supercharging an engine

[VectorX2]

dear sifus

is it possible to install a supercharger with a new intake manifold without tunning the ecu or installing a piggyback, new fuel lines, and etc. i mean just install the supercharger and the intake manifold and the belting as well. would the the engine even run?

i am referring to a campro engine

thx for any comments

 

[shiroitenshi]

dear sifus

is it possible to install a supercharger with a new intake manifold without tunning the ecu or installing a piggyback, new fuel lines, and etc. i mean just install the supercharger and the intake manifold and the belting as well. would the the engine even run?

i am referring to a campro engine

thx for any comments

Although I have not tried a supercharger, in theory, it would start, but you won't be able to drive it once the supercharger pushes in more air.

Reason being that more air need more fuel to meet/slightly exceed the stoichtometric ratio. It gets a little bit more complex when you start considering engine compression and ignition timing, but overall, you still need to get the engine tuned for it to run correctly.

 

[VectorX2]

what would be the most minimal modification i would need to do if i were to install a supercharger? kinda tight on budget, i am planning to slowly progress on the installation...

 

[shiroitenshi]

Supercharger has a few types, the rotrex, which looks like a turbo turbine, but the exhaust side, is a pulley, the twin screw, and the Roots type, which is like the twin screw, but different design internally... They look like a normal intake manifold, but bigger. You need to run it off the crank pulley, but our crank pulley usually used by a/c, power steering and alternator.. Not sure how you'd manage to install it on an everyday car with all three accessories, so maybe someone who's done it before can help.

The supercharger boost is linear unlike turbos, and there is no possibility of overboost unless you start playing with pulley sizes, so I would think that only a retune of the ECU would be enough.

That's all I can help with since I don't have much experience with superchargers.

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

yes the engine would start and run....

but not for long maybe...because as far as i knew,campro engine was already running lean...that might getting worse when u boost the engine without proper tuning,,,




if not mistaken there was an affordable piggyback that can be used on campro...forgot..emanage or something like that...

 

[VectorX2]

Is it possible to 'feather' the supercharger so that it will only force in smal ammount of air until I complete the modification and bring the supercharge to live?
Or is it more wise to install a piggyback first before I move on to others?
Can S4PH/S4PE internals withstand the boost lets say around 20 psi

 

[arturo]

feather? from my understanding no. since the amount of air sucked in is proportional to the engine rpm since the SC gets its power directly from the engine...

 

[tks]

I don't mean to be rude or brash, but seriously...If you're planning to add any form of FI to your NA engine, please oh please have the budget to do so before you even begin. Because skimping on something for a project like this, even if its temporary, normally = blown engine.

Bone stock, straight outta the factory, no way the S4Px will take 20psi.


Search the forums, there are many many pages on Bolt On turbo/supercharger discussions, or if you're really interested, drop by powerzone in glenmarie to have a chat with them. They've done a Gen-2 (and others) before, no idea if any problems surfaced, but they (somewhat) do know what they're on about when it comes to these things.

Cheers! :santaclaus:

 

[VectorX2]

thx for the comments =D
i tink i know what to do next =D

 

[shiroitenshi]

seriously? do let me know if you do it, i'm curious how you're going to run the pulley on a gen 2. Just a picture will do. At minimum, an ecu remap would do, if it's minor, but 20psi is not minor, depending on compression, might need lower comp pistons, and sure as heck bigger injector. If 7-8 psi, maybe can get away with stock injectors with higher fuel pres, depending since some cars come with bigger injectors that they actually need, but 20psi? This is not small cc kancil engine we're talking about. Sorry, but looks like you might have to save up some more or go lower with your hp goals.

In superchargers, bigger pulley = lower boost. Smaller pulley higher boost, size percentage increase roughly should decrease pressure respectively, but it's not 100% since there is also the peak efficiency factor to consider, since like anything that pushes air or liquid, there is always a point of peak efficiency and points of diminishing returns. Hope your mod works out. Would be nice to see some different methods of modding for power.

 

[tks]

seriously? do let me know if you do it, i'm curious how you're going to run the pulley on a gen 2. Just a picture will do. At minimum, an ecu remap would do, if it's minor, but 20psi is not minor, depending on compression, might need lower comp pistons, and sure as heck bigger injector. If 7-8 psi, maybe can get away with stock injectors with higher fuel pres, but 20psi? This is not small cc kancil engine we're talking about. Sorry, but looks like you might have to save up some more or go lower with your hp goals.

found this thru google images. RM16k setup, unless the price has changed...

 

[VectorX2]

before i continue, i want to clarify something, when people mention 0.4 bar does it means the boost pressure is 1 bar + 0.4 bar = 1.4 bar = 20 psi

or do they mean just 0.4 bar = 5psi

i am aiming for 0.4 bar boost pressure

i am going to do more research before going to this mod, hope that they are more comments coming in

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

if u talking about atmosphere pressure yes it does mean 1.4bar...

if absalute pressure then it would be 0.4 if i remember correctly...



correct me if i'm wrong..forgot middle school physic already...

