyond the speaker's capabilities, but for woofer can la

the other questions u asked is about the equiliser, which i almost never use, and im also not that familiar with pioneer, me & my frens mostly alpine

it looks like u have a 3 band eq, which u can increase or reduce 3 bands of frequencies (low, mid and high), and the q factor denotes how wide or narrow u want the band to be, so if u want specific frequency to be adjusted use lower q, if u want a bunch of frequencies adjusted together use a larger Q

thank you so much bro...

about the Q factor...still dont quite understand..from what i understand when u say narrow or widen the band ur refering to like the bell graph right? hope cna provide me an example on what a bunch or specific frequency mean... :shot:

 

[6UE5t]

hi sifus,

need some assitance/advice on tuning techniques. please dont shoot me down..im seriously a newbie and just wanna have some decent sound.

HU:kenwood DPX-MP2090U
Front : Rainbox Component Set
Rear : Alpine DD Drive Midbass.

thats it. no amps. no woofers.

i dont wanna add in all that until i find absolutely neccesary.

High Pass Filter.

i know the function is to filter certain freq, this ive set

there is Front HPF & Rear HPF. my front i know im suppose to set it higher to filter out lower frequencies, so ive done that...but im confused bout the Rear. cause i want the rear to only produce bass and minimal sound, does that mean i should set it at the lowest possible which is 40hz?

i basically want to optimize the rear speakers for mainly bass

from the research ive done, normally ppl use LPF to adjust their bass on woofer, so in my case i dont have a woofer, so LPF doesnt apply to me right?

another thing im confused about is. Bass Center Freq, Q factor and Bass extend, then Mid Center Freq and Mid Q factor, and for Treble center Freq. do you normally adjust all this settings? or u only adjust what you want to prioritize on? meaning u want more or better bass..u only adjust the bass and dont adjust the mids n treble? or it all can be tuned ?

sorry guys for the lengthy questions...just really confused. wanna know if there is any tips can be given based on my setup...i listen to trance,vocal trance,dance, so SQ is very important and so is the bass

IMHO (but note that I'm a newbie ya) for the front, you still make it full range, meaning you bypass the HPF. The reason is because you don't have a sub yet (and assuming your modbass in the rear is not larger than 6.5 inch), so you should try to maximise what ever bass you can still get. If you set the HPF high at the front, I'd think the overall sound of your system will be too weak and thin. More over if you set it like that and try to rely on the rear midbass for the full bas duty, then your sound staging will get pulled to the rear so it will be all over the place which to me is not good. Or another option is just to set the HPF at the front to be pretty low, say at 40Hz, so that it helps limit your front not to overwork producing too low frequency bass which is supposed to be for sub.
As for the rear, since you only have midbass, ideally you need to limit high & low frequency using band pass filter. Since you only have HPF, then again I suggest you set it at a pretty low frequency, say 40Hz again so that you get some bass again. Then on top of that, it's better that you set your fader control more to the front, say at around 65-80% position to the front, cause you should make your sound staging & imaging more to the front. If you leave it 50/50 in the middle, then the sound will get pulled a bit to the rear so again the sound staging will be more messy.

As for your EQ question, it's all up to your ears so we cannot tell you which would sound the best since everyone has different taste and we also cannot hear your system. So everything might need to be adjusted depending on how your system sounds and how you like it to be. In general, the larger the bell shape in your EQ (which is dictated by the Q factor setting), means your setting will have a broader frequency effect around that center frequency. If the shape is narrower, that means your setting will be more focused toward that center frequency with less/more minimal impact on the surrounding frequencies. Setting EQ will take quite some time so you need to be patient.

My suggestion is minimal you need to get a bandpass filter for your rear midbass. But of course it will be way much better if you get a power amp and a sub (minimal 10 inch).

 

[AD_EG]

1st of all i just want to say thank you for taking the time and effort to reply for the above explanation.

i now have a better understanding on the freq and will try out that setting tonight. You are right bout the sound kind of being all over the place... today me and my gf noticed we can hear the back speakers during the vocal parts of the song...so that cant be good...

im going to reduce front HPF to 40hz, and see how that works out and play with the fader...and play around with the other settings..thanks again bro...

