emanage tuning and installation

[TheSquee]

Wideband tuning or dyno tune ? :) which is better actually overall

 

[afatt]

which one is better for use. e-manage @ SAFC?

 

[speed2horizon]

hi sifu-sifu.... i planned to tune my 4G93T v emanage blue..... do i need the injector harness...?
and if i change anything tat affect the afr i need to retune...?

Anything that affect the air flow and compression ratio requires retune.

Wideband tuning or dyno tune ? :) which is better actually overall

Both have advantages and disadvantages for both. If ur tuner does it with datalogging, and u find a really long empty road, then u'll be able to achieve the max rev on tune. But u won't get the figure. And tunning process is highly influence by weather.

Dyno is not affected by any condition. Can achieve maximum from the set up. But still, no matter how close the dyno machine simulate on the road condition, it's still not on the real road. But very close if done on load dyno compare to inertia dyno.

which one is better for use. e-manage @ SAFC?

Emb 256 tuning point, safc 16 point. Emb can go for ignition timing, safc xdak. Emb requires laptop for tuning, safc sender boleh mari if know. Emb can use auxiliary fuel injection, safc xdak. Emb low profile, safc shinning blink blink.

Both also tipu ecu.

Which is better, u judge urself.

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

With the use of our Optional Injector Harness and the software, the unit has the ability to control an additional 16x16 injector duty cycle map and the controls for adding up to 2 additional sub-injectors. If the Optional Ignition Harness and the software are used the unit has the ability to control a 16x16 ignition timing map. All of the above maps can also be map-traced in real-time as well.

get this from web, above 2 harness is optional. anything change on the afr is recommend to retune to get max performance la.

Does it mean without the injector harness, the unit cannot alter the injector duty cycle? Hence cannot use uprated/larger injectors?
Without injector harness, we can only alter the MAP/MAF signal to tune the fuel mapping?

 

[speed2horizon]

Does it mean without the injector harness, the unit cannot alter the injector duty cycle? Hence cannot use uprated/larger injectors?
Without injector harness, we can only alter the MAP/MAF signal to tune the fuel mapping?

Can la brader....

When u open the injector setting in the emanage support tool, u can key in the injector size. And the AFR will be formulated according to the new injector setting.

However, there's a limit how big/small the injectors can be resize... 150% of original size based on the ECU.

When u use injector harness, u control the auxilary injectors.

The mapping style also different. For the injectors on the runner(original position), u only alter the Air flow correction map via +/-.

For the auxilary injector, it's injection pulse in ms that u are keying in. U are not alrearing, u are controlling.

 

[afatt]

someone can help me, berapa kos untuk sebuah e-manage + installation + tuning (dyno)
. if i got e-manage, manual tuning kena buat juga?
@ engine 4g92 cam kembar.

 

[speed2horizon]

I know RM1500 for mellinium complete package.

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

Can la brader....

When u open the injector setting in the emanage support tool, u can key in the injector size. And the AFR will be formulated according to the new injector setting.

However, there's a limit how big/small the injectors can be resize... 150% of original size based on the ECU.

When u use injector harness, u control the auxilary injectors.

The mapping style also different. For the injectors on the runner(original position), u only alter the Air flow correction map via +/-.

For the auxilary injector, it's injection pulse in ms that u are keying in. U are not alrearing, u are controlling.

ohh... ok thanks bro... relief for me.. haha... coz i jz bought mine minus the injector harness... i'll get it hooked up and see whats what...

 

[alongfreddy]

hello,
how can i get SMT advance diagram(output)?i've a problem to install it coz' dont have any diagram about it.tq

 

[GEFORCEXTREME]

Anything that affect the air flow and compression ratio requires retune.



Both have advantages and disadvantages for both. If ur tuner does it with datalogging, and u find a really long empty road, then u'll be able to achieve the max rev on tune. But u won't get the figure. And tunning process is highly influence by weather.

Dyno is not affected by any condition. Can achieve maximum from the set up. But still, no matter how close the dyno machine simulate on the road condition, it's still not on the real road. But very close if done on load dyno compare to inertia dyno.



Emb 256 tuning point, safc 16 point. Emb can go for ignition timing, safc xdak. Emb requires laptop for tuning, safc sender boleh mari if know. Emb can use auxiliary fuel injection, safc xdak. Emb low profile, safc shinning blink blink.

Both also tipu ecu.

Which is better, u judge urself.

Ignition timing, on a 4g92p SOHC, what can be tune? Tune to advance or retard it? Isn't turning the distributor does that?
And what is meant by auxiliary fuel injection?

---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------

I like the fact that we can play with the SAFC ourself to experience tuning ourself and also because it is cheaper. But seems like the emanage blue is much more powerful.

For moderately modded NA car or lightly modded BOT car, is the SAFC really losing so much? Which features are the most important in a BOT car.

---------- Post added 12-15-2010 at 12:00 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was 12-14-2010 at 11:42 PM ----------

Also, speed2horizon, see your post about using the correct injectors. I asked about injectors awhile in the another forum, they say changing injectors don't affect the fuel injected? Have I been fooled?