 

[shiroitenshi]

Usually gauge pressure reads absolute pressure, not atmospheric. Some boost meters got the lower than 1bar atmospheric portion, so can't say all of them don't read atmospheric. MAP sensors read atmospheric pressure. less than 1 bar atmospheric is also known as vacuum on cars, though this is not exactly true (lower atmospheric actually), but the term so widely used, it's hard for me to not use it.. :P (e.g. vacuum log/tube/canister on ITBs.)

1 bar atmospheric means zero boost. :).

Don't usually hit 1 bar atmospheric that on NA tho, unless the CAI is routed to the front bumper face, directly, not the hose + open pod inside. usually 900+mBar on most normal cars, unless there's massive restrictions on the intake to the MAP sensor.

the supercharger part I've seen before, VectorX2, I'm wondering how they drive the supercharger pulley. without removing a/c or power steering. the picture you've shown shows a LONG belt lol.. I wonder how's the maintainance on those is.. AFAIK, longer belt = easier to strech = shorter life...

 

[afatt]

can my proton wira 1.6, install this supercharge? how much the cost. can anyone help me?

 

[VectorX2]

the supercharger part I've seen before, VectorX2, I'm wondering how they drive the supercharger pulley. without removing a/c or power steering. the picture you've shown shows a LONG belt lol.. I wonder how's the maintainance on those is.. AFAIK, longer belt = easier to strech = shorter life...

by looking at the lay out of the pulleys, i think that it would be possible to guide the belt like an L shape starting from the alternator pulley by hinging a guide roller above and before the alternator pulley, what ya guy's tink?

and can 0.4 bar boost be achieved through only ECU remapping? is the siemens ECU possible to be remapped?

 

[speed2horizon]

Like POMEN^GTR said.... CAMPRO IS ALREADY RUNNING LEAN BY STOCK!!! Did a wideband and it shows LEAN figure... U can try to check ur plugs and see if they are clean... Lolz...So, every 0.1 bar off boost will reduce a hours of your engine life span...

Already Campro is well known for it's crank problem... Increasing pressure without managemnet will increase the combustion chamber temperature and increase the knock frequency... Till u have everything complete, do it one shot...

 

[VectorX2]

hmm... if thats the case, what would the full list of things i would have to look out for when doing this mod?

-the super charher unit itself (i tink i am going for a denso SC14)
-custom intake manifold
-engine management (is it better to go for reflash/piggyback/standalone)
-fuel injectors
-air cooling system (do we need a cooling system for the supercharger as well?)
...

 

[speed2horizon]

hmm... if thats the case, what would the full list of things i would have to look out for when doing this mod?

-the super charher unit itself (i tink i am going for a denso SC14)
-custom intake manifold
-engine management (is it better to go for reflash/piggyback/standalone)
-fuel injectors
-air cooling system (do we need a cooling system for the supercharger as well?)
...

-Not precisely customized intake manifold. It's rather a connection from ur SC outlet to inlet intake manifold.

-to me, I'll recommend a management that is able to control external injector. Sang uses injector controller.

-external injectors. But I chosen to second the external injectors is dduento it's simplicity in tuning and it does not disturb the base map of ur ecu.

-suitable pulley tensioner set with customized bracket for the SC n pulleys involved n throttlebody relocation.

-suitable length belt.

- activation device. Depends on how u wanna activate the magnetic clutch. Sang uses an ON/OFF switch. I'd prefer something like shiftlight controller/RSM to trigger it at a preset rpm. So, when ur engine reaches a preset activation rpm, it'll activate and pull. Something like a VTEC, but pulls much stronger.

- Intercooler, it's up to the pressure u're forcing in. As reference, Sang didn't use an intercooler.

- Now, it's time to think of the SC oil. Do u want to join them with the engine oil, or u want to have an external reservoir??? There are pro n cons on either way. I'd prefer to run it with external reservoir n oil cooler. Just incase if it leaks, it'll not disturb the engine lubrication supply. But u need to have 2 maintainence schedule which is something difficult for undiscipline ppl like me. But, it has less thing to du during the installation.

- on top of all mentioned, u NEED to get an enthusiast mechanic that is willing to seat down and put himself into ur shoe, understanding ur problem n find the solution.

- final part, after instalation... U need to decide on which tuner to go for.

 

[VectorX2]

lets see if i boost around 0.4bar, do i need an intercooler?

is it advisable to have the super charger full time running? even when the engine is idle...

lets say that i dun fabricate my own intake manifold, i force air into the IAFM intake manifold, is that even possible?

what are actually external injectors?

wat kind of oil does the sc unit needs?