 

[Izso]

6UE5t - Wah.. you said you're a noobie with all that? You sound like you know your beans man! So are you one with a anaconda poisoner setup in your car?

AD_EG : I think there's some confusion here. I'm not a Kenwood person so I won't assume I know how it works but from my understanding of ICE this is what I think :

HPF = high pass filter. Meaning whatever frequency you set and above will be sent to the speakers. Meaning if you set HPF at 40hz, everything above 40hz will be sent to the speakers.

LPF = low pass filter. Meaning whatever frequency you set and below will be played on the speakers.

BPF = Bandpass filter. This will specify the range between high and low to play. Meaning if you set bandpass at 80 to 4000hz, then it'll only play between that range.

So if it's bass you're after, you should be setting LPF to the rear at around 100hz or 80hz assuming your speakers can handle it.

Here's my advice, I assume your front components are using a passive crossover? If yes then for the front play full range (no filtering) since the passive is already doing the filtering. For the rear set the LPF to 100hz. Then set the fader to +2 front (or more).

Check that you have everything in-phase, meaning positive speaker output to positive connector at the speaker. Negative to negative. Some say reversed might sound good but to me it never has so I usually insist on in-phase setup.

Lastly, install that free amp and sub la.

 

[AD_EG]

Sup Izso my man

HPF: so normally ppl use this to make sure the higher freq comes out nicely cause it filters out the below frequencies on what ever you set...meaning if you set it at 80hz, any freq below that wont come through. Right?

LPF: anything u set will will not pass that selected freq. So if i set it @ 40hz, any freq higher than that wont pass..

the problem im facing. My player settings : Front HPF, Rear HPF, LPF.

it doesnt have front or rear LPF. so im taking bro 6uest advice, setting the front n Rear on 40hz, and play with the fader and just play around with my settings and try to work something out.

hmm thats a good point also checking if everything is in-phase, but, how will i know for sure if its correct? the wiring from HU im not sure which is + or - cause the installer did it for me.

and lastly bout the woofer, after tweeking my current setup. if i feel its still lacking,guess ill just install the woofer la. hehe...

 

[Izso]

Correct about the HPF and LPF.

http://manual.kenwood.com/files/B64-3433-00_English.pdf

Ok I get it now. Based on the manual you setting the LPF or HPF isn't going to make a difference since you're not using an amp. If no amp means you're using the speaker wires from the player itself so you can't control the HPF/LPF. So don't bother.

Only thing you can do is play with the fader and plug in the sub! Once you do that then the LPF can be used after you turn on 2zone mode and switch it to sub-woofer preout mode (instead of rear preout).

 

[AD_EG]

hmm but when i tune the HPF rear n Front, there is changes and there is a big/noticeable improvement in the music..

 

[Izso]

You have a strange HU.

Do you have it set to dual zone mode or something? Or are you fiddling with the inbuilt EQ? Suggest you leave the filtering to full then just adjust with EQ la. I don't see any point in cutting out the frequencies for your full range speakers or how that would improve sound quality other than increasing the dB.

Or... you could continue fiddling with it until you make it sound ideal for your ears and never touch the settings again.

 

[AD_EG]

hahahahaha...The HU and owner same la bro...

no bro the dual zone is not on..

now im confused bro...these settings HPF etc cant be applied in my setup and i should just use the standard bass,mid,treble settings?

 

[Izso]

hahahahaha...The HU and owner same la bro...

no bro the dual zone is not on..

now im confused bro...these settings HPF etc cant be applied in my setup and i should just use the standard bass,mid,treble settings?

If you look at the manual, it says for the LPF and HPF to work, 2ZONE thingy has to be on. Since yours is not on it means whatever you fiddle with there won't work.

 

[AD_EG]

alamak bro

ok..from what i understand.

2zone - to play 2 different source. meaning front lets say AUX, and rear USB

based on the manual. it says u can only control *2 (HPF,LPF,SUB), if 2zone set to 'OFF'.

 

[6UE5t]

6UE5t - Wah.. you said you're a noobie with all that? You sound like you know your beans man! So are you one with a anaconda poisoner setup in your car?