 

[speed2horizon]

Ignition timing, on a 4g92p SOHC, what can be tune? Tune to advance or retard it? Isn't turning the distributor does that?
And what is meant by auxiliary fuel injection?.

The one we turn on the distributor is call Static Ignition Timing. The one we tune in the emanage/ecu is called Dynamic Ignition Timing.

On static, we turn 1 degree towards the exhaust, Say we're advancing the ignition timing by 5 degree throughout the entire RPM range. U'll feel nice when it's idle and revving up to 3000RPM maybe. But on 3000RPM onwards, it starts to knock. But u think the minor knock is acceptable... So, u continue revving it to 5000RPM, then it knocks severly... So, u decided to retard back by 5degree. But on the low end u fell like the rabbit in the DURACEL before battery change...

Here comes the dynamic ignition... U can tune the ignition timing advance and retard based on the combination of throttle position and RPM.(in emanage)

Hope that clears u up...

I like the fact that we can play with the SAFC ourself to experience tuning ourself and also because it is cheaper. But seems like the emanage blue is much more powerful.

For moderately modded NA car or lightly modded BOT car, is the SAFC really losing so much? Which features are the most important in a BOT car.

Without the wideband o2 and datalog, how u gonna tune it urself..? Just simply bantai only...? Then might as well keep it stock...

But different ppl have different opinion on SAFC and emanage.

 

[GEFORCEXTREME]

The one we turn on the distributor is call Static Ignition Timing. The one we tune in the emanage/ecu is called Dynamic Ignition Timing.

On static, we turn 1 degree towards the exhaust, Say we're advancing the ignition timing by 5 degree throughout the entire RPM range. U'll feel nice when it's idle and revving up to 3000RPM maybe. But on 3000RPM onwards, it starts to knock. But u think the minor knock is acceptable... So, u continue revving it to 5000RPM, then it knocks severly... So, u decided to retard back by 5degree. But on the low end u fell like the rabbit in the DURACEL before battery change...

Here comes the dynamic ignition... U can tune the ignition timing advance and retard based on the combination of throttle position and RPM.(in emanage)

Hope that clears u up...



Without the wideband o2 and datalog, how u gonna tune it urself..? Just simply bantai only...? Then might as well keep it stock...

But different ppl have different opinion on SAFC and emanage.

Yeah, I complained of no power, then Alwin helped me to advance it. Under 3k is ok, 3-5k is totally crap, can hear knocking sound. But after 5k, it reduces again. I think I read somewhere that when the rev is high, there is less pressure so it can reduces knocking.

By the way, turning the distributor 1 deg or mm is equal to 5 deg on crank?

 

[speed2horizon]

Also, speed2horizon, see your post about using the correct injectors. I asked about injectors awhile in the another forum, they say changing injectors don't affect the fuel injected? Have I been fooled?

Whoever says that to u, slap 9 7 him... To answer that, check ur plugs now. then find 240cc injectors from mivec, then plonk in... run 2 days. then take out the plugs and check again.

Ok, to answer u... And this will definitely cost u a teh tarik + nasi lemak. Haha... Our OEM ECU is programmed in a chip. So, in the program, there's definition for every single parameters, sensor, etc etc. Then, on the interface, there are tables to control fuel, ignition, acel, decel, etc etc bla bla bla and so on... we call maps.

Ok, come to the fuel map. The injection is control by keying in AFR. However, these AFR is not AFR we want to achieve from the O2 sensor. It's a formulated value based on the preprogrammed injector size on the definition.

Ultimately, the ECU will have output of injection pulse in terms of miliseconds. So, comes back to the injector size. SAY, IF... U have a bottle upside down. Open the cap for 1 seconds and let the water flow out. Now same bottle size with BIGGER OPENING CAP and have it reverse. Open the cap for 1 seconds also and let the water flow down. Which one do u think will have more water displaced..?

U answer this, u answer ur question.

Provided, IF the ECU is running on close loop. Where the ECU will target for 14.7 AFR with the assistant of the NOT SO ACCURATE Narrowband O2 sensor. ECU will auto correct the fuel injection pulse itself to ahieve AFR 14.7. But this will only happen when ur ECU is idling or cruising below 4000RPM.

Yeah, I complained of no power, then Alwin helped me to advance it. Under 3k is ok, 3-5k is totally crap, can hear knocking sound. But after 5k, it reduces again. I think I read somewhere that when the rev is high, there is less pressure so it can reduces knocking.

By the way, turning the distributor 1 deg or mm is equal to 5 deg on crank?

In our standard OEM ECU, there's already a standard ignition timing map. So, there should be the main reason why there's no knock at top end. Because on standard ECU, normal practice is retard at top end to prevent knock. Reason could be too much retard on standard ECU mapping. So, there are advantages of those piggyback that's able to alter the ignition timing.

I was just giving an example on the ignition timing. How much u turn on the distributor/CPS can be determined by using timing check light. Turn and see the changes.

 

[GEFORCEXTREME]

Cool info. Thanks sifu.

 

[speed2horizon]

Cool info. Thanks sifu.

Dun simply call sifu... I'm not sifu. But ur teh tarik n Nasi Kemal when wanna belanja me????

