B16A upgrade to B20B

[J101]

maybe you should stick to b16a since ure doing sales. u might be clocking 100km per day easily running around in klang valley, anything outstation u need a robust engine. towing can be expensive outstation back to KL.

any combinations of brands on a 2 litre is fine with me. u say crower, i say ok. u say spoon i say ok. u say jun, i also say ok. even ppl say jun cams like to break, i also say ok koz mine didnt break and ppl still buy jun cams until to this very day.

if your b16a block finally give up one day, then the 2L would be a good and cheap option. dont forget to register it legally.

 

[HanafyEG]

agreed with J101, b16a is a robust engine and since u travel alot then u should stick to it..this doesnt mean b20b is not reliable but depends on the spec of ur modifications...

 

[pencalat]

mm that mean, even they have install he 2 liter block, the piston n conrod tak tahan ka?? ish... make me worry...

 

[J101]

u can start with a complete overhaul. seals, bearings and etc. then good machine work (oil line and etc) by your builder/mechanic. proper tuning by your tuner/mechanic. stick to the proper rev limit.

tahan tak tahan will be depending on your chosen parts. if you use forged lighten parts then it will be another story. wear and tear factor will be the same as any other b-series.

the rest is up to your right foot.

mm that mean, even they have install he 2 liter block, the piston n conrod tak tahan ka?? ish... make me worry...

 

[TanWeeLong]

so u means if use lighten forge lighten part will easily damage, right? i just buy the B20 block because my car want to overhaul. so instal B20 one time...i plan use all original part for the block

 

[pencalat]

thanx bro 4 the advice, rev limit i willset at 8.2k... quite fast oledi but can't tarik panjang like old 16a.. frustrating bro....

 

[TanWeeLong]

mean if more than 8000RPM will damage easily loh...

 

[J101]

i mean if you use aftermarket, the LIFETIME of the parts will be longer provided everything is built and tuned well. if the car is untuned or built badly also, same damage could happen both stock and aftermarket parts.

so u means if use lighten forge lighten part will easily damage, right? i just buy the B20 block because my car want to overhaul. so instal B20 one time...i plan use all original part for the block

 

[Grex_R]

B20b not cannot tarik???? i dun think so.. but with good modification & good setup with full EMS, been in 1 eg b20b rev up to 11,000 rpm, vtec on at 7,200 rpm. Imagine that engine still alive... hehehe.. but every month open up change bearings & piston rings.

 

[TanWeeLong]

ok....i go to ask the instal fee n all thing around 3.3K for using my block.....i did not oversize the piston , just all overhaul.......the price reasonable or expensive?

 

[J101]

race engines and street engines are 2 different thing.

i believe tanweelong was asking for a daily beater that helps him do sales and has reliability plus budget concerns.

B20b not cannot tarik???? i dun think so.. but with good modification & good setup with full EMS, been in 1 eg b20b rev up to 11,000 rpm, vtec on at 7,200 rpm. Imagine that engine still alive... hehehe.. but every month open up change bearings & piston rings.

 

[Grex_R]

Ya la... but if do up b20b of coz its xtreme d mah or else y do it....

 

[TanWeeLong]

J101, u r right...i driving daily n no enough budget.......i see my friend car oversize 86mm, after 2 year, the B20block had spoil. so need buy another block

 

[shiroitenshi]

J101, u r right...i driving daily n no enough budget.......i see my friend car oversize 86mm, after 2 year, the B20block had spoil. so need buy another block

Hmm.. not sure if you're talking about the same friend, but there's a guy with a B20B that was running fine for 2 years, then spoiled.. but not due to the problem with the block, but rather the timing belt bearing.. it jammed, belt skipped a few teeth, bent valves and a dead engine. But was it due to using 86mm?

It could happen to any other engine than just B20B, wouldn't it?

Another one that's closer to home ran more than 2 years, but blew due to overreving.

86mm is drivable, and possibly maintainable, and I haven't seen one with a critical sleeve failure yet.

Strange thing is, I'd have thought that the thin sleeves between the pistons would have failed first, because they're only like 2mm (or was it less? I forget) thick..

So please raise your hands if you've seen failure at that point..

I'm curious, because what I usually see is usually a hole in the piston (detonation? or pre-ignition?), broken rods, and cracks at the lower sleeve area (which in my opinion is almost always caused by that broken rod swinging loose).

Which reminds me.. K20A pistons in a B20B has very high compression.. I think it's more likely to kill it due to the high comp than anything else.

So I think the question that needs to be asked are:

A) Is our ron numbers a good representative of our anti knock index, are they a constant, or changes with temperature and fuel additives from various oil companies?

B) what ignition timing and how it relates to high comp. Should it be retarded enough to compensate for the high temps that we occasionally see on the road? You'd get lower dyno readings in the afternoons that way, and can the owner be satisfied with such a low hp reading?

 

[hattech-v]

i think i had a similar problem with that guy... belt skipped few teeth n now the engine rip... haha

 

[hattech-v]

i'm considering timing chain now... haha

 

[J101]

"I'm curious, because what I usually see is usually a hole in the piston (detonation? or pre-ignition?), broken rods, and cracks at the lower sleeve area (which in my opinion is almost always caused by that broken rod swinging loose)."
i have seen it real life and many times. the worst one was the conrod struck through the side of the block near the gearbox. hole in the piston and hole on the block are some serious detonation issues which also i have seen before.

"Which reminds me.. K20A pistons in a B20B has very high compression.. I think it's more likely to kill it due to the high comp than anything else."
definitely. the craze about putting a k-series piston is due to personal requirement for more displacement and fast-achieving power at the same time this malaysia-boleh is hurting the engine itself.i had a friend that did a k-series piston inside a b20 which chipped his stock sleeve like a biscuit.

"A) Is our ron numbers a good representative of our anti knock index, are they a constant, or changes with temperature and fuel additives from various oil companies?"
we gotta be rational when it comes to all these. if you start to use semi slicks and racing fuel to work, then it wouldnt be a street car anymore innit? to get the most power and to put as much traction to the ground its a personal choice among individual. theres nothing wrong with the fuel, its the tuning that is not suitable for a whole day, all year drivability. how many tuners that uses knock and egt values to tune a car? rare. when they see a good a/f, jump the ignition(oh yeah baby..more torque)...and a nice dyno graph. at the end o fthe day, reliability and some upcoming-spun-bearings issues are to be awaited. then they blame the bearings lar, blame the stock rods lar....blames.

"B) what ignition timing and how it relates to high comp. Should it be retarded enough to compensate for the high temps that we occasionally see on the road? You'd get lower dyno readings in the afternoons that way, and can the owner be satisfied with such a low hp reading?"
in the 1st place the person should understand what parts are meant to be used on the streets that doesnt require racing fuel and high ignition just to support the engine setup and a big smile on the dyno. thats a good question, they wont be satisfied with the low hp reading when they have spent too much on the un-necessaries.