b4 this with jun3 cam i've run with chipped ecu and afc neo only...
for low comp ar....
now i ask my mech about this hondata.. n he take about rm3k with tuning...
coz i been worried high com with the knocking2 thing... make me scared....
About high cams
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b4 this with jun3 cam i've run with chipped ecu and afc neo only...
for low comp ar....
now i ask my mech about this hondata.. n he take about rm3k with tuning...
coz i been worried high com with the knocking2 thing... make me scared....
Ah lim or ah soon?? Mmm i've heard that name b4...
last i make it with Ah hua.... the small2 n pendek2 one... but stilll cute...
hehe
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well.. with a chipped ECU, the knocking could not be cured. The aggresive timing map for the B16A is a little too much for higher comp engines.
I'm not sure if anyone notices, but most chips floating around are B16a ones I think, because most manufacturers made them for P30, which is the B16A ecu. I've not yet seen a halfcut with a P72 chipped ECU, so I'm curious as to how do we know it's not a random chip? I think there's a thread on honda-tech where they downloaded mappings off chips, and find that they're.. absolutely RANDOM.
If you have a P30 or any obd ECU with a knockboard, you can use your laptop to monitor knock when you're driving. just datalog, then check for knocks.
Just curious... how smooth is your idle with jun 3 cams?
The B20B i tuned is using jun3 cams, and most people are thinking it's a stock cam because it idles like stock.:rolleyes:
Heck, most people I showed the car to doesn't even think it's a modified engine, until I pop open the hood and expose the quads..
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It has marvellous idle with the Jun 3 cams. I'm runnin on Jun ecu with Vafc2. Everythin ok except on low throttle opening during vtec stage. Misfirin abit but this is crucial stage for trackday. Not sure wether the fuel not enuf during that stage but my wideband sniff around 11nish. Some say it might be the stock compression on the B18C, but I got doubt. Could it be the cam timing or anythin else??:hmmmm:
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11ish is pretty rich.. you can get good power out with lesser fuel and advance, but VAFC not so flexible in that regard.
Misfiring probably caused by that too rich mixture.. plug fouls, fails to ignite sometimes.
Sometimes misfiring is just the cables.. god knows how long it took to find the misfiring on a friend's car.. new spoon cables, so didn't think it was that.... but finally swapped to stock cables, and the misfiring disappears..
Goes to show that sometimes, just sometimes, the god of troubleshooting throws a curve ball once in a while.
But for daily driving, stock idle is best.. I remember having lumpy idle once (due to another reason).. it sounds garang.. but power is not there.. it just sounds like those cars with big cams..And FC can throw out the window.
Since we have VTEC, I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter having lower cam duration for the pre-vtec lobes, and then having bigger duration on the mid vtec lobe. The best thing is, you just have the vtec start earlier if you find that the cam allows you to do that.
Misfiring probably caused by that too rich mixture.. plug fouls, fails to ignite sometimes.
Sometimes misfiring is just the cables.. god knows how long it took to find the misfiring on a friend's car.. new spoon cables, so didn't think it was that.... but finally swapped to stock cables, and the misfiring disappears..
Goes to show that sometimes, just sometimes, the god of troubleshooting throws a curve ball once in a while.
But for daily driving, stock idle is best.. I remember having lumpy idle once (due to another reason).. it sounds garang.. but power is not there.. it just sounds like those cars with big cams..And FC can throw out the window.
Since we have VTEC, I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter having lower cam duration for the pre-vtec lobes, and then having bigger duration on the mid vtec lobe. The best thing is, you just have the vtec start earlier if you find that the cam allows you to do that.
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Haiz...just found out the hard way. I've sent my car to another tuner who say he can cure the problem. He reset the cam timing (doing it like a secret thing) and never reveal the settings
. He also revert back to stock FPR to what he believe good for my set up. Problem still there and worse, theres lag in performance. Then he dare to say my compression not enuf
.
In the end I decided to take things my own way...yah I disconnected the VAFC2 and run the Jun ECU with the adjustable FPR . NO PROBLEM after that except for the rich mixture. Adjusted the FPR and the AFR its around 12. My next plan is to reinstall the Vafc2 without connecting the vtec wires. I'm sure the vtec controller is not working rite.:hmmmm:
. He also revert back to stock FPR to what he believe good for my set up. Problem still there and worse, theres lag in performance. Then he dare to say my compression not enuf.In the end I decided to take things my own way...yah I disconnected the VAFC2 and run the Jun ECU with the adjustable FPR . NO PROBLEM after that except for the rich mixture. Adjusted the FPR and the AFR its around 12. My next plan is to reinstall the Vafc2 without connecting the vtec wires. I'm sure the vtec controller is not working rite.:hmmmm:
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Although the VAFC2 can move the VTEC point, it's best if it is left alone. VAFC2 just cheat the MAP sensor, so if you get it to start earlier, you'd still be in the 'low cam' mapping in the ECU, which means the ignition and fuelling will a little low at higher loads (not by much i think), and you'd have to correct quite a bit.