 

[GEFORCEXTREME]

When ar? Anytime lor. How much can a nasi lemak and teh tarik cost anyway. :-)

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

Provided, IF the ECU is running on close loop. Where the ECU will target for 14.7 AFR with the assistant of the NOT SO ACCURATE Narrowband O2 sensor. ECU will auto correct the fuel injection pulse itself to ahieve AFR 14.7. But this will only happen when ur ECU is idling or cruising below 4000RPM.

does this mean any piggyback is also useless when the system is running in close loop??.. coz whatever AFR we key in, it will automatically rewrite by the ecu trying to achieve 14.7 AFR??...

 

[shiroitenshi]

Isn't there a limit to how much the ECU can add or remove fuel to compensate based on narrowband o2? AFAIK, the ecu won't remove fuel past a certain percentage, because it's a failsafe against a defective 02 sensor. the stock ecu only has leeway for correcting for temp and air mass/pressure differences.

Wondering how the new emanage ultimate works.. seems like people saying it's a lot better than the blues, but have never had the chance to mess with it yet.

 

[speed2horizon]

does this mean any piggyback is also useless when the system is running in close loop??.. coz whatever AFR we key in, it will automatically rewrite by the ecu trying to achieve 14.7 AFR??...

Basically, I'm not too sure at what RPM and TPS does the close loop stop working... Most stop working for TPS>40% and RPM3500 whichever comes first.

But with the stock O2 sensor, I doubt it can do much. The O2 sensor can't even give AFR reading. It can only gives Air Fuel condition. So, the signal is either Lean/Stochiometric/Rich. No actual reading.

If we plonk in a O2 meter to the narrowband, the reading achieved is just an average formulated figure by the Meter. It's inacurate.

Isn't there a limit to how much the ECU can add or remove fuel to compensate based on narrowband o2? AFAIK, the ecu won't remove fuel past a certain percentage, because it's a failsafe against a defective 02 sensor. the stock ecu only has leeway for correcting for temp and air mass/pressure differences.

Wondering how the new emanage ultimate works.. seems like people saying it's a lot better than the blues, but have never had the chance to mess with it yet.

I would say it's the limit of the hardwre on the engine itself. Like NA MAP SENSOR won't read anything +'ve by right. That's why piggyback are meant to cheat them.

Regarding the autocorrection, there are a a mappings in the ECU that reacts according to the AIT Sensor, Coolant temperature etc etc. It's not actually correction. But it's more of a preset map.

Example when knock detected, the ignition will retard. But the retard will not be up to safe figure. But it's preset how much to retard from factory. This may not be entirely true for all car/enging/make. But at least that's what I know off... If u extract the bin file from the ECU chip, u'll see all those maps.

EMU is something like HKS FCON, ApexI Power FC and other advance piggy. It only uses part of the maps in our ECU and bypass another half... Like ignition map/afr map are all self define. That explain why EMU can increse REV limit and EMB can't because Fuel Map and ignition map of EMU is based on the standard map in ECU and EMU Fuel/Ignition map stand by itself.

Sorry for not being able to answer it in more detail, as that's all I know off. For more details and deep question, I'm still learning.

 

[shiroitenshi]

But with the stock O2 sensor, I doubt it can do much. The O2 sensor can't even give AFR reading. It can only gives Air Fuel condition. So, the signal is either Lean/Stochiometric/Rich. No actual reading.

If we plonk in a O2 meter to the narrowband, the reading achieved is just an average formulated figure by the Meter. It's inacurate.


I would say it's the limit of the hardwre on the engine itself. Like NA MAP SENSOR won't read anything +'ve by right. That's why piggyback are meant to cheat them.

Regarding the autocorrection, there are a a mappings in the ECU that reacts according to the AIT Sensor, Coolant temperature etc etc. It's not actually correction. But it's more of a preset map.

Example when knock detected, the ignition will retard. But the retard will not be up to safe figure. But it's preset how much to retard from factory. This may not be entirely true for all car/enging/make. But at least that's what I know off... If u extract the bin file from the ECU chip, u'll see all those maps.

EMU is something like HKS FCON, ApexI Power FC and other advance piggy. It only uses part of the maps in our ECU and bypass another half... Like ignition map/afr map are all self define. That explain why EMU can increse REV limit and EMB can't because Fuel Map and ignition map of EMU is based on the standard map in ECU and EMU Fuel/Ignition map stand by itself.

Sorry for not being able to answer it in more detail, as that's all I know off. For more details and deep question, I'm still learning.

Actually it's detailed enough.. but power FC is advanced piggy? Last powerFC I installed didn't even require the stock ECU.

I've played a little with piggys, but from what I noticed from the mapping, it's more like it cheats the map sensor into reading a higher or lower load part of the stock ECU map. Not sure with the newer version, never actually touched piggys once I went standalone. I'd have thought that to bypass the ECU mapping entirely, the piggy must control the injectors and ignition directly.

Anyway, for honda closed loop systems, here's a nice tech article from hondata.
Tech - Closed Loop

30% limit to ECU fuelling adjustments based on closed loop it seems.. other makes, dunno.. I only study one make kepala pening already.