Manual Gear questions

[potato]

I have a few questions regarding driving manual transmission cars.

1.Would like to know if driving normal cars in spirited driving, is it possible to upshift at or near redline at lower gears, or redline can only be reached during final gear? I notice my rpm will blip up when i let go of the gas & depress the clutch when upshifting.

2.Would like to know will it hurt the gears while depressing the clutch and have the shifter to lower gear while the car is slowing down but still at a higher speed (clutch depress until car slow down to speed of that gear). I know it would hurt the engine & transmission if we downshift (letting the clutch go) if the speed is higher than what the gear suppose to be at, but would it still hurt if i did not let go the clutch?

3.Do the gear shifter smoothness depend on the speed of your car (clutch depressed)? I heard some old cars doesn't even allow you to downshift if the speed is too high.

 

[DanzEterna]

bro..u just got your 'P' licence ah? hehe..jk bro.
u got astro ah? u watch channel 734, discovery turbo. u will learn alot from it.

 

[93na]

ha ha ha!!!! it be ok for a few times la!!!! after that sure kena towing!!!!!!!!!

 

[DanzEterna]

93na...
where your thread go bro?
hows your SR3 coming along?

 

[potato]

No, but 1st time driving manual since driving school, anyway can answer my questions?

 

[ExceL]

1.Would like to know if driving normal cars in spirited driving, is it possible to upshift at or near redline at lower gears, or redline can only be reached during final gear? I notice my rpm will blip up when i let go of the gas & depress the clutch when upshifting.
You can upshift at any RPM that you wish (of course too low you will bog down, too high you will over rev your engine). What car are you driving?, I think the blip is cause from you depressing the clutch while still on the accelerator pedal.

2.Would like to know will it hurt the gears while depressing the clutch and have the shifter to lower gear while the car is slowing down but still at a higher speed (clutch depress until car slow down to speed of that gear). I know it would hurt the engine & transmission if we downshift (letting the clutch go) if the speed is higher than what the gear suppose to be at, but would it still hurt if i did not let go the clutch?
I dont think you'll cause wear or tear to the engine or gearbox, but that is not the way to drive & is dangerous.

3.Do the gear shifter smoothness depend on the speed of your car (clutch depressed)? I heard some old cars doesn't even allow you to downshift if the speed is too high.
I only experience this if one tries to downshift to first gear from a higher speed.

Disclaimer: I'm not a mechanic or an expert, hope it helps.

 

[weikeat90]

wat if i i shift to 3rd gear when at around 70kph to utilise the engine braking?? will it cause any harm?? i am driving 1985 stock ford laser.

p/s: i'm new to manual cars :D

 

[tofu_manic]

wat if i i shift to 3rd gear when at around 70kph to utilise the engine braking?? will it cause any harm?? i am driving 1985 stock ford laser.

p/s: i'm new to manual cars :D

u can blip the throttle a lil bit to match the revs, it wud be better, smoother

 

[weikeat90]

u can blip the throttle a lil bit to match the revs, it wud be better, smoother

but i am suppose to be slowing down at traffic light.. stepping on the pedal will juz make it move forward..

 

[ExceL]

but i am suppose to be slowing down at traffic light.. stepping on the pedal will juz make it move forward..

blip the throttle when your on the clutch.. in other words, maintain revs when you off load the engine.

Remember, cars have brakes for a reason.

 

[hachiroku clan]

blip the throttle when your on the clutch.. in other words, maintain revs when you off load the engine.

Remember, cars have brakes for a reason.

its same as heel toe-ing right? but in this case, its for slowing down..

btw, since were on this topic, out of curiosity, when we do engine braking, will it consume fuel?
the rpm goes up to keep up with the actual car speed but will fuel go into the engine?
does it differ in carb n efi engines?
btw im just another noobie

 

[weikeat90]

blip the throttle when your on the clutch.. in other words, maintain revs when you off load the engine.

Remember, cars have brakes for a reason.

blip means?? hehe..

ur "off load the engine" means pressing the clutch rite?? sorry.. too technical for me..

this is wat i do:

cruising 70 - 80 kph..
downshift to 3rd gear.. car slowing down..
then press the brakes..
press the clutch when speed is low enuf n swtich to free gear..
stop at traffic light..

any mistakes?? mine is carb engine..

 

[hachiroku clan]

blip means?? hehe..

ur "off load the engine" means pressing the clutch rite?? sorry.. too technical for me..

this is wat i do:

cruising 70 - 80 kph..
downshift to 3rd gear.. car slowing down..
then press the brakes..
press the clutch when speed is low enuf n swtich to free gear..
stop at traffic light..

any mistakes?? mine is carb engine..

doing so too often will result in premature transmission wear n tear..
usually engine braking is done in emergencies..
when going too fast then need to stop/ slow down but afraid the tires will lock, thats where engine braking is done.. to assist the brakes..

