4AGE bhp figures from dyno

[nappx]

how to dyno on engine?? dismantle all driveshaft and transmission??? how they measure power on ur flywheel??

good question...

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

how to dyno on engine?? dismantle all driveshaft and transmission??? how they measure power on ur flywheel??

I'm no expert but here's what I know;

The answer to that question is both, yes & no.

Yes, in the sense that some of them really does that. They have a lab looking place where they hook the engine up on a different type of dyno (I can't recall what they call it) & really only dyno the engine alone (removed from the car, minus the transmission & stuff). But here in M'sia I think only Proton has that machine, so I heard.

No, in the sense that most dyno shops I've seen is probably done through a calculation through the dyno machine. Generally on older engines, is about 25% loss when the power gets thru to the wheels. Auto trans suffer more transmission loss; at about 30%.

So I'm guessing that Scottwrx's figure should be somewhere around:

160 x 0.75 = 120 ps on wheel as shown in the bottom graph like he said.

My BT AT is 112 ps on wheel; standard. So the calculation should be: 160 x 0.7 = 112 ps on wheel.

 

[nappx]

maybe can arrange a dayno with same machine one day

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

maybe can arrange a dayno with same machine one day

Actually if it the dyno's been been calibrated properly, the figures will not differ much; just as in a weighing scale. I think probably the temperature during the dyno will have a much significant difference.

 

[sache]

so need to put refrigerator or few buckle of ice to get cold air intake to increase HP?

 

[wilm3]

I'm no expert but here's what I know;

The answer to that question is both, yes & no.

Yes, in the sense that some of them really does that. They have a lab looking place where they hook the engine up on a different type of dyno (I can't recall what they call it) & really only dyno the engine alone (removed from the car, minus the transmission & stuff). But here in M'sia I think only Proton has that machine, so I heard.

No, in the sense that most dyno shops I've seen is probably done through a calculation through the dyno machine. Generally on older engines, is about 25% loss when the power gets thru to the wheels. Auto trans suffer more transmission loss; at about 30%.

So I'm guessing that Scottwrx's figure should be somewhere around:

160 x 0.75 = 120 ps on wheel as shown in the bottom graph like he said.

My BT AT is 112 ps on wheel; standard. So the calculation should be: 160 x 0.7 = 112 ps on wheel.

good question...

yaa i think u r refering to Engine Dynamometer and Chassis Dynamometer.
hmm...if they r using the chassis type...then there's no point tat quote the Engine horse power since it's just an estimation better refer to Wheel horse power since different design of transmission vary its losses. some good design of transmission might be just 10% of transmission lost.

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Perhaps he was referring to a dyno which is connected to the wheel axle (aka chassis dyno). Without the wheels, it could be freeing up a few more ponies... I guess.

http://www.blacktrax.net/images/ServicesPicts/tn_Dyno.jpg
http://www.dynopack.co.nz/

Engine dyno is usually not available to the public and owned by famous tuners, auto manufacturers and racing team (F1).

http://ae86-parts.e-impulse.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/6.JPG

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

so need to put refrigerator or few buckle of ice to get cold air intake to increase HP?

Go try it out on the dyno & you'll find out if it's true that temperature makes any difference in the output figures, bro.

yaa i think u r refering to Engine Dynamometer and Chassis Dynamometer.
hmm...if they r using the chassis type...then there's no point tat quote the Engine horse power since it's just an estimation better refer to Wheel horse power since different design of transmission vary its losses. some good design of transmission might be just 10% of transmission lost.

Like I said, I'm no expert but I'm guessing that the flywheel Hp figures is derived from an estimation based on the wheel Hp. Any pros/sifus can confirm on this theory of mine ? Pls correct me if I'm wrong, guys.

I agree with what wilm3 said coz different transmission has different losses. My friend's Mitsu FTO with a Mivec V6 (AT) with a claimed output of 200 ps @flywheel. Did you know that when it got to the wheel, it was only 120 ps ! He was & ......

So how many % transmission loss was that ?

Engine dyno is usually not available to the public and owned by famous tuners, auto manufacturers and racing team (F1).

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/images/statusicon/wol_error.gifThis image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 640x480.http://ae86-parts.e-impulse.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/6.JPG

Thanks for the illustrations, bro. That's the one I'm talking about.

 

[dennisdreams]

Anyone knows Northern Garage Dyno machine is floor type of attach to wheel's type? thanks.

 

[wilm3]

I agree with what wilm3 said coz different transmission has different losses. My friend's Mitsu FTO with a Mivec V6 (AT) with a claimed output of 200 ps @flywheel. Did you know that when it got to the wheel, it was only 120 ps ! He was & ......

So how many % transmission loss was that ?

hahaha...no wonder our 4AG can follow behind FTO with claim...200bhp & 200Nm

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

I agree with what wilm3 said coz different transmission has different losses. My friend's Mitsu FTO with a Mivec V6 (AT) with a claimed output of 200 ps @flywheel. Did you know that when it got to the wheel, it was only 120 ps ! He was & ......

So how many % transmission loss was that ?

hahaha...no wonder our 4AG can follow behind FTO with claim...200bhp & 200Nm

I dare not say that ALL the FTO or V6 MIVEC have the same output but my friend was certainly disappointed when he saw the figure.

On the other hand, the performance of a car (on the road) sometimes does not reflect the Hp of the engine. Example: I was driving a friend's car that has a 185 ps on wheel with MT & I played with another firend's Civic 2.0 iVtec auto. The Civic is 100% stock; which has only a claimed Hp of 160 ps @ flywheel.