If start later, it's okay though... not much difference there.
But if you think the VTEC controller not working right, then test it. there's a limited map trace on the VAFC2, and you can set it to link to the VTECin (or was is VTECout?). You can see exactly when the VTEC signal is sent out. (I forgot which is which, VTECin connected to the solenoid? or the pressure switch?, that one check in your VAFC manual.)
VAFC relies on the TPS, so make sure the TPS type is set correctly in the unit and at the throttle body. Idle, the TPS must be less than 0.5V (read from VAFC)
VAFC, simply reset to zero (no correction, and tune from there if you have wideband).
Hard to mess up with a wideband.
Oh, too low fuel pressure, the stock injector sprays like crap. Already saw it on an injector cleaning machine.
I like 2.5-3bar at idle, 3-3.5 bar without map reference (no vac hose connected/full throttle.
If using Jun ECU, don't tune too aggressively.. the aggresive ignition map might give you problems. Just tune the part throttle for better response and leave the rest alone.. If me, I'd even stick with the stock JUN ecu vtec point.
*when I use the term VAFC, it's VAFC2 for short.. too lazy to edit the 2 in.
If start later, it's okay though... not much difference there.
But if you think the VTEC controller not working right, then test it. there's a limited map trace on the VAFC2, and you can set it to link to the VTECin (or was is VTECout?). You can see exactly when the VTEC signal is sent out. (I forgot which is which, VTECin connected to the solenoid? or the pressure switch?, that one check in your VAFC manual.)
VAFC relies on the TPS, so make sure the TPS type is set correctly in the unit and at the throttle body. Idle, the TPS must be less than 0.5V (read from VAFC)
VAFC, simply reset to zero (no correction, and tune from there if you have wideband).
Hard to mess up with a wideband.
Oh, too low fuel pressure, the stock injector sprays like crap. Already saw it on an injector cleaning machine.
I like 2.5-3bar at idle, 3-3.5 bar without map reference (no vac hose connected/full throttle.
If using Jun ECU, don't tune too aggressively.. the aggresive ignition map might give you problems. Just tune the part throttle for better response and leave the rest alone.. If me, I'd even stick with the stock JUN ecu vtec point.
*when I use the term VAFC, it's VAFC2 for short.. too lazy to edit the 2 in.
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My VAfc has been handled by 2 supposedly expert with em and found nothing wrong with it. The problem with it is during vtec stage the correction displayed -20 even tho the mapping for the vafc has been set by both tuners. At that stage the AFR goes crazy fluctuating lean and rich just like engine misfires. I have the wideband LM1 and going to tune it myself. If time permits I will reset the cam timing too. O yah...my fuel pressure now is around 2.6 idle 3 without vaccum. I'm leavin the vtec alone and never touch it untill I got myself hondata.
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fuel pressure is stock B16A.. Type R is 3bar, 3.5 without VAC. If the Jun ECU for B18C, then you know what pressure to use. If the ECU for the B16A, stick with the stock regulator.
That's why I suggest set to 0, there should be no correction for all. if there is, then there's something wrong with it. You should be able to run VAFC with no correction, and there should be no changes after you installed the VAFC if the corrections are zero'ed.
That's also why I mentioned the VTEC point not matching with the VAFC. Usually just before VTEC, most aftermarket chipped ecu's all start dumping more fuel around 500rpm before VTEC (not exactly, but I'm just generalizing) that's why it's not so easy to tune VAFC with aftermarket ecu.. with the stock ECU it's different, as fuelling and ignition is a lot milder.
Try install back the VAFC (reset all settings before starting, set up TPS sensor,engine type (for the RPM readout), all basic initial settings (if there is more, I forget alrdy), then start engine) there should be no change in how your engine behaves before and after you install VAFC. If there is.. it's time to check the wiring, and a multimeter would be useful at that point.
It might be a long shot, but in addition to cables and etc. it's good to check if the injectors are any good at this stage, esp. if you've never cleaned them before. It's not common, but sometimes it's the cause of rough idling (or jerking).. because one of the injectors is not spraying properly. But this is like RARE.
