Protect yourself from Employer bully

xbalance2002

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sifu fstr & bro cvkit17,

this way boss still not canibalism or dictatorship end of the day he/she treat you like a king not job or nothing to do end month still pay you.

above this does not came from chinamen work place...
 

vr2turbo

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That is why if the supplement document or contract is a void contract, she just has to follow what is stated in the original letter.
When get job damn good T & C, then after confirm, boss add new terms like that die loh.....:banghead:
 

gunnerzz

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These sort of nonsense are applied by various company from various sector.
Some mega company are a bit more clever to not disturb the employment contract/t&c.they donit by imposing riduculus
kpi system that has most conponent that are not within yr control.when u study it closely u will understand that its one way
to reduce the number of employee.Employer dont care jut for the employee its a painful process.

We Malaysian are just not that educated abt labour law.We just want to get up every morning,go to work,come home,sleep,
continue to end of month till get salary.
We have no desire to learn the stuff in between.
Oh wai....Malaysian have one big desire and are well known to do this.Malaysian are well known to talk nonsense when somehtin
shit happen.Sad really....
I thought we are independence.....
 

vr2turbo

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These sort of nonsense are applied by various company from various sector.
Some mega company are a bit more clever to not disturb the employment contract/t&c.they do it by imposing riduculus
This mostly happens with small company. Big MNC will already have their hand book in place. Letter of offer will mention the main things only, and will mention for additional T&C please refer to company's hand book.....:smokin:
 

FVel

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I created this thread so that we can share knowledge and experience of how to protect ourselves from bad employers who will rip us apart to their benefits.

I received this letter from a friend



My friend signed the letter as she is not informed or educated about contract law. Moreover, many employee would sign it in fear of losing their job. This letter is to superseed some clause in the offer letter. My friend is already working in the company for quite some time.

I find that the new clauses are very ridiculous. It is a total rip off to the employee to benefit the employer alone.

I believe many people would think that once they've inked their signature, there is no turning back. That is NOT the case. A contract can be deemed void under the following:

1. Fraud
2. Coercion
3. Undue Influence
4. Misinterpretation
5. Unlawful

Void contract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the case above, the contract or this new agreement can be deemed void because it is under undue influence. The company, as an employer, has power over its employee and used that power on them to agree on the contract. (Correct me if I were wrong, as I am not a lawyer). Also, I feel that the last clause (Prohibit its employee to work for another company of same field within 12 months) is a violation of rights. Some companies might prohibit their employee from working with companies that have business dealing with them only.

Thus it is important to equip ourselves with some knowledge of contract law to protect ourselves from nasty human being.
The last time I checked, I think you're covered under the Employment Act if you are RM1,500 or below. I could be wrong so you should contact the Labour Office to be sure.

You are not covered above RM1,500 and below RM5,000 but the act has been amended for this salary range such that the Labour Office will provide you assistance to enforce the terms your Contract of Service (CoS).

Above RM5,000 there is no coverage under the Emplyment Act or assistance from the Labour Office and the enforcement of the terms is based on what you agreed on in the CoS. In the event of a breach, it is then actionable in the normal courts as a civil proceeding just like any contract. Of course if you are covered under the Act, you can bring the action at the Labour Courts which is less formal, faster and probably with assistance from the Labour Office itself free of charge....if you qualify. Call them and check your options.

Getting to the meat of your friend's problem problem, I don't have all the facts other than what you mentioned in this post and the role of her employer leading up to all this disagreement is not clear.

In any case, the law assumes, that as normal adults, you are capable of negotiating and making your own deals based on your relative bargaining positions with the other party. The law will not not play nanny and hold your hand to stop you from entering into contractual arrangements, good or bad. To do so will be mean imposing their will on your freedom to contract and that is not a good law and it won't work. You bargain and work out your own terms with the employer and once agreed and inked on the dotted, it becomes your CoS.

I am assuming your friend can read, write and understand English. If you can do all those things, having an intimate knowledge of contract law is not necessary and irrelevant. If you understand what you are signing then you understand the terms and its implications.

6 months notice is unusual for a position of a general clerk....but it is not unlawful. Again this goes back to each party's responsibility for having made their own deals.

I don't think you can successfully push the angle of undue influence, coercion, misrepresentation and what not. Generally, you have to show exceptional and unique circumstances for that to carry.

It's a general clerk position and its not like it is hard to find a similar position elsewhere if the terms of this employer is not favorable. In that sense, it is hard to argue coercion or undue influence that forces you to sign the contract. Merely saying that you needed the money or the job or that you want to stick around because you have been with the company for a longtime is not coercion or undue influence. Sorry.

Bottom line, upon reflection she made a bad deal for whatever reason and I sympathize she is now unhappy. Hopefully, she will learn from this experience. Being a little bit more shrewd, less accommodating and having a firm idea on what you want in the job market tends to minimize these kind of issues. Remember, employers choose you but you also choose them. In many cases people get bullied or manipulated only because they act like sheep and accept everything that is shoved out to them. I think what is true with everything in life is no one will gift you stuff on a silver platter and people will not automatically look out for your best interest. You look out for yourself.
 

cvkit17

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The last time I checked, I think you're covered under the Employment Act if you are RM1,500 or below. I could be wrong so you should contact the Labour Office to be sure.