 

[weikeat90]

oh.. then i have to change this habit ady.. zzz..

 

[potato]

hi, question 1, it happens everytime i upshift, i'm quite sure the throttle is off when i step the clutch, i have asked few people driving same Proton (different model but similiar parts), they say it's normal when your clutch disengage ur engine suddenly becomes lighter thus the rpm blips.

But isn't this not so safe, since my case max power is around 5-6k, if people drive aggressive & shift at 5-6k, most likely they will lift off the gas & shift very quick, which will cause rpm to blip, it may blip over the redline. I've driven automatics before and they don't blip when it upshift maybe due to torque converter?

 

[Zeroed]

If its the Proton's Campro engine, the engine map itself is designed for the blip to happen. So no problems there.

And yes, changing into gears which is unsuitable (low gears at high speeds) for the vehicle's speed may damage / cause premature wear to the gearbox, even without releasing the clutch. This is because the synchromesh has to overwork itself to match the input/output shaft of the gearbox with the low gear's rotational speed, which will be very high at higher vehicle speeds.

This is due to the constant mesh gearbox design, you can google more about it if you wish but basically, yes, pushing the car into gear 1 even without releasing the clutch at high speeds will unnecessarily wear out the gearbox.

Heel and toe basically matches the gearbox' input and output speeds, which is why when one performs a heel and toe the shifter slides in easily without the need of using the synchromesh, but with low gears you still cant heel and toe to 12,000 rpm so its still not advisable.

 

[potato]

So it's programmed to blip, is there any reason for this? Also does the engine blip differently based on the rpm you upshift? As my case it can blip another 1k, so if i upshift near max power rpm, will it still blip another extra 1k (which obviously will shoot the engine over it's redline). If it does then it's a design issue.

Regarding Heal Toe, I though it's just a way to match the engine rpm against your wheel speed so when you let go of the clutch pedal you don't feel the engine "pulling" the wheels, and also helps reduce gear wear, but the wheelmesh thing doesn't gets affected by heeltoe until you release the clutch so blipping the engine rpm has no effect on the gear side until you release the clutch pedal and the engine connects with the clutch/gear/shaft/wheels?

If its the Proton's Campro engine, the engine map itself is designed for the blip to happen. So no problems there.

Heel and toe basically matches the gearbox' input and output speeds, which is why when one performs a heel and toe the shifter slides in easily without the need of using the synchromesh, but with low gears you still cant heel and toe to 12,000 rpm so its still not advisable.

 

[Zeroed]

I dont really know much about the campro engine. Just read/heard that it was mapped to blip. It blipped when I tested one too. Heh.

Ah the effects are not profound, but although the clutch is disengaged the remaining friction is still enough to roughly match the flywheel speed to the input shaft speed. Although I suspect this condition probably depends on the clutch' condition and gearbox design, but I have encountered smoother shifter gate engagements with heel and toe on problematic gearboxes with worn synchromesh.

 

[potato]

Want to know when slowing down by both braking & shifting to lower gears, do heel toe method improve or worsen the braking distance, or does it have no effects other than making the transmission smoother?

Also, is there any difference when shifting to neutral & release clutch pedal & stepping on clutch (on any gears)? Both are in Neutral state but when you release the clutch pedal does the clutch grip on the engine? Would it damage the gear if i have the gear in 1st gear while stepping on the clutch pedal?

 

[hachiroku clan]

heel toe is not done to shorten the braking distance, but to maintain momentum of the car..
for example,
1) if a car brakes, enter a corner and accelerate at the apex of the corner, it needs a slightly longer time to gain speed..
2) with heel toe, the toe is used to brake and slow down the car, and the heel is to keep the revs at ready (to match the current speed at the corner)..
easier to say, heel toe is to maintain the momentum of the car, and by braking, ur just 'killing' all the momentum that is needed to propel the car after a corner.. it also maintains your engine speed at its higher output range.. if ur car has a turbo, it is essential to do a heel toe in order to maintain the turbo spinning.. if not, when ur revs go too low, u might suffer from turbo-lag..

here's the answer to your 2nd question:

And yes, changing into gears which is unsuitable (low gears at high speeds) for the vehicle's speed may damage / cause premature wear to the gearbox, even without releasing the clutch. This is because the synchromesh has to overwork itself to match the input/output shaft of the gearbox with the low gear's rotational speed, which will be very high at higher vehicle speeds.