Anyway, no matter what your tuner says, cam timing cannot be a secret because the timing marks are there. It's just a matter of you reading the timing marks on the cam. Google™ on how to read cam timing marks, and you can post here how much advance or retard your tuner put in for your intake or exhaust cam. Easy if you already have a cutout for the cam pulleys, not so easy if you have a full valvecover)
I think your tuner wouldn't make a mistake on degreeing a belt driven cam, unlike chain driven ones. Perhaps he was a bit overzealous on pushing his product, but hey, just want to earn more money what.. :P
If you're using your car for trackday.. who's your technical pitcrew for on the spot quick fixes? Don't tell me your missus.. :P
If/when you're using hondata, can set one of the functions as pit limiter. You can also have an in car cam, record your video, then overlay your run on the video like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeAh_v7DF-A
Should be fun to see where you braked early, and what line you took on the track, and where you dropped out of VTEC, and finally realize what close-ratio gearboxes are all about.
But some switches have to be wired manually for some of the features to work, and some need the p/s or a/c be eliminated, which is no problem for a track car.
That's why I suggest set to 0, there should be no correction for all. if there is, then there's something wrong with it. You should be able to run VAFC with no correction, and there should be no changes after you installed the VAFC if the corrections are zero'ed.
That's also why I mentioned the VTEC point not matching with the VAFC. Usually just before VTEC, most aftermarket chipped ecu's all start dumping more fuel around 500rpm before VTEC (not exactly, but I'm just generalizing) that's why it's not so easy to tune VAFC with aftermarket ecu.. with the stock ECU it's different, as fuelling and ignition is a lot milder.
Try install back the VAFC (reset all settings before starting, set up TPS sensor,engine type (for the RPM readout), all basic initial settings (if there is more, I forget alrdy), then start engine) there should be no change in how your engine behaves before and after you install VAFC. If there is.. it's time to check the wiring, and a multimeter would be useful at that point.
It might be a long shot, but in addition to cables and etc. it's good to check if the injectors are any good at this stage, esp. if you've never cleaned them before. It's not common, but sometimes it's the cause of rough idling (or jerking).. because one of the injectors is not spraying properly. But this is like RARE.
Anyway, no matter what your tuner says, cam timing cannot be a secret because the timing marks are there. It's just a matter of you reading the timing marks on the cam. Google™ on how to read cam timing marks, and you can post here how much advance or retard your tuner put in for your intake or exhaust cam. Easy if you already have a cutout for the cam pulleys, not so easy if you have a full valvecover)
I think your tuner wouldn't make a mistake on degreeing a belt driven cam, unlike chain driven ones. Perhaps he was a bit overzealous on pushing his product, but hey, just want to earn more money what.. :P
If you're using your car for trackday.. who's your technical pitcrew for on the spot quick fixes? Don't tell me your missus.. :P
If/when you're using hondata, can set one of the functions as pit limiter. You can also have an in car cam, record your video, then overlay your run on the video like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeAh_v7DF-A
Should be fun to see where you braked early, and what line you took on the track, and where you dropped out of VTEC, and finally realize what close-ratio gearboxes are all about.
But some switches have to be wired manually for some of the features to work, and some need the p/s or a/c be eliminated, which is no problem for a track car.
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I'm not sure how accurate those Aerospeed cam gears are. I pulled out the cam cover to find out that the adjustment was Ex +6 degree and In +10 deg. Adjusted it to 0 Ex +5 In. Now it runs better like the way it should. Vtec correction still disabled AFR on low throttle driving at 3-4k rpm adjusted to fluctuate 13-14. AFR Wide throttle 13-12.
Compare to the Type R cams, the Jun3 has a sweet spot from 4-9.5k rpm.
I will monitoring the AFR when I drive to Sepang this Friday and will adjust the vafc if theres a need to. I hope I can enjoy the Jun3 on the track.
Compare to the Type R cams, the Jun3 has a sweet spot from 4-9.5k rpm.
I will monitoring the AFR when I drive to Sepang this Friday and will adjust the vafc if theres a need to. I hope I can enjoy the Jun3 on the track.Dear All Sifu,
Do I have to change the metal casket to a thicker one ? in order to install a higher cam like Toda to avoid the piston hitting the valve.. ? My cyclinder head had been PnP & Skimmed by 1-2 mm. What is the chances for the piston hitting the valve by using the standard metal casket ?
thanks.
Do I have to change the metal casket to a thicker one ? in order to install a higher cam like Toda to avoid the piston hitting the valve.. ? My cyclinder head had been PnP & Skimmed by 1-2 mm. What is the chances for the piston hitting the valve by using the standard metal casket ?
thanks.
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If its not agressively overlapped it should be ok. If you are worried, ask the builder to 'clay' it to measure the valve to piston clearance during overlapping @ vtec stage. The head must be off then.
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1-2 mm?! phew... thats quite a lot to skim. And you didn't have any problems running the car even with stock cams? idle and timing wise... well i just think its quite a lot to skim thats all for a rebuild head. I would even consider changing to another head when i need to go above 1mm for skimming. Depends on which toda cams you're running, but I would still recommend clay the motor to find whats the maximum cam advance or retard that you can make before valve touch.
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