The surprising part was, the Civic could keep up with me bumper to bumper until the 180 km/h mark ! Only after that, it got left behind.

So I think Dyno figures is one thing but the actual performance could be otherwise.

If you guys is doubtful about my claim, find a 2 liter iVtec Civic, cucuk/test & see; better still if you know the driver or owner, so that you'll know if he really floored it.

 

[jackisblack]

huuiiiyooo...takut la tgk u all..i pkai svt standard..blom tau mau mod atau x..huhuhu..

Bump: to all sifu..mau tny..does some svt dont have any speedcut?mcm mna mau tau kalo engin tu xda speedcut?ble xplain...

Bump: to all sifu..mau tny..does some svt dont have any speedcut?mcm mna mau tau kalo engin tu xda speedcut?ble xplain...

 

[scottwrx]

all bt or svt have speed cut,
from what i know is bt speed cut happens at 190km/h, svt i not sure lah.
i u wanna know got speed cut or not, very simple only.. find a long straight road, test it out lah..
hehehe...
when speed cut happens, u will notice suddenly no power like release throttle then that is speed cut lah..
if u wanna remove speed cut then fix speed cut delimiter like apexi RSM, pivot etc.. etc....

Bump:

I dare not say that ALL the FTO or V6 MIVEC have the same output but my friend was certainly disappointed when he saw the figure.

On the other hand, the performance of a car (on the road) sometimes does not reflect the Hp of the engine. Example: I was driving a friend's car that has a 185 ps on wheel with MT & I played with another firend's Civic 2.0 iVtec auto. The Civic is 100% stock; which has only a claimed Hp of 160 ps @ flywheel.

The surprising part was, the Civic could keep up with me bumper to bumper until the 180 km/h mark ! Only after that, it got left behind.

So I think Dyno figures is one thing but the actual performance could be otherwise.

If you guys is doubtful about my claim, find a 2 liter iVtec Civic, cucuk/test & see; better still if you know the driver or owner, so that you'll know if he really floored it.

torque my fren torque... hehe...
coz what i know is bt standard about 160 Nm, civic is more than that...
thats only my opinion.. plz dun shoot me if i m wrong

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Bro 2Old2Rusty, the dyno figures can only tell you how much bhp your car has.... not realistic enough if you add-in chassis weight, drag, aerodynamics, downforce and other factors. I guess the new Civic 2.0 could keep up due to its superb aerodynamics and perhaps lighter weight than the "185ps car" you were talking about. Also, if the Civic is following you bumper to bumper, he is actually drafting behind you (slipstream) which greatly helps the new Civic to gain more speed.

Perhaps next time dont let the Civic tailgate you and ask him to take another lane... no drafting please

Always remember that power to weight ratio is the basic requirement if you are comparing between two (or more) cars on the road. This was why the lightweight (fully modded) Starlet could easily eat Skylines ("http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ZiSPNW6tg")

Btw, mind telling whats that secret 185ps car?

 

[nappx]

all sifu's spoken...so where all the monster here..mayb can have yum cha...at mamak stall

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

torque my fren torque... hehe...
coz what i know is bt standard about 160 Nm, civic is more than that...
thats only my opinion.. plz dun shoot me if i m wrong

True, true.... I've always prefered torque over Hp for everyday use.

Bro 2Old2Rusty, the dyno figures can only tell you how much bhp your car has.... not realistic enough if you add-in chassis weight, drag, aerodynamics, downforce and other factors. I guess the new Civic 2.0 could keep up due to its superb aerodynamics and perhaps lighter weight than the "185ps car" you were talking about. Also, if the Civic is following you bumper to bumper, he is actually drafting behind you (slipstream) which greatly helps the new Civic to gain more speed.

Perhaps next time dont let the Civic tailgate you and ask him to take another lane... no drafting please

Always remember that power to weight ratio is the basic requirement if you are comparing between two (or more) cars on the road. This was why the lightweight (fully modded) Starlet could easily eat Skylines ("http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ZiSPNW6tg")

Btw, mind telling whats that secret 185ps car?

You KNOW which car I'm talking about, bro. Hey, where have you been lately, bro ? Secretly upgrading your beast ?

 

[nappx]

how about ur afr...i'mean without..piggyback..e-damage...safc..2/neo..etc

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

how about ur afr...i'mean without..piggyback..e-damage...safc..2/neo..etc

:hmmmm: Who's AFR are you refering to, bro ?

 

[nappx]

:hmmmm: Who's AFR are you refering to, bro ?

anybody can give da opinion...mine..without any support piggyback..afr quite hight..11-12 afr...

 

[scottwrx]

anybody can give da opinion...mine..without any support piggyback..afr quite hight..11-12 afr...

same here, when i dyno last time AFR also around 11-13, never reach 14.7, only during idling can reach 14.6, but when vvt open.. wooooooo.......from 14.6 drop to 13 and even 12, not optimum leh...
susah mau reach 1 lambda lah..
got a fren tell me that using air-ram or e-turbo can improve the afr and torque, anyone tried before? coz i might try to use air-ram when i put on the subaru wrx bumper, by using the disk brake cooler vent direct to air filter box... may be can get higher torque and afr gua... only takut air masuk.. hehe...

i got a fren using SAFC, things only improve a bit.. a lot of ppl say that our toyota ECU is too smart to cheat.. any piggy back that can over ride and set the AFR?
different ppl say say different thing, some say e-manage, some it is useless

dunno what is the all the sifus opinion?