You are not covered above RM1,500 and below RM5,000 but the act has been amended for this salary range such that the Labour Office will provide you assistance to enforce the terms your Contract of Service (CoS).

Above RM5,000 there is no coverage under the Emplyment Act or assistance from the Labour Office and the enforcement of the terms is based on what you agreed on in the CoS. In the event of a breach, it is then actionable in the normal courts as a civil proceeding just like any contract. Of course if you are covered under the Act, you can bring the action at the Labour Courts which is less formal, faster and probably with assistance from the Labour Office itself free of charge....if you qualify. Call them and check your options.

Getting to the meat of your friend's problem problem, I don't have all the facts other than what you mentioned in this post and the role of her employer leading up to all this disagreement is not clear.

In any case, the law assumes, that as normal adults, you are capable of negotiating and making your own deals based on your relative bargaining positions with the other party. The law will not not play nanny and hold your hand to stop you from entering into contractual arrangements, good or bad. To do so will be mean imposing their will on your freedom to contract and that is not a good law and it won't work. You bargain and work out your own terms with the employer and once agreed and inked on the dotted, it becomes your CoS.

I am assuming your friend can read, write and understand English. If you can do all those things, having an intimate knowledge of contract law is not necessary and irrelevant. If you understand what you are signing then you understand the terms and its implications.

6 months notice is unusual for a position of a general clerk....but it is not unlawful. Again this goes back to each party's responsibility for having made their own deals.

I don't think you can successfully push the angle of undue influence, coercion, misrepresentation and what not. Generally, you have to show exceptional and unique circumstances for that to carry.

It's a general clerk position and its not like it is hard to find a similar position elsewhere if the terms of this employer is not favorable. In that sense, it is hard to argue coercion or undue influence that forces you to sign the contract. Merely saying that you needed the money or the job or that you want to stick around because you have been with the company for a longtime is not coercion or undue influence. Sorry.

Bottom line, upon reflection she made a bad deal for whatever reason and I sympathize she is now unhappy. Hopefully, she will learn from this experience. Being a little bit more shrewd, less accommodating and having a firm idea on what you want in the job market tends to minimize these kind of issues. Remember, employers choose you but you also choose them. In many cases people get bullied or manipulated only because they act like sheep and accept everything that is shoved out to them. I think what is true with everything in life is no one will gift you stuff on a silver platter and people will not automatically look out for your best interest. You look out for yourself.
Employment act fully protects laborer who earns less than 1.5k per month. However, some terms still apply to most employees. Yes we can go into a contract at our will provided there is an offerer, and offered, and a consideration. Not to mention that it has to be legal. However, a signed contract can be void in other way than a breach of contract. So even if we have signed something, it does not mean that it is legal and valid.

The case I highlighted is not that straightforward i.e. 1 set of paper, signed by both parties. After the employment, many conditions were changed to favor the employer. I believe most employee would not dare to object because they are afraid of losing their job. I'm not a lawyer, but to me it seems that the employer is abusing his position to get the deal. I hope any lawyer with this kind of experience can enlighten me.

Well luckily my friend had resigned and successfully left the company without obeying the terms stated in the letter and without giving any compensation.
 

vr2turbo

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Like you mentioned, the most important is the first letter of offer. That one is most binding, any other amendment after employment can be contested...
 

FVel

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Like you mentioned, the most important is the first letter of offer. That one is most binding, any other amendment after employment can be contested...
Any contract, even the first one, can be contested if it is unlawful. It doesn't mean that one or another is more or less binding.

As I said, there is nothing stopping parties from subsequently making new deals or terms to alter an original agreement. If the terms are not unlawful, and enter into in good faith, with full agreement at the time of signature there is nothing to suggest that it is not a good contract.

Just because terms are more onerous on one party does not necessarily suggest that the courts will set aside the contract. In most cases, courts are reluctant to interfere in contracts if no impropriety is involved.

The lesson here is to be careful of what you are signing.

You do often hear more of abusive employers, because most people airing grievances are employees but I think what is missing and often not given sufficient coverage is the subject of abusive employees.

Just speaking from personal experiences, I have seen my fair share of bad apples amongst employees from insubordination, forging MCs, poor performance (company deadwood), assault, stealing. What people forget is that the law is also there to protect employers and in many cases a problematic employee is very costly to a company.
 

vr2turbo

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Any contract, even the first one, can be contested if it is unlawful. It doesn't mean that one or another is more or less binding.

As I said, there is nothing stopping parties from subsequently making new deals or terms to alter an original agreement. If the terms are not unlawful, and enter into in good faith, with full agreement at the time of signature there is nothing to suggest that it is not a good contract.

Just because terms are more onerous on one party does not necessarily suggest that the courts will set aside the contract. In most cases, courts are reluctant to interfere in contracts if no impropriety is involved.

The lesson here is to be careful of what you are signing.

You do often hear more of abusive employers, because most people airing grievances are employees but I think what is missing and often not given sufficient coverage is the subject of abusive employees.

Just speaking from personal experiences, I have seen my fair share of bad apples amongst employees from insubordination, forging MCs, poor performance (company deadwood), assault, stealing. What people forget is that the law is also there to protect employers and in many cases a problematic employee is very costly to a company.
Yup, agree. I have a fair share of working in the Union force as well as in Management later on, so normally I weigh the differences from both sides.
I too have problems with some staffs, some from my division, and some not, but still my Jap boss have a way with them....:driver:
 

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