AD_EG : I think there's some confusion here. I'm not a Kenwood person so I won't assume I know how it works but from my understanding of ICE this is what I think :

HPF = high pass filter. Meaning whatever frequency you set and above will be sent to the speakers. Meaning if you set HPF at 40hz, everything above 40hz will be sent to the speakers.

LPF = low pass filter. Meaning whatever frequency you set and below will be played on the speakers.

BPF = Bandpass filter. This will specify the range between high and low to play. Meaning if you set bandpass at 80 to 4000hz, then it'll only play between that range.

So if it's bass you're after, you should be setting LPF to the rear at around 100hz or 80hz assuming your speakers can handle it.

Here's my advice, I assume your front components are using a passive crossover? If yes then for the front play full range (no filtering) since the passive is already doing the filtering. For the rear set the LPF to 100hz. Then set the fader to +2 front (or more).

Check that you have everything in-phase, meaning positive speaker output to positive connector at the speaker. Negative to negative. Some say reversed might sound good but to me it never has so I usually insist on in-phase setup.

Lastly, install that free amp and sub la.

Hehehe, seriously, I'm just another noobie who just has a little hobby on cars. I'm not like experts who can make money out of this stuff already. My current car audio is still pretty basic as well, no subs & power amp cause no time to shop around yet.
You also sound like you know this stuff pretty well here.

 

[Izso]

alamak bro

ok..from what i understand.

2zone - to play 2 different source. meaning front lets say AUX, and rear USB

based on the manual. it says u can only control *2 (HPF,LPF,SUB), if 2zone set to 'OFF'.

Aiks.. did I read the manual incorrectly then? Ok I'm giving up. GOOD LUCK!




6uest : I was (and to a certain extent-still am) a hardcore ICEr that followed all the brands of yesteryear like the legendary red giant - the Orion HCCA G4/G5 and all that, up until the latest brands of Helix, Brax, TRU and the now closed down Genesis. Just that my car was never up to the levels of those with big budgets. Poor buggers like me don't get to go that far!

 

[AD_EG]

hahahaha its ok bro...i tend to have that effect on ppl.

you preety much helped clear quite a few matters for me..so over the weekend will fine tune my audio see how that goes...if it meets expectation then its all good.

if not, ill just give that thai amp/sub a try.. hehe thanks bro.

 

[GRexer]

Ok.. I've briefly gone thru the user manual. Apparently the "2ZON" Dual Zone System is for those who have a MPV, have 2 different sources, and wants to seperate maybe the driver's cabin(listening to raido) and rear cabin's(kids watching DVD for example) audio source. Irrelevant here I suppose so that should be turned off.

As for your setup at the moment, I believe the crossover settings DOES matter even though you are still running on the HU power and not amps. At least, on my Pioneer(s) and Alpine(s), they did mattered, too long never fiddled with Kenwood setups but I believe they should be the same. I have had some low budget setups for friends that used the 3-way capable HUs to run the 2-way components via the HU and a small subwoofer/amp to compliment.

I would recommend you try fading all towards the front first, then try out each setting of the Front High Pass Filter to Through(no filters), 40, 60 and 80. See which of it do you like. Personally I would stick with 60 or 80 but I usually have subwoofers to back me up. Once you've done that, set the rear HPF to similar as the Front LPF, then slowly Fade it toward the rear, until you can noticeably hear the sound being pulled to the back, then back it down one or two levels.

That should be about it. It would be better if you could bandpass the rear to run between the front HPF frequency and about up to 200MHz, or get a cheap crossover to hook up the rear mid-bass so that they play until a certain range only. You could also add a coil (inductor) with roughly a 3.2-3.3 mHy(millihenry) before the speaker terminals to create a cheap 6dB 200Mhz Low Pass Filter(and coupled with the High Pass Filter setting in your HU, creates a bandpass filter)

After that you might want to venture into EQ-ing, looks like your unit has a pseudo parametric EQ of sorts, but for EQing, I can't comment much as it's all down to personal taste.

Always trust yourself to do the tuning if possible, as it's your pair of ears, so, you're the one who knows what sounds better to you.

p/s: Sorry for being such an old fart and posting such a long post.