ICE question...

phizer

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im very new in ICE so i got few question to ask.dont wack me ok.
now i got a cheap kenwood HU, 1 pair of alpine comp set with xover and 1 pair of 10" sub but no amp.Is a 4channel amp enough to power all or do i need another amp for sub only?do i need a x-over?
so plzz advice.....thx
 

Bert

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yes, a 4 channel amp will be sufficient to pwoer it all for a start. Later on if the ICE bug hits hard, you can wither use the 4 channel to power the frotn full active and another amp for the sub, or you can bridge the amp to 2 channels for the front or midbass or tweeters or whatever the new install is going for.
 

appleyard

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Originally posted by phizer@Jan 19 2005, 19:52
im very new in ICE so i got few question to ask.dont wack me ok.
now i got a cheap kenwood HU, 1 pair of alpine comp set with xover and 1 pair of 10" sub but no amp.Is a 4channel amp enough to power all or do i need another amp for sub only?do i need a x-over?
so plzz advice.....thx
you dont need a xover as you have some for your comps and most amp has built in xover.

start with your budget. what is your budget actually? do you really want to get a 4 channel forst or get a monoblock first? if you are into spl then get a monoblock. those comp can be powered by your HU temporarily. if you want a all in one solution get a 4/5/6 channel amp. try and find at least 100-140w RMS amp.
 

phizer

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thx for all your reply.i think i will get a 4 channel amp.
can a 'cap ayam' brand amp do the job?(low budget)

can tell me what channel to connect to which speaker?i dunno how to calculate RMS n watt.i notice my 10" sub written 4ohm that's all.for my 6'5 comp i think it says 120w 40 rms.

i also have a rockford preamp with 4-band graphic eq with subwoofer output.do i need this?

thx for your reply again. :D
 

lks

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i'm new here and please don't wack me either.

IMHO, you need the eq as long as it is not very noisy when you turn the volumn up. Home hifi does not encourage the use of eq as this device normally raise the noise level. but in ICE, location of speakers and total volumn in the car cabin are compromised and eq is required to fine tune various frequencies level.

"cap ayam" amps is not recommended as because they are normally noisier and having shorter life. most branded car amp should have no problem driving a 4ohm load. it just depends how loud you want your sub bass to be.

normally, you do not need to calculate the RMS watt. you can just buy any branded amp whatever big power it can deliver, and whatever high sound quality it can achieve, up to the limit of your budget. the amp won't fry the speakers under normal circumstances, even when it clips.
 

Bert

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Phizer,

From what I agak based onyour postings, you amy need to use your pre-amp as your HU would most liekly have only 2 preouts. So for sub etc.. unless you get a Y-cable or the amp supports internal pass through, you only can play 2 channels.
 

pisces

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Originally posted by lks@Jan 20 2005, 15:31
i'm new here and please don't wack me either.

IMHO, you need the eq as long as it is not very noisy when you turn the volumn up. Home hifi does not encourage the use of eq as this device normally raise the noise level. but in ICE, location of speakers and total volumn in the car cabin are compromised and eq is required to fine tune various frequencies level.

"cap ayam" amps is not recommended as because they are normally noisier and having shorter life. most branded car amp should have no problem driving a 4ohm load. it just depends how loud you want your sub bass to be.

normally, you do not need to calculate the RMS watt. you can just buy any branded amp whatever big power it can deliver, and whatever high sound quality it can achieve, up to the limit of your budget. the amp won't fry the speakers under normal circumstances, even when it clips.
I used to have a set of EQTs in my car but I decided to remove them after I heard a system so real and natural without ant EQs.
Now I enjoy my system much more without any EQ.
You mentioned that the amp won't fry the speakers under normal circumstances, even when it clips.
Now I would like to ask, what is a clip signal??
I can tell you now, clipped signals will fry any speakers in no time, esp at an extended of play with that signal.
 

lks

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ops, i made mistake again in my statement. yes, speakers will be fried if amp is allowed to clip for an extended period. so the statement should read like this: "the amp won't fry the speakers under normal circumstances, even when it clips for a short period". and i would like to add this - "if this happen - frying speaker's voice coil within a short period of amp clipping, then quality of the amp or/and the speaker is very questionable!"

regarding EQ, in my opinion, changes made to the original signal is EQing. probably using avtive electronic EQ adds complication but in a pasive x-over, when one uses resistor to achieve -6db result is also considered EQing. it is just that the -6db is affecting the whole frequency range of the x-over frequency (say hi pass at 2KHz then -6db from 2KHz all the way to 20KHz) while active EQ allows us to choose specific frequency. IMHO, in ICE, one needs to do EQ and make changes to the frequency response so that the desired result, i.e. tonal balance, can be achieved as the designers of the speakers (x-over) or/and amps do not know the environment, i.e. the car. hence, ICE sound tuning is so important.

however, i agree with you that adding one single extra element in the chain of an audio system will deteriorate, to certain extend, the quality of the sound. and it is not suprised that you hear real and natural sound when EQT is removed and your installer must have done a very good job. we can do tuning without an active EQ but with the limitation on time, money, relatively lower quality components, and relatively inexperienced and impatient installers and owners, active EQ may be the solution.

just my opinion.
 

pisces

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Firstly, crossovers and EQs are totally differnet equipment doing totally different jobs.
EQs are used to "adjust" the overall frequency spectrum within your whole playback system.
The spikes and dips in the respective frequencies as indicated via the RTA are adjusted using the control gain knobs in the EQs to achieve a as-flat-as-possible response curve.
Crossovers are used to feed the respective frequencies into the respective drivers.
A cut off (high pass) frequency of 2khz at 6db slope means the crossover will start to cut off the frequency at 2khz and the level at 4khz (next octave) is 6db lower.
And for your info, my installer did not do any tuning for me, I did it my way!! :lol:
 

artnet

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aiyo, u taiko out there...
ppl all scare kena wack by u guys..
so sometimes... u know la...
talk nicely... ehehe..

i'm not pointing anyone in this topic ah...
jsut sometimes other topics, other forum...
ppl not expert bah... tells something not true
but then kena fire kao kao... pity neh...

i kena shoot b4 also. ahahaha.
 

pisces

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Originally posted by artnet@Jan 24 2005, 23:00
aiyo, u taiko out there...
ppl all scare kena wack by u guys..
so sometimes... u know la...
talk nicely... ehehe..

i'm not pointing anyone in this topic ah...
jsut sometimes other topics, other forum...
ppl not expert bah... tells something not true
but then kena fire kao kao... pity neh...

i kena shoot b4 also. ahahaha.
artnet, don't get me wrong.
Flaming ppl here is never my intention at all.
I don't think I had used any "strong" words here.
I am sorry if I offended any ppl here.
All this while, I consider this as an healthy discussion.
 

alvin4946

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Originally posted by pisces+Jan 25 2005, 09:16 --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pisces @ Jan 25 2005, 09:16 )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-artnet@Jan 24 2005, 23:00
aiyo, u taiko out there...
ppl all scare kena wack by u guys..
so sometimes... u know la...
talk nicely... ehehe..

i'm not pointing anyone in this topic ah...
jsut sometimes other topics, other forum...
ppl not expert bah... tells something not true
but then kena fire kao kao... pity neh...

i kena shoot b4 also. ahahaha.
artnet, don't get me wrong.
Flaming ppl here is never my intention at all.
I don't think I had used any "strong" words here.
I am sorry if I offended any ppl here.
All this while, I consider this as an healthy discussion. [/b][/quote]
haha... I understand...

sometimes I feel that Pisces and Bert just really wanna make ppl understand the true and correct theory behind.

But, their objective is simple and positive - to make u happy, and they'll happy as well.

That's why sometimes ppl will misunderstood...

It's the same theory like how the father and son. The reason of the father to scold the son is just simple - to teach him and make him understand what is wrong and what is right. But, sometimes the son might just wish to try out something he never do. So, the son will prefer to ignore instead of accept.

But when the son realise that he did something wrong, he will recall his father and what his father taught him before. Then, he understand, and he realise that what his father said is CORRECT.

No harm, no offence, just my 2 cents. :)
 

normality78

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actually its more on each person mindset. If the person is "open hearted" and willing to learn type, he/she will not be offended whn plp trying to point his/her mistake out. this is whr maturity comes in and count. We are here all for learn. so we do make mistake and accept points out.

so do i sound feirce this time? whahahaha. this is what i always end my posting with "wahahaha" coz each person reading post way is diff so some might take jokes as offend. sigh...!!

ok. finish "ye shou" talk. back to ICE. wahaahahaha
 

tron07

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Better kena scolding (flaming is a better word acctually) here then get sotong out side by those unscrupulous installer out there....

Acctually EQ is use properly would not colour the sound, it just adjust the sound affected by the harsh car environment. If the car's frequency response is at around 60z, it will automatically boost the sound at 60Hz, so we can use the EQ to slightly lower it so its "flat